Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => Topic started by: Tigerrr on 13 February, 2018, 07:15:29 am
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Most 'cyclists' tend to sneer a bit at e bikes. I am a fan, my home-brew conversion was excellent when I hurt myself and I now have 2 of them, as well as road and recumbent.
I am down in Costa Blanca. Lots of bike bikes - they are the main form of transport in Calpe it seems. Spoke with cycle shop owner. He said he sold 400 last year from one shop and is opening another. 'The e bike is saving the industry' he said, now that mTB is over, and road bikes have peaked.
I would have thought perfect for the UK - but they are still a rarity, I wonder if that will change.
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'The e bike is saving the industry' he said, now that mTB is over, and road bikes have peaked.
I'm all for saving the industry, so good. I'm wondering about MTB being over and road bikes having peaked, though: my general impression is that purchasing power has peaked and nobody has as much cash to spare on new bikes. My favourite patisserie recently reduced its opening hours and the range of goods on offer, and when folk stop eating cake the world is about to end.
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I don't notice many people on here 'sneering' at e-bikes. They clearly fill a need and seem more attractive to some than mopeds, probably because they are less regulated (so far).
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I'm a fan, especially when I encounter one in a bastard headwind on a Friday night. I do think a clampdown is inevitable though as there seems to be more and more de-restricted throttle only conversions about.
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Historically: the first cars were exhibited at bike shows, then grew in popularity to warrant their own laws, shows, dealers, magazines, etc.
In the 60s and 70s mopeds were very popular, and cycling declined (from a revenue perspective) to the point that Cycling (Weekly) was briefly renamed Cycling & Mopeds. Again, the two drifted apart as mopeds became more regulated in a similar manner to motorbikes (and became more motorbike-like).
So what happens with E-bikes? Will they stay as premium utility bikes? There seems to be quite a trend for E-MTBs. I was surprised by the number of E-bikes and electric conversions at the Semaine Federale last year.
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There is a small bike shop in York (tends to specialise in high-end MTB stuff) that is discovering a demand for tricked-out e-MTB machines.
These aren't for people wanting to ride a leisurely trail, they are hard-core machines with a motor to boost the climbs.
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Like most things, it depends how you use them. For enabling people who can't otherwise cycle to get out and about, or allowing people who can only ride slowly to keep up with their mates on a social ride, great. Or with a trailer as an alternative to a car for hauling big loads. So they seem a great thing for utility cycling. I'm not sure about more sporting riding though. Leaving aside hidden downtube motors and the like, more appropriately dealt with under 'doping', I'm thinking of mamil types using them to boost their strava records. Not that I care about people 'cheating' to gain a kotm, but there's plenty of stupid (aggressive, dangerous) riding on eg Bristol-Bath Railway Path as it is (particularly mamiloid commuters), and more power can only make that worse.
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To borrow a well timed post from Fuzzy:
Steps one to 3 from the end of the PDI process for an ICE trike. The final 3 steps are fitting accesories specific to the customer needs. This particular trike is a Shimano Steps/ Alfine beast with one handed controls. I are an happy bunny :D
Seems absolutely a good, beneficial, highly appropriate, all round acely use of e-cyclery.
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Evans HQ has re jigged its showroom, giving a bigger floor area. The reason behind this is so they can fit lots of E bikes in. It's a booming part of the market I reckon.
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One less car, sweat-free commute, enabling the disabled, bonkers off-road fun... it's all good. :thumbsup:
The ebike revolution is well underway in places where people cycle. It's taking its time in the UK, which is understandable, as the only people willing to spend real money on bikes here are Cyclists, most of whom don't need the assistance most of the time.
I don't think they're doing too badly. I probably see eBikes about as often as Bromptons on the roads of Birmingham, and the Bromptons are a relatively recent development. Used to be that you'd have to go to London to see one.
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So what happens with E-bikes? Will they stay as premium utility bikes?
I recently had a go on a sub-10kg folding e-bike. I can't say any more than that at the moment as it's not officially launched yet, but if I were still commuting, I would want one very badly.
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I like to think every rider that passes me on the road has e-assistance. The more e-bikes there are, the easier this assumption is to make.
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I am in negotiations to swap my Circe Helios frame for a STEPS one. This is instead of getting a second car. I think a lot of cargo bikes and other child transportation replace a second car. E-assist makes utility cycling with children an option, even in rural and hilly areas.
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I've been in Tel Aviv this week, there are substantial numbers of electric folding (or at least, 20") bikes here. Seems completely haphazard, but no particular issues mixing with traffic and pedestrians, which was interesting.
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I'm about to convert my wife's bike. She has an infrequent short-ish commute (3km-ish), has bad asthma and often has to carry substantial luggage.
She initially wanted a scooter, but I really don't like the on-road route on two wheels, whereas on the e-bike, she can use the (rather nice) bike path.
It'll probably end up costing the same converting her bike as it would cost buying a secondhand scooter.
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E-bike racing is now a thing, apparently.
http://road.cc/content/news/237244-apparently-professional-e-bike-racing-going-be-thing-now-video
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E-bike racing is now a thing, apparently.
http://road.cc/content/news/237244-apparently-professional-e-bike-racing-going-be-thing-now-video
Keeping to the pedelec power and speed limits! I can see it working for mountain biking, but surely with professional road racers it'll just end up becoming a competition of who can carry the least electrickery possible?
Unrestricted electric recumbent racing could be interesting. An exercise in how much you trust your tyres... :demon:
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I have had three ebikes; a converted Orbit, an off-the-shelf Woosh (horrible) and another off-the-shelf Oxygen eMate. The latter is superb and is my commuter of choice.
The Orbit is also very good and I had a battery built up for the conversion that guarantees a long range - by ebike standards of about 70 miles at legal speeds. The Oxygen's battery isn't as strong, but it is 2.5 years old, so is waning. It does however still propel me along at speeds that would attract Plod's attention if s/he knew a bit more about ebikes, and that's on setting 6 of 18. It would go a lot faster on the higher settings - but range would suffer greatly as a result.
The only thing I can say negative about ebikes is that you have to be very wary - even more so than normal - of motons. They simply don't expect most cyclists to be travelling along at the speed I travel at. The Oxygen has very good brakes and they are needed from time to time. Other cyclists can be a bit iffy; 'You're cheating!' being a common refrain. 'Cheating whom?' I usually reply and ask them to show me the rule book.
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Some e-bikers think they are cheating. Once a cyclist drew level with me and started chatting on the Bristol-Bath Railway Path. After a few minutes he said "I'm going to cheat now!" I gave him a puzzled look, he pressed a button and whizzed off in a cloud of electrons.
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I think it was fboab who wrote a post with a comprehensive (though by no means complete) list of things that count as cheating, including many which were contradictory.
Sure, electrons are cheating, but so is training, or riding a lightweight bike, or having the right amount of air in your tyres, or using clipless pedals, or being male, or using an off-road bike, or drafting another rider, or... <fx: fade out>. Personally, I think the whole point in bikes is cheating; it's how we avoid having to do Running. And really, if you're not actually breaking the rules of a race, who cares?
'Cheating' doesn't bother me in the slightest when used in a tongue-in-cheek way like that. It's like the accusations of taking it easy[1] or lying down on the job - or indeed cheating - that you get when you ride a recumbent. But I'm aware that some e-bike users - particularly those with disabilities - can take offence at it, so I'd avoid using with someone I didn't know.
(Barakta's response to being accused of cheating is to give a hand gesture that moves from the BSL for <electricity> into a V-sign as she shoots past and disappears up the inevitable hill. Seems fair.)
[1] This one's a bastard, as you're then obliged to continue making it look easy until you disappear from sight, which inevitably involves climbing a hill.
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Have we got an Ebikes 101? Choice of motor type/position, best battery chemistry (I'm guessing Lithium ion), recommended brands, brands to avoid, that sort of thing?
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Have we got an Ebikes 101? Choice of motor type/position, best battery chemistry (I'm guessing Lithium ion), recommended brands, brands to avoid, that sort of thing?
That would be helpful. I'm thinking of doing one of my solos on the cheap once I get the tandem back. Some suggestions would be helpful.
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My wife has had an E bilke for over 10 years. The first was a second hand ZAP with a knurled gear running on the tyre. She had it because she is partly disabled and weak so pedaling up hill or in a headwind was not possible. It ran OK but had sever limits on torque and speed. At that time some folk were a bit unpleasant about seeing folk on a electric bike. like it was unsporting. About 2 tears ago I bought her a relatively cheap new one. I HATE IT ;-). It clse to charge. I ride in the peak and somtimes on the Tissinton, Monsul and High Peak trails. They all have quite a few for hire. What make me thonk they are great is that on a really cold not to good a day a gentlemen came grinding past me on an electic. I could give him a good number of years and I'm 63. The thing is, he passed me (too fast for ) with a cheery grin saying "its much better than being indoors". It has convinced me as I get older and less capable its a real way to continue the fun.
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Saw one of these contraptions in Chiswick earlier - or a very close relative, as the seat appeared longer and fatter, and the battery seemed to be under the top tube:
https://www.electricbikeplus.co.uk/electric-bike-selection/all-electric-bikes/cloud-73-electric-fat-bike/
Looked to be in use by a dad + child on the back.
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Have we got an Ebikes 101? Choice of motor type/position, best battery chemistry (I'm guessing Lithium ion), recommended brands, brands to avoid, that sort of thing?
Oxygen make good bikes. I have an older generation one that is really well put together and has a decent component specification. Woosh make several types, but their older models are carp. The one I had fell to pieces around me. Front wheel drive bikes distribute the weight well, if you have a frame-mounted battery. The Oxygen has RWD and if I have a criticism it's that the rear end is rather heavy. My Woosh was mid-drive, but it's not fair for me to judge that drive position as the bike was awful.
There are lots of conversion kits on the market, but my recommendation is to buy one sans battery and then have a chat with Jimmy at BGA Reworking* who will make up a battery to suit your budget and needs.
*No connection other than as a satisfied customer.
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Have we got an Ebikes 101? Choice of motor type/position, best battery chemistry (I'm guessing Lithium ion), recommended brands, brands to avoid, that sort of thing?
That would be helpful. I'm thinking of doing one of my solos on the cheap once I get the tandem back. Some suggestions would be helpful.
'On the cheap' depends on the definition of 'cheap'. There are kits on eBay very cheap. What you want to avoid is one that needs an external speed sensor. Not only is that a faff to wire up, but it isn't the best technology either. Most decent kits' hubs have built-in speed sensors. You also don't want a direct drive hub, but a geared one. Direct drive is cheap, but very old hat. You'd be looking at at least £400 to get a decent kit & a not-so-decent sized battery. £100 more would get you a much better battery and longer range.
Although in Germany, I like the look of this company's (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/ysbattery-2012?_trksid=p2047675.l2563) kits, without actually having used one, I add. The bottom bracket sensor is the type I recommend and the connectors are colour coded and easy to use. Whether I would use the frame bag to house the controller & wiring is another matter. My conversion uses a saddle pack and it fits rather neatly. If I make Long Itch & you are there, I may bring the Orbit conversion along for you to look at. That used a Panda Pro kit and a BGA battery. I went to town on the battery seeing as the kit was on sale. 17.5Ah gives me a lot of miles between charges at illegal speeds, even more were I to stick to 15.5MPH.
Hydraulic Disc braked bikes are harder to convert, as the levers need a rather Heath Robinson, stick-on sensor, unless you splash out on proper ebike levers.
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I don't think there's anything "next" about the big thing; we rode up onto the moors today, and of the four bikes propped against the wall next to us at the Lion Inn, three were e-MTBs. Nice looking bikes too.
Fboab might or might not have used the word "cheat", I couldn't possibly comment.
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I don't think there's anything "next" about the big thing; we rode up onto the moors today, and of the four bikes propped against the wall next to us at the Li-ion Inn, three were e-MTBs. Nice looking bikes too.
FTFY
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'On the cheap' depends on the definition of 'cheap'. There are kits on eBay very cheap. What you want to avoid is one that needs an external speed sensor. Not only is that a faff to wire up, but it isn't the best technology either. Most decent kits' hubs have built-in speed sensors. You also don't want a direct drive hub, but a geared one. Direct drive is cheap, but very old hat. You'd be looking at at least £400 to get a decent kit & a not-so-decent sized battery. £100 more would get you a much better battery and longer range.
Although in Germany, I like the look of this company's (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/ysbattery-2012?_trksid=p2047675.l2563) kits, without actually having used one, I add. The bottom bracket sensor is the type I recommend and the connectors are colour coded and easy to use. Whether I would use the frame bag to house the controller & wiring is another matter. My conversion uses a saddle pack and it fits rather neatly. If I make Long Itch & you are there, I may bring the Orbit conversion along for you to look at. That used a Panda Pro kit and a BGA battery. I went to town on the battery seeing as the kit was on sale. 17.5Ah gives me a lot of miles between charges at illegal speeds, even more were I to stick to 15.5MPH.
£500 is pretty much what I was thinking - cheap compared to getting a £1400 Pendix, lovely though they are. Thank you for that information. I certainly plan to be at Long Itch, hope you make it!
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I finished converting my wife's bike 2 weeks ago, using this kit:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/576-q100-36v350w-front-e-bike-whole-kit-ebike-kit.html#/213-rpm-201/381-display-lcd5
Now, we ended up paying about $250USD in shipping + $40CAD in customs.
No instructions, so it took a little digging around, but it works.
We got a reasonably steep hill nearby and it'll pull me (95kgs) up that hill at a 14-15km/h unassisted and you can easily maintain 25km/h if you help it along.
The PAS is pretty good, battery more than sufficient for our purpose.
Wheel build was outright dangerous and as I needed the LBS to help installing the PAS sensor (I have no idea where my crank arm puller lives nowadays) I had them tighten and true the wheel.
Also, since I was replacing a front wheel with dyno-hub/hub brake, I also had to buy a new v-brake.
Brake only disconnects the motor and there's no regen.
Still need to shorten all the wires and probably solder most of the connections.
Company was a bit of a pain to deal with and I probably wouldn't recommend them...however, they are one of the few companies that ship batteries via air. (Not sure if GreenBikeKit does).
Be prepared of getting charged multiple times for shipping. You'd think they'd figured it out by now, although I do know that shipping batteries changes quite often and can be tricky.
Best thing is that my wife loves it. It gets her on the bike and is perfect for her commute.
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Sign of the times: the Fédération Française de Cyclotourisme just dropped the Cyclotourisme and became the Fédération Française du Vélo. Their site banner now features an electric bike. Twats. :facepalm:
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Sign of the times: the Fédération Française de Cyclotourisme just dropped the Cyclotourisme and became the Fédération Française du Vélo. Their site banner now features an electric bike. Twats. :facepalm:
"Nous sommes vélo en France"
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Caught up with an ebiking couple on Sunday. On the short twisty section just outside Malmesbury, as I came round the corner I saw a woman cycling ahead of me. From her low cadence, relatively high uphill speed and effortless demeanour I deduced she was electrically assisted and indeed she was. Hubby was waiting just at the top. Both on archetypal Kalkhoff sit-up-and-beg ebikes. I guess they were in their early 60s and they were clearly enjoying their day on bikes in the sun.
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Saw loads of ebikes in France around the Bay of the Somme area (think Norfolk), what surprised me was the number of those with BB gearboxes (or/and motors, I think?) suggesting that they are coming down in price. They looked like the Pinion system I don't know if they were.
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France, like a few other more enlightened European countries, offer incentives up to 20% off the list price of eBikes as government funding.
UK? 'Nah, mate. You can fuck off!'... It doesn't make anything for the tory twats and their mates.
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Back from a few months in Spain. Bought a new Trek ebike - it is excellent. Where we were in Spain the cycle market is transformed - high end road bikes and ebikes are all that sell. The 'mid market' has completely gone. Electrics overall outnumber traditional bikes and are the utility transport of many. I suspect it is result of local topography - extremely hilly so only athletes ride without assist.
Shocked by the price and quality of the bikes there - £3400 for top end dutch style electric bikes, and they sell as fast as they can lorry them from Holland/Germany. The electric bike has pretty much saved the bike industry there.
The UK is so far behind in this, and attitudes to electric bikes are still primitive.
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I too have joined the e-bike brigade with an Orbea Gain road/touring bike. The big attractions are that a) it rides like a slightly heavier tourer with the power switched off and b) it`s not looking like a big clumsy e-bike as the battery is in a slighter fatter than normal down-tube and the motor is sandwiched between a disc rotor and a large sprocket on the 8sp cassette. The weight is just a whisker over 13kg out of the box (Ive added mudguards, rack and a Brooks) - probably lighter than my venerable 1975 Galaxy.
Only ridden it a couple of times so far and still getting used to the gears/motor relationship - the plan is to ride without the power and just use the juice for the steeper hills.
Rob
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Rode my Moulton ATB with ARCC e-assist in solo form for the first time yesterday; usually only use it when in tandem configuration.
Did this to test a particular feature, it would be very easy to get used to it solo!
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I actually owned an ebike for a short while over autumn and winter. I ended up returning it because mechanically the product was deficient (squeaks and creaks from inside the frameset - on inspection the thing had been assembled horrendously badly) and was a pig to maintain (removing the rear wheel was a nightmare). But I think they are the future of transportation and if they get people out of their poison death cages and joining our stakeholder interest group as bike users, then we're on to a winner.
The real problem right now is price. A quality ebike costs at least £1.5k. I went for one which was a grand, which was great for a few months but quickly made its deficiencies clear shortly after. It's mad that the gov has started promoting electric cars, autonomous vehicles etc while leaving the humble ebike on the stand.
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As a user I'm not sure I would opt for an e-bike over a motorscooter as it would not have a place to stash stuff and I wouldn't be able to say "Chiao" with as much panache.
I reckon an e-bike is probably better as theoretically someone could buy one and end up actually cycling.
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The future is going to be e trikes best for touring and utility ;D
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Wilier have just announced what looks like a carbon speed machine but with the same electrics as the Orbea Gain http://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/the-lightest-e-road-bike-yet-wiliers-cento1-hybrid-launches-1667 Weighs 12 kg, which is less than my touring bike.
(https://s9.postimg.cc/50w9d1nrz/cento1hybrid_ga_7.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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I rode the E-assist tandem to work today. The stretch last night recorded an average speed of 12.9 MPH as opposed to 8 MPH when I did it on a conventional solo last week. This is the difference between being a few minutes late and puffing when I assived at work and being 10 minutes early and fairly fresh. Back to the station today I had an average of 14.4 MPH compared to the last time I did that route on the solo which recorded 9.9 MPH. If the train hadn't been cancelled, that would have been fast enough to catch it. I think I really need a solo E-assist now :)
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I rode the E-assist tandem to work today. The stretch last night recorded an average speed of 12.9 MPH as opposed to 8 MPH when I did it on a conventional solo last week. This is the difference between being a few minutes late and puffing when I assived at work and being 10 minutes early and fairly fresh. Back to the station today I had an average of 14.4 MPH compared to the last time I did that route on the solo which recorded 9.9 MPH. If the train hadn't been cancelled, that would have been fast enough to catch it. I think I really need a solo E-assist now :)
And so does the train company.
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I rode the E-assist tandem to work today. The stretch last night recorded an average speed of 12.9 MPH as opposed to 8 MPH when I did it on a conventional solo last week. This is the difference between being a few minutes late and puffing when I assived at work and being 10 minutes early and fairly fresh. Back to the station today I had an average of 14.4 MPH compared to the last time I did that route on the solo which recorded 9.9 MPH. If the train hadn't been cancelled, that would have been fast enough to catch it. I think I really need a solo E-assist now :)
And so does the train company.
Yes. The guard came through after I got on to say "I saw you getting on with your really big bike and wanted to know where you are getting off so I could come and help". In the event, I was off before she made it, but it was a kind offer. :)
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In mid February I fitted a Bafang BBS01B to an elderly Ammaco frame; the only one in my collection that would accept it.
I took it out to try, just 5 miles up and down local hills, this was a return to cycling after none for 30 months and very little for the 18 months before that, and I fell off on mud.
The next ride, following rest and physio for my injured back, was the first of this month and since then I have totalled 140Km and it has been a revelation. I am using it with the power setting of 5 levels and generally riding it on zero or level one to get my legs back into some shape. I am running it through an Alfine 8 IGH and haven't needed bottom gear and full power as yet.
When I got to 70km the number of power bands on the controller hadn't reduced and only one led was off on the battery (15Ah). I decided to recharge it rather than let it run down too far. It took exactly three hours.
After leaving Butterfly, TJ and Nye on Thursday I stopped on Enville Common because it was very sluggish. I checked that the brakes weren't dragging and that the chain wasn't tight but all was well. I set off again worrying that either hub or motor was at fault. I tried, illegally, the thumb throttle and it all perked up; I was riding into a headwind! An extra level of power, two when necessary, and all was good.
I am so pleased with it that I have bought a second motor to fit in one of my recumbents.
Today I am taking the motor from the Ammaco frame, which is too tall for me, and fitting it into my On One Inbred which I spent yesterday gently carving a piece from the right hand chainstay strengthening plate so that the motor will butt up fully to the bottom bracket shell.
Why is there no separate area for electric motors? Knowledge and information is getting spread all over YACF.
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https://www.bikebiz.com/news/bikes-need-3rd-part-insurance-in-eu
Mandatory insurance for E-bikes ?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/25/older-men-using-e-bikes-behind-rising-death-toll-among-dutch-cyclists
I'm seeing quite a few electric or electrically assisted bikes being ridden around Liverpool at impressive speeds and with alarming lack of road discipline.
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I've just been reading an old (2015) Jan Heine blog about ebikes, based on a visit to Japan, which raises some interesting points. Firstly, he mentions the democratising effect of electric power, which we're familiar with, but perhaps not from quite the same angle:
Then we saw them everywhere. Women (mostly, Japan still being a society with somewhat rigid gender roles, at least on the surface) who carried not just one, but often two children on seats attached on the front and back of their bikes. Mothers and children were well-dressed as Tokyoites tend to do and most definitely not working up a sweat, yet moving at a rather brisk pace.
I'm not sure I've ever seen two child seats on one bike. Two children, sure, in places where it's normal to carry kids in your arms or sitting on the crossbar etc rather than using special seats, but two seats on one bike allows Westerners to use a normal size bike for whole-family transport and electric motors give them the power to do it. Yes, we have things like the Helios and the box bikes, but they are large and special, making them cumbersome to store and expensive to buy. (And I'm considering Japan to be a Western nation in this respect, that it's shiny and safety conscious.)
Then there's infrastructure. Ebikes have had the effect of persuading Tokyoites to ride on the road rather than the pavement due to the lessened speed differential with motor vehicles:
Then Koichiro told me that Japanese urban cyclists recently have won the right to ride in the streets, after having been banished to the sidewalks for decades. He was very proud of this fact. I wonder how much e-bikes contributed, because they really are too fast to ride on the sidewalk.
But JH considers this might lead to demands for better quality cycle paths. Cycle roads, in fact (though he doesn't use this expression).
Anybody now can ride at speeds that before could be attained only by well-trained cyclists on performance bikes. That made me think that our infrastructure planners still are designing facilities for the last century. Most of the trendy cyclepaths are suitable for speeds of up to 15 km/h (9 mph), yet modern e-bikes go much faster. As your speed increases, the fear of getting hit from behind is reduced, whereas the dangers at intersections increase.
With e-bikes, we’ll soon have a new constituency who will demand a cycling infrastructure that can be used at reasonable speeds, which allows commuters to cover significant distances efficiently. It’s a constituency that cannot be so easily dismissed as “fast and fearless” ... but one that has to be taken seriously.
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/07/06/e-bikes-are-game-changers/
Though it's also possible, I reckon, ebikes might have the opposite effect, at least in Britain, where cycle paths seem to be designed with fear in mind; they might lead to additional barriers in order to slow down these dangerous fast non-lycra louts.
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The future is going to be e trikes best for touring and utility ;D
Except on narrow bridges? :)
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they might lead to additional barriers in order to slow down these dangerous fast non-lycra louts.
Isn't it more likely that our politicians will class e-bikes as PTWs requiring helmets and registration?
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They might. But then PTWs are the ostensible reason for many of the barriers already.
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They might. But then PTWs are the ostensible reason for many of the barriers already.
Excellent point. Maybe they'll finally realise that barriers are useless and make cycling illegal instead.
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Ham - not stalking you - but just back from the Somme bay and probably saw just as many e-bikes as normal bikes. Mostly ridden by slightly older folk.
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I'm not sure I've ever seen two child seats on one bike. Two children, sure, in places where it's normal to carry kids in your arms or sitting on the crossbar etc rather than using special seats, but two seats on one bike allows Westerners to use a normal size bike for whole-family transport and electric motors give them the power to do it.
They are available, either as 2 on a long tail bike or a Motherbike or Mamachari (the Japanese ones). It is very common in the Netherlands, unsurprisingly, but they do happen here. When I ended up with my Helios, I was originally looking at a Gazelle Bloom or similar motherbike.
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Being a fan, pleased to see more electric comment here. I still think there ought to be a separate thread area. Not having one is a bit typical of the UK cycling attitude to bikes overall. 'Not really bikes/cyclists' is commonplace.
I have 2 now - a lovely home conversion brompton using a nano hub motor, twist throttle control and 9amphr battery, and a Trek e-mtb hub motor job. They both get continual use by me and Mrs Tiger. The Trek is just the job for the top of the narrowboat, negotiating rough riverside and canal towpath, heavily laden with panniers of supplies. The brommie is light and folds away.
Neither is fast but neither am I these days. These bikes just eliminate the hills though.
The industry has been slow to get going in the UK, leaving a wild west vacuum for bad-boy internet hombrew bikes with illegal high speed motors. (Like my first 40kph model -I never went higher than level 5 of 10 power settings).
In time the UK trade will wake up and see the potential market here and they will be everywhere.
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An email from LBS tells me that eBromptons are a thing and available from a shop near me. As of yet I'm still untempted to own either a folder or an electric bike. But who knows?
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Noticed today in front of the bargain warehouse discount place in town: a £299 (reduced from £799!) e-BSO - battery on the rear rack and a rear hub motor. I wonder if the median ebike does more miles than the median bike, and if this is less than the typical mileage to first failure...
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Noticed today in front of the bargain warehouse discount place in town: a £299 (reduced from £799!) e-BSO - battery on the rear rack and a rear hub motor. I wonder if the median ebike does more miles than the median bike, and if this is less than the typical mileage to first failure...
Interesting question. My gut instinct says they probably do, as they're more likely to be bought for mobility or transport rather than 'exercise'.
I assume the typical mileage to first failure is about the same, given that BSOs tend to be withdrawn from service due to a puncture, and corrosion does the rest. Are shoddy Li-ion battery packs more reliable than BSO tyres? Probably.
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Interesting question. My gut instinct says they probably do, as they're more likely to be bought for mobility or transport rather than 'exercise'.
Yeah, that was my guess, and for the same reasons.
I assume the typical mileage to first failure is about the same, given that BSOs tend to be withdrawn from service due to a puncture, and corrosion does the rest. Are shoddy Li-ion battery packs more reliable than BSO tyres? Probably.
I was thinking visitations might get fixed on a utility-type bike, but that the spokes on the rear wheel would start going (on the assumption that the wheels are not going to be particularly well built, and that there may well be a heavy load on the rack in use). I suppose the crappy V-brakes might be next, or the gearing; I didn't actually check what it was, but it looked to have cheapo twist shifters.
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Ah, but the beauty of (hub motor) electric assist is that the bike remains eminently usable when the shifting system fails to the traditional BSO default gear of small:small :)
It does seem worryingly likely that the electrckery might outlast the brakes (I'm going to count the rim going out of true necessitating disconnection of the V-brake as a brake failure for these purposes).
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I bought a eBSO 3 years ago. A Woosh. OK, I got it off eBay for less than half its retail price, but it had only done 200 miles. Basically it fell apart around me on my commute to work over the next few months. Cheap componentry, heavy frame, but a half decent mid-drive motor system. I set about upgrading it, but soon realised I was throwing good money after bad. I learned my lesson and splashed out a lot more on a decent machine that has done c.5000 miles with only minor niggles.
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Wow, they're quick aren't they? I was in a line of traffic following a cyclist through Great Ayton yesterday, and it was only when we were climbing out of the village/town (I dunno, it's borderline) at 20mph I thought - "Hang on... Panniers, Hi Vis, Rucksack - doing 20mph uphill? I smell Magic Smoke!" and sure enough, he had The Gubbins right there on his bike.
The traffic didn't really know what to do. He was too fast to overtake easily, but clearly the motorists all wanted to be doing 30mph, not 20. I guess ideally, e-bikes need to be able to do 30mph, so they can join the traffic flow without creating a line of muttering motorists behind. Now, I know as cyclists we don't give a Flying Fuck about muttering motorists, but as a motorist who just might have somewhere to be, I have some sympathy for the other side of the argument as well.
ETA: I accept this whole speed thing isn't fair.
Stuck behind a tractor: "Ah FFS, a tractor!"
Stuck behind a cyclist: "FFS!!! YA TWAT, GET OUT OF MY WAAAAY!! YA DON'T EVEN PAY ROAD TAX"
etc etc
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They're supposed to be limited to 15.5mph, thobut. Pretty normal cyclist speed (admittedly not usually uphill).
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They're supposed to be limited to 15.5mph, thobut. Pretty normal cyclist speed (admittedly not usually uphill).
Quite. Not this guy.
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The traffic didn't really know what to do. He was too fast to overtake easily, but clearly the motorists all wanted to be doing 30mph, not 20. I guess ideally, e-bikes need to be able to do 30mph, so they can join the traffic flow without creating a line of muttering motorists behind. Now, I know as cyclists we don't give a Flying Fuck about muttering motorists, but as a motorist who just might have somewhere to be, I have some sympathy for the other side of the argument as well.
This is an issue I have with the current version of eBikes. In town traffic, regular bicycles keep up fine and just become part of traffic. As soon as you hit a 30 zone, to the average driver, cyclists become a rolling chicane. If the bike can't do 25, then they are going to overtake, so 15mph is too slow to be "part of traffic". Yet 15mph is too fast for shared use paths and other places where you encounter pedestrians.
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An email from LBS tells me that eBromptons are a thing and available from a shop near me. As of yet I'm still untempted to own either a folder or an electric bike. But who knows?
An electric Brompton appeals to me more than any other form of eBike at the moment. It strikes me as an eminently practical commuter tool. Depends on weight/range of course but you can stash it in a car boot, take it on bus and train, stash it under your office desk and ride to the office without getting sweaty.
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An email from LBS tells me that eBromptons are a thing and available from a shop near me. As of yet I'm still untempted to own either a folder or an electric bike. But who knows?
Can you actually buy one? AFAIK they haven’t shipped any to customers yet. The website is still taking pre-orders for delivery in “early 2018”.
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I think they've rolled some demo models out to dealers as a beta-test, though, so it may refer to that.
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This is an issue I have with the current version of eBikes. In town traffic, regular bicycles keep up fine and just become part of traffic. As soon as you hit a 30 zone, to the average driver, cyclists become a rolling chicane. If the bike can't do 25, then they are going to overtake, so 15mph is too slow to be "part of traffic". Yet 15mph is too fast for shared use paths and other places where you encounter pedestrians.
The point of e-bikes is that they are bikes, that are slightly easier to ride. They are designed to have all the flaws that a normal bike has, that is the point. As soon as you start making them go quicker or anything else, you cross over into the e-moped territory and things will get messy.
Today Amsterdam confirmed that it is going to be banning all bromfiets/snorfiets from the cycle lanes. Currently small mopeds, limited to 50kph are allowed in the cycle lane, they don't need a license and they don't need a helmet. And they are an utter menace. Their kinetic envelope is bigger, they are driven by morons, and they seem to see cyclists as something fun to play with. In 2019 they will have to wear helmets and ride in the car lane. But this has opened up an interesting debate about what happens to the higher performance pedal assist ebikes, that can do more than 25kph?
As part of this discussion with a group of dutch friends the topic of charging of pedal assist bikes came up. Are they still in the 30 different standard connectors for charging a battery state?
Maybe if we could get the EU to stop breaking the internet, they could make a standard for pedal assist bike charging.
J
PS I am explicitely saying pedal assist bike, to differentiate from electric mopeds, electric scooters, electric motorbikes, electric unicorn hover carpets, etc... As it seems that in many non cycle circles, the term e-bike isn't always interpreted the same.
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As part of this discussion with a group of dutch friends the topic of charging of pedal assist bikes came up. Are they still in the 30 different standard connectors for charging a battery state?
There can't be that many combinations for mis-using an XLR connector, Shirley? :)
Maybe if we could get the EU to stop breaking the internet, they could make a standard for pedal assist bike charging.
To be fair, a waterproof box with a standard AC mains socket inside it and some sort of provision for a lock would solve the problem today. E-bikes (including the more motorcycley ones) have a significant advantage over larger electric vehicles, in that they can charge in a reasonable time from a 10A/230V supply, and the battery and mains charger are of a size that can reasonably be carried by a person.
Given that you can take your battery into your workplace/cafe/hotel/whatever and plug it in to a wall socket, there's a lot less need for a standardised public infrastructure to support the journeys that exceed the battery range than there is for charging cars[1].
If there's to be a DC charging standard, I think it's going to require the EU doing something sensible again (perhaps they'll go after the laptop power bricks next, and sweep up the e-bike chargers in the process), or (much less likely) for one or two big manufacturers to achieve market dominance, so everyone wants to copy their connectors.
[1] While it wouldn't be too tricky to make an e-bike charger speak to an AC EVSE, it's probably for the best (at least in the short term) that the Mennekes connectors are impractically large for carrying on a pedal cycle.
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There can't be that many combinations for mis-using an XLR connector, Shirley? :)
Oh you'd be surprised...
Maybe if we could get the EU to stop breaking the internet, they could make a standard for pedal assist bike charging.
To be fair, a waterproof box with a standard AC mains socket inside it and some sort of provision for a lock would solve the problem today. E-bikes (including the more motorcycley ones) have a significant advantage over larger electric vehicles, in that they can charge in a reasonable time from a 10A/230V supply, and the battery and mains charger are of a size that can reasonably be carried by a person.
Yes and no. If you started putting schuko points on lamp posts down the city street, you're going to need to find someway to stop people abusing those to power their homes. etc...
Given that you can take your battery into your workplace/cafe/hotel/whatever and plug it in to a wall socket, there's a lot less need for a standardised public infrastructure to support the journeys that exceed the battery range than there is for charging cars[1].
Yes and no. You and I can easily take the several kg of battery into the office, or up the stairs to a flat. But what if you're not as able bodied? For many an pedal assist bike is a viable alternative to a car as an accessibility device, yet, for it to work, they need a charging solution that doesn't involve lugging heavy devices around.
The weight of pedal assist bikes is oft cited as the reason that some do not go for them. Especially in a country where half the bike parking spaces are the upper tear of a double decker arrangement ala:
(http://cycle-works.com/wp-content/products/en/openaccess/josta-hc-racks/josta-2tier-rack/images/gallery/Josta-High-Capacity-2-Tier-Racks2.jpg)
If there's to be a DC charging standard, I think it's going to require the EU doing something sensible again (perhaps they'll go after the laptop power bricks next, and sweep up the e-bike chargers in the process), or (much less likely) for one or two big manufacturers to achieve market dominance, so everyone wants to copy their connectors.
Ooh, that would be nice. We have too many laptop connector standards too...
[1] While it wouldn't be too tricky to make an e-bike charger speak to an AC EVSE, it's probably for the best (at least in the short term) that the Mennekes connectors are impractically large for carrying on a pedal cycle.
Electric car charging connectors are obviously designed by those who do not charge their cars on city streets. The number of cars I see with a big connector sticking out 300mm form the car, into the bike lane, or over the pavement. Just begging to be snapped off by a careless pedestrian or cyclist. A lower profile design that is closer to the vehicle would be nice, something that leads the cable downwards.
J
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To be fair, a waterproof box with a standard AC mains socket inside it and some sort of provision for a lock would solve the problem today. E-bikes (including the more motorcycley ones) have a significant advantage over larger electric vehicles, in that they can charge in a reasonable time from a 10A/230V supply, and the battery and mains charger are of a size that can reasonably be carried by a person.
Yes and no. If you started putting schuko points on lamp posts down the city street, you're going to need to find someway to stop people abusing those to power their homes. etc...
Maybe. Easy to do if there's some sort of payment system (just make it more expensive than domestic rate per kWh), but that adds massive complexity.
Yes and no. You and I can easily take the several kg of battery into the office, or up the stairs to a flat. But what if you're not as able bodied? For many an pedal assist bike is a viable alternative to a car as an accessibility device, yet, for it to work, they need a charging solution that doesn't involve lugging heavy devices around.
The weight of pedal assist bikes is oft cited as the reason that some do not go for them. Especially in a country where half the bike parking spaces are the upper tear of a double decker arrangement ala:
I'm acutely aware of these issues. Barakta has a battery she can't safely carry on a tricycle that's a two-person job to get through our front door (it has to be lifted and rotated around its long axis). To be fair, I specified the battery so she'd be able to do >100km without charging, which means it's harder to lift, but almost never a problem. A secure garage with a door at street level would be a game-changer, though.
TBH, I reckon what's really needed is a move to providing more secure accessible bike parking, with e-bike charging as part of that spec.
(In the UK we also have this delightful situation where makers of secure bike lockers have never seen a city bike. Anything with wide, swept-back bars or a stem above touring bike height simply doesn't fit.)
Electric car charging connectors are obviously designed by those who do not charge their cars on city streets. The number of cars I see with a big connector sticking out 300mm form the car, into the bike lane, or over the pavement. Just begging to be snapped off by a careless pedestrian or cyclist. A lower profile design that is closer to the vehicle would be nice, something that leads the cable downwards.
Ohgod, yes. I mean, they've designed the connectors to be sturdy, waterproof, lock in place and resist a reasonable amount of errant unplugging force, but so many of the vehicle manufacturers (particularly for plug-in hybrids and electric versions of existing models) seem to have borrowed the design of a petrol filler cap without further thought. Electrons are quite happy to flow uphill and round corners, so putting the connector on the front or back of the vehicle so the cable can always reach and be out of the way of people trying to get past the side is obvious. Not having an expensive flap sticking out for vandals to snap off would be a good idea, too. (Actually retaining the connector under a flap probably isn't a good idea, as there needs to be provision for J Random Rapid Charger User to rock up in the adjacent bay and pull the cable from your car when it unlocks at the end of charging.)
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This is an issue I have with the current version of eBikes. In town traffic, regular bicycles keep up fine and just become part of traffic. As soon as you hit a 30 zone, to the average driver, cyclists become a rolling chicane. If the bike can't do 25, then they are going to overtake, so 15mph is too slow to be "part of traffic". Yet 15mph is too fast for shared use paths and other places where you encounter pedestrians.
The point of e-bikes is that they are bikes, that are slightly easier to ride. They are designed to have all the flaws that a normal bike has, that is the point. As soon as you start making them go quicker or anything else, you cross over into the e-moped territory and things will get messy.
That's perfectly reasonable, and I understand how conflict arises between fast ebikes and slow ebikes/regular bikes on dedicated cycle ways, in much the same way as conflict exists between any sort of bike and pedestrians on a shared use path (when one user is being an arse). Where dedicated sensible bike paths exist, the too fast and too slow issue of 15mph isn't a problem.
I'm simply talking about use on the road (and my experience is only in the UK) - stopping assistance at 15mph means that the ebike remains seen as an impediment to traffic (as it would if it were only human powered), rather than as being traffic. I believe that current UK law says that if your bike is capable of >250W, or >15mph then it's an electric moped and needs licence plate, tax, insurance, helmet, etc. and is not permitted on cycle paths.
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Maybe. Easy to do if there's some sort of payment system (just make it more expensive than domestic rate per kWh), but that adds massive complexity.
In developed countries with a near universal transport RFID token (i.e. OV ChipKaart), it's less problematic. But, I would question if schuko has the durability for this sort of usage cycle...
I'm acutely aware of these issues. Barakta has a battery she can't safely carry on a tricycle that's a two-person job to get through our front door (it has to be lifted and rotated around its long axis). To be fair, I specified the battery so she'd be able to do >100km without charging, which means it's harder to lift, but almost never a problem. A secure garage with a door at street level would be a game-changer, though.
TBH, I reckon what's really needed is a move to providing more secure accessible bike parking, with e-bike charging as part of that spec.
(In the UK we also have this delightful situation where makers of secure bike lockers have never seen a city bike. Anything with wide, swept-back bars or a stem above touring bike height simply doesn't fit.)
I appreciate that in your case I'm very much preaching to the converted.
I wonder if there is an argument to be had for having bikes with multiple battery slots. Lets face it for most people, they are taking the bike on at most a 20km round trip, that's not going to need much power capacity, this is the whole range anxiety problems etc... from E-cars. But if rather than a single 500wh battery, you have a pair of 250wh batteries. On most days you can take the 250w, and leave one at home, reducing your weight, but when you want to do a long ride to the coast for pancakes, you can bring both. That would bring each battery into the sub 1.5kg category.
There also needs to be better thought taken to battery unit security. I know many pedal assist bikes have a lock to protect the battery, but that lock is theatrical at best. People lock their bike with a €100 lock, but the battery is held in with a key of laughably poor quality.
Round these parts I'd love to see a pedal assist cargo trike sharing scheme, like the greenwheels car hire scheme, so you can book a bike for €2.50 an hour, to do a run to the garden center, etc... But that requires cooperation from the Gemente, suitable charging infrastructure, and users with clue...
Given the frame of the bike is metal, surely there should be a mechanism to have a charging dock like you have with Boris bikes. Click the bike into the dock, swipe your OV chipkaart, walk away... Or am I overthinking things?
Ohgod, yes. I mean, they've designed the connectors to be sturdy, waterproof, lock in place and resist a reasonable amount of errant unplugging force, but so many of the vehicle manufacturers (particularly for plug-in hybrids and electric versions of existing models) seem to have borrowed the design of a petrol filler cap without further thought. Electrons are quite happy to flow uphill and round corners, so putting the connector on the front or back of the vehicle so the cable can always reach and be out of the way of people trying to get past the side is obvious. Not having an expensive flap sticking out for vandals to snap off would be a good idea, too. (Actually retaining the connector under a flap probably isn't a good idea, as there needs to be provision for J Random Rapid Charger User to rock up in the adjacent bay and pull the cable from your car when it unlocks at the end of charging.)
Front or rear, unless they can come up with a more low profile connector design causes issues with when you want to cut through between two parted charging cars in an on street charging situation...
Then of course there is no standard location for the charging port, so you end up with cables trailing everywhere, and with excess curled up to catch you unawares...
And then there's the stupid councils that put the charging post on the pavement, eating into pedestrian space... etc...
There's a lot to rant about the current state of e-cars...
That's perfectly reasonable, and I understand how conflict arises between fast ebikes and slow ebikes/regular bikes on dedicated cycle ways, in much the same way as conflict exists between any sort of bike and pedestrians on a shared use path (when one user is being an arse). Where dedicated sensible bike paths exist, the too fast and too slow issue of 15mph isn't a problem.
I'm simply talking about use on the road (and my experience is only in the UK) - stopping assistance at 15mph means that the ebike remains seen as an impediment to traffic (as it would if it were only human powered), rather than as being traffic. I believe that current UK law says that if your bike is capable of >250W, or >15mph then it's an electric moped and needs licence plate, tax, insurance, helmet, etc. and is not permitted on cycle paths.
There are two issues at play here:
a) Moronic road designers who think a shared use pedestrian/cycle lane is a good idea.
b) Moronic drivers who think that they are obligated to over take a vehicle that is slower than them. Whether it is safe to do so or not.
bi) there is a special case of (b), which is cyclists on the shared use lanes of (a), that feel they have an obligation to get past the pedestrians, regardless to the safety of doing so. But then often the bipedal obstacle is also walking in such a way as to provide maximum obstruction (keep left, or keep right, just make your bloody mind up and don't walk down the fscking middle!)...
J
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An email from LBS tells me that eBromptons are a thing and available from a shop near me. As of yet I'm still untempted to own either a folder or an electric bike. But who knows?
Can you actually buy one? AFAIK they haven’t shipped any to customers yet. The website is still taking pre-orders for delivery in “early 2018”.
From the email:
We’ve demo Bromptons you can test ride – and we’re the only dealer in the South West with one of the new Brompton Electrics for you to try! (If you want to take a Brompton for a spin, call 0117 929 2151 or email us to book a time.)
It's Mud Dock in Bristol, if you're interested.
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Maybe. Easy to do if there's some sort of payment system (just make it more expensive than domestic rate per kWh), but that adds massive complexity.
In developed countries with a near universal transport RFID token (i.e. OV ChipKaart), it's less problematic. But, I would question if schuko has the durability for this sort of usage cycle...
There's also the point that, if we're talking about a European standard, schuko is not one (or rather, is one of many). Perhaps first we need to somehow standardise on one domestic plug and socket design. I'm not expecting that to happen.
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There's also the point that, if we're talking about a European standard, schuko is not one (or rather, is one of many). Perhaps first we need to somehow standardise on one domestic plug and socket design. I'm not expecting that to happen.
There are some connectors that are near universal in 27 of the Eu member states. For values of universal. They are:
- EN 50075 aka C5 aka Europlug. Rated to 2.5A, groundless plug, works in pin ground (it'd. French), edge ground (i.e. German) sockets, as well as Swiss, Italian, etc... it's the closest thing we have to a universal eu plug. Not the most mechanically robust, has a tendency to fall out in some sockets with poor tolerances. But it is universal in the 27.
- EN 60309 16a aka IEC 60309 16a, aka 16a CEE aka "the plug you need on a campsite". Most familiar to people as that plug you need to use a campsite socket. IP44 rated (if installed properly). In high power situations, it is near universal in all 28 member states plus a lot more. It's big, it's bulky, but it can do 16a. Also comes in 32a, 63a, and 125a versions, as well as 3 phase. Whilst all are standard, the 16a is the most deployed.
The standards are there. They are used. Just not always correctly.
Now let's look at charging an e bike with these. Assuming a 440wh battery ( makes the maths easier). To charge that at 2.5a, assuming 80% efficiency, I think comes out at about 1 hour.
With the 16a CEE, assuming the same 80% efficiency, I think comes to about 7 minutes (someone please check my maths).
Interestingly, USB c provides 5A at 20v if you configure it properly. That's 100w. Or about 5.5 hours to recharge this example battery. Is it rated for the duty cycle of an average public charging post? Good question. Given a lot of bike batteries are 48v, charging 48v from a 20v source is not an obvious setup. But it could be there.
In short. There are some options here, but without some sort of guidance from a higher power (aka the eu). Nothings likely to happen. Worst case is we get an xkcd://927 type situation.
The wonderful thing about standards is there are so many to choose fron.
J
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> With the 16a CEE, assuming the same 80% efficiency, I think comes to about 7 minutes (someone please check my maths).
Errrr.. at that rate would the battery not overheat and maybe explode?
I really don't know anything about rapid charging of batteries. But I would be cautious of charging any battery too fast.
I would also use the phrase 'supercapacitor' - which you should eb able to charge very fast. But I have no idea if such things are out in the wild.
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The wonderful thing about standards is there are so many to choose fron.
Or as you put it earlier:
The standards are there. They are used. Just not always correctly.
I think we're mostly talking about types C, E and F on this list. (https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/) I've never been to Denmark or Italy so don't know if K and L are the norm there or just edge cases, but I've seen more than a few mismatches between those supposedly compatible types to say that in practice, it doesn't always work. Or at least, it can almost always be forced to fit, but not in a way that it should.
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> With the 16a CEE, assuming the same 80% efficiency, I think comes to about 7 minutes (someone please check my maths).
Errrr.. at that rate would the battery not overheat and maybe explode?
I really don't know anything about rapid charging of batteries. But I would be cautious of charging any battery too fast.
I would also use the phrase 'supercapacitor' - which you should eb able to charge very fast. But I have no idea if such things are out in the wild.
Having been playing with super capacitors for another project recently, they look great. Very fast charging, great low temperature performance. But they are considerably more bulky than any lithium battery tech. And yes, charging at that speed is likely to blow up the battery. I never claimed it's a good idea.
The wonderful thing about standards is there are so many to choose fron.
Or as you put it earlier:
The standards are there. They are used. Just not always correctly.
I think we're mostly talking about types C, E and F on this list. (https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/) I've never been to Denmark or Italy so don't know if K and L are the norm there or just edge cases, but I've seen more than a few mismatches between those supposedly compatible types to say that in practice, it doesn't always work. Or at least, it can almost always be forced to fit, but not in a way that it should.
Type c, europlug as I mentioned up list.
Type e, pin ground. Used in France and Belgium, plus others..
Type f, edge ground aka shuko, aka German et al
Continuing on, type j, a Europlug will work on the socket, but a type j plug won't fit in any other sockets.
Same with type k, l, and n. I think.
So a europlug should fit all sockets used in the European union, Greater finoscandia, and a few other countries, with the exception of the UK which uses type g sockets.
J
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But that Type C Europlug is unearthed so probably not too good for charging bikes. And, as you said, doesn't in practice fit too well in other supposedly compatible sockets (it's own type of sockets being theoretically extinct). If we're talking about charging batteries in a domestic environment, people are going to use whatever there is at home. For on-street chargers it's going to have to be a bit tougher.
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But that Type C Europlug is unearthed so probably not too good for charging bikes. And, as you said, doesn't in practice fit too well in other supposedly compatible sockets (it's own type of sockets being theoretically extinct). If we're talking about charging batteries in a domestic environment, people are going to use whatever there is at home. For on-street chargers it's going to have to be a bit tougher.
Yeah, that's kinda the point I was trying to make, in a very round about way, very badly...
J
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I've never been to Denmark or Italy so don't know if K and L are the norm there or just edge cases,
Type K is the norm in Denmark. Yes, all the sockets have little smiley faces. However the Euro two-prong plug type C fits the sockets just fine.
the three pin Europlug, type J, I hae not tried. Should be one around the office if I can find one.
Older houses in Denmark have a light switch beside the door which will incorporate one or two type C sockets, I guess intended for low current draw.
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Older houses in Denmark have a light switch beside the door which will incorporate one or two type C sockets, I guess intended for low current draw.
Interesting. I've read somewhere or other (it might have been some really reliable source like Wikipedia... ) that in Italy it used to be customary to screw electrical items into the light bulb sockets, because current for lighting was charged at a lower rate than for other uses (till the late '70s I think). All just anecdotes of the wonderful multifarious ways in which electricity gets used around the world and all completely impractical for e-bikes!
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IEC C13/14 connectors. You know it makes sense.
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So a europlug should fit all sockets used in the European union, Greater finoscandia, and a few other countries, with the exception of the UK which uses type g sockets.
Ireland also uses Type G/BS1363 sockets and plugs.
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Ireland also uses Type G/BS1363 sockets and plugs.
Ah yes, my apologies for forgetting. I always think of Ireland as an EU state using an EU type socket of some form. I forget they use UK sockets. My bad.
J
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El Prez has been running cycling hols for the FFCT the last couple of years. Stand M.O. has been to fly there and rent bikes. Now that he's electrified he looked into rental prices in <forget where> and was told 850€/week. :o FFCT will not cover the cost. El P. is not 'appy.