cleaning out veg patch - weedkiller?

[Attitudeless Badger]

We have a patch or around 15m2 for tomatoes, salad, raspberries and other such fripperies.  In the last couple of years, this has been hand-weeded when being dug over, prior to planting, but inevitably we get a lot of regrowth.

My question to the panel is whether it is a good idea to just attack it with weedkiller, as it'd probably clear out the weeds, but I would imagine it may damage the fertility for this years crop.

[Palinurus]

I try to remove as much as possible while digging (on the allotment), it gets better each year but takes time. I'm not big into the organic thing, I just like an excuse to dig and potter around doing some weeding and don't want to have to buy weedkiller.

Next time I get a manure delivery I was planning to just spread it all over the tops of any empty growing areas, covering any weed growth, and just leave it all winter. Someone down at the allotment told me it works well- and he does have less weeds than me. But he's got one of those really neat plots so he's probably down there seven days a week, so that may have nothing to do with it.

I've got four areas for annual crops and one of them is covered each year, that helps, and it's very easy.

[Melbourne12]

You've got a number of choices.

• After you prepare the ground, you can cover it with weed-suppressant membrane (or carpet or corrugated cardboard for the true allotment look).  That'll keep most weeds from growing, although you may find a spaghetti of bindweed roots when you lift the covering, which will need to be dug out.
• As above, but leave the membrane pegged in place and plant through small holes cut in it.  Works well for tomatoes, less so for raspberries which need to throw additional canes.  I've seen it done for salads by pegging strips of membrane with a narrow gap between them.
• Don't cover, but when the weeds start to show, hit them with a flamegun.  Just scorch the new shoots, and repeat the process until you're ready to plant.  Flameguns are expensive to buy, though, if you don't already have one.
• Allow the weeds to grow, and spray them with glyphosate (Roundup) about a fortnight before you want to plant to allow time for the weeds to die down.  You can spray right up to the day of planting if you want to, since glyphosate is inactivated on contact with soil.

[hairyhippy]

Cover and dig. 's the best way. The first few years are the worst. Never let a weed see a sunday. etc. etc.

[Attitudeless Badger]

Cheers folks.

As the ground has now thawed, is it too early to start digging/covering yet?

[hairyhippy]

Little and often.

You may want to let it dry out a little if you have a fine sandy soil, but otherwise get going.

[David Martin]

Get a half dozen chickens. Build the run over the veg patch. Wait.
Free eggs and one weeded and fertilised veg patch, followed by lashings of chicken curry.

..d

[andygates]

Weedkiller never seems to damage the fertility of my bloody weeds. 

Glyphosate is safe to use, it'll kill the current stuff and is neutralized by weathering so it should be fine. 

Don't use Pathclear!

[Si]

Glyphosate is safe to use, it'll kill the current stuff and is neutralized by weathering so it should be fine. 

Just wondering if anyone knows if this stuff really is going to get banned or was it just a "ruled by Brussells" Daily Wail scare story in the end?

I did use it to innitially clear mine.  Kills the growing stuff but not the seeds in the ground so when you dig afterwards you will still get some weed coming up.  These days I prefer digging out the roots by hand as you have to dig the soil anyway to make it friable - still get the problem with dormant seeds though.

[Melbourne12]

Glyphosate is safe to use, it'll kill the current stuff and is neutralized by weathering so it should be fine. 

Just wondering if anyone knows if this stuff really is going to get banned or was it just a "ruled by Brussells" Daily Wail scare story in the end?

I did use it to innitially clear mine.  Kills the growing stuff but not the seeds in the ground so when you dig afterwards you will still get some weed coming up.  These days I prefer digging out the roots by hand as you have to dig the soil anyway to make it friable - still get the problem with dormant seeds though.

I can't find the link now, but it was indeed a scare story.

Whichever department it is in the EU maintains a list of weedkillers in four categories.  IIRC, the first category is intended for things that are going to get banned pretty soon, so you'd better start switching to alternatives.  The second category is for those which are under serious review.  The third is where there are some concerns, and the fourth is for those known to the authority but where there aren't serious questions.  Which isn't to say that there might not be next year.

Glyphosate is in the fourth category, but the fact that it's on the list at all alarms some people, and can be used as propaganda by the more fervent of our organic brethren.

[rae]

Dig. 

It is vastly satisfying digging beds in an overgrown vegetable patch, good for you, and grows you a pair of shoulders. 

[hairyhippy]

and a friend for life at the chiropracter / osteopath 

Seriously don't put too much on the spade at once. It sounds obvious but ti took me quite a while to work this one out 

[Wowbagger]

A tip from my dad: "Use a woman's spade." I think that's the technical term foe a small one. That way, you get little sods.

[hairyhippy]

I have two allready thank you very much.

[julianbramley]

I seem to remember covering with carpet is a no-no as chemicals can leach from it into the soil. I have three little raised beds which I have smothered in compost over winter and nothing has come through, however obviously as soon as I turn it then all the dormant seeds will get crackling again.

[ludwig]

I would be happy to cover with carpet or something similar especially if you have something like brambles which are very hard to dig out or control chemically. I can't believe that something that we all have in our houses ie carpet is going to leach enough bad stuff into the soil which then has to be taken up by the plant to do us any harm. If it can leach out of the carpet it will probably leach out of the soil as well anyway. Glyphostae is fine but you'll soon have the weedseeds germinating. Theres nothing better for small weeds than a good hoe. It also aerates the soil around the plants. In the morning of a hot day is good so that the weeds die quickly. Little and often though is the key

[rae]

Seriously don't put too much on the spade at once. It sounds obvious but ti took me quite a while to work this one out   

Just read this, and I have to ask why.   I have the most ginormous Bulldog digging fork, metal strapped all the way up, and it takes massive bites out of the soil.   The "active face" of the current bed does look like a small JCB has been at it.  Lift it up, bounce the earth through the tines, then pick the roots off the surface.   It is the bending down for the bloody roots that gets me, not the digging. 

[hairyhippy]

I can keep going for longer with smaller lumps.

[julianbramley]

Just in case anybody still wants to use carpet as mulch
Carpets and the organic garden - Frequently Asked Questions - topical advice