Author Topic: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)  (Read 5209 times)

Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« on: 19 January, 2018, 10:51:38 pm »
We are starting to think/talk about retiring. Probably still a good 10 years away, but are currently considering moving back to Europe for that purpose. I'm thinking Southern France, but without any real knowledge. Portugal could be an option too and my wife is keen on Italy (which I'm not, for no real particular reason).
Anyways. Since we are regularly (every 2 years or so), travelling to the UK and usually go somewhere in Europe as well), we're going to use the next handful of trips for scouting.
I'll be in the UK in July/August and are thinking of then going to Languedoc, as it seems to have sea, mountains, nice climate and some castles.
Anyone got experience with the area and/or could recommend other areas to check out?.
Plan is to hire a car and spend 4-5 days there.


Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #1 on: 20 January, 2018, 09:00:11 am »
Oddly enough I share you ambivalence about Italy.
That said , there are more than enough old farm houses  there that the locals have sensibly abandoned . This Umbria I am talking about, next door to Tuscany and more hilly.

Languedoc sounds right,  but  be near some where...

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #2 on: 20 January, 2018, 09:15:42 am »
Take a look at Le Luberon, it's very nice.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #3 on: 20 January, 2018, 09:33:49 am »
The Luberon may be like Tuscany and possibly more expensive, but like Italy, rural  France seems full of emptying villages. Make sure you visit in  mid January and then ask the "can I live here" question.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #4 on: 20 January, 2018, 09:47:23 am »
Our ancient hameau consists of seven houses.  And desertion looms: our adjacent neighbours are unlikely to be there when I return, one couple, ex-pats, are returning to live in the UK, the other is too infirm to live on her own now even with the support of family and social services.  Another is active but now 80 years old.

Two houses away is a holiday home owned by Brits and now on the market.  It needs a lot of spending.  There is a deserted ruin covered in vegetation.  We bought our place because Mrs A's sister lived nearby but she died in 2009; intentionally we don't have a fortune tied up in the venture and could walk away.   

Although the whole area is quite prosperous the native French tend to want modern new builds.

Languedoc is one of my favourite parts of France (apart from the holiday beaches). 

Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #5 on: 20 January, 2018, 10:43:46 am »
At the risk of sounding preachy, what is it that you want from your retirement home? Have you considered your health needs as you age?

I have no direct experience but by BiL and wife have upped sticks and gone to live in Portugal, in the arsehole of beyond. They have a property that is very nice indeed in grounds with swimming pool. But.

1 - They are 2Km from the nearest village with shops.

2 - Their social life is all around what they have found to be a community of ex-pats. Having joined in a social event once, having to pass the time of day with these people, politely, would be a strain on my sanity

3 - They live in the middle of Portugal. So do forest fires. Being told "make sure your passport is by your bed in case we have to run for it" is not my idea of fun.

4 - They are still registered with UK doctors and come back for hospital treatment

Oh, and Mrs Ham's sister doesn't drive. I think they are total fuckwits, but hey, what do I know?

There's normally a reason why property is cheap. And, (2) would be a show stopper for me, even if I didn't revel in life in the city

Sure you've thought of some of these questions, but I think asking yourself what you want from the location then finding places to match would be the way to go rather than where, but maybe that's what you are doing.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #6 on: 20 January, 2018, 11:04:05 am »
I would vote for Languadoc, Mrs Pcolbeck would love us to move there. We particularly like the area around Pezennas and Bezier. Some nice villages that have shops, bars and a chemist around there and if you want to live in the sticks with a few km drive to a village some cheap houses still.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #7 on: 20 January, 2018, 11:27:20 am »
Isn't an assumed  right of permanent residence a bit questionable atm? Personally I would take a longer let somewhere you fancy and thereby take stock before committing.

Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #8 on: 20 January, 2018, 12:00:18 pm »
Portugal is a third world country. Italy’s corruption and bureaucracy will confound you ( tho France does pretty good “need form a to get form b, but need form b to get form a” too). Rural depopulation in France is accelerating, with parallel loss of local services. I can never - like Ham - understand and people wanting to live with loads of other expats, being in the country jus5 for the better weather, which seems a driver for many. My sister has bought an apartment near Malaga in Spain. She loves it. She speaks Spanish and engages with the locals, not expats. That’s the way to do it. Love the country first, don’t go there hoping to like it. Your indecision says to me you don’t have that connection. We’d have a home in Sicily like a shot - provided we could keep a U.K. home as well, to use as a registered address for our much derided, but free NHS.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #9 on: 20 January, 2018, 12:09:07 pm »
Dead right re avoiding expat communities.  One of the questions I was asked during my naturalisation interview yesterday was "are your friends French or English?"  The main occupations of the expats seem to be patronizing the locals and whining about the lack of Marmite.

If you go south, find somewhere well sheltered and make sure it has a solid roof. It gets windy.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #10 on: 20 January, 2018, 01:22:08 pm »
It’s not just the English either, at least in France where a friend has bought a property (despite not speaking French) about 40 mind from Angouleme. The village he lives in has some other Brits, but also a good smattering if other Northern Europeans - mostly Dutch it seems.  Most of the French have moved out to new-builds nearer supermarkets. And his neighbour is a Parisian who bought a failing hotel. Guess what, it’s still failing and she can’t sell.

Another thing we noticed when we stayed a bit further south in Aigurande (south of Chateauroux) some 4 years ago now. Of the four hotels that had been in the town, two had closed and a third was dying on its feet. What a change from when I cycled in the area 25 years before. Finding a hotel was never a problem then, as long as the destination was big enough. Now I’d be inclined to book ahead. Maybe the death of the travelling salesman has had something to do with it.

There were also a large number of properties (every disused barn it seemed!) advertised for sale for renovation. Prices were absurd and most were months of not years old.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

ian

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #11 on: 20 January, 2018, 01:31:15 pm »
Having walked a lot through southern France for the last couple of decades, the rural decline is palpable. Villages filled with empty houses headed toward dilapidation, closed hotels and restaurants, usually a smattering of older people but a sense that everyone under the age of 50 has long flown. Even the tabac has gone. It's a bit sad, but a symptom of modern life, there's no jobs or facilities and I think people have higher set of expectations these days, they want cinemas, supermarkets, and bars.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #12 on: 20 January, 2018, 01:51:37 pm »
In 2005-ish you could get c. 1.5 euros for £1.  The credit crunch was still a few years away and credit was easy.  Never mind the political changes.
A few years make a heck of a difference.
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #13 on: 21 January, 2018, 02:10:08 am »
No interest in ex-pat communities. Also no longer sure what kind of ex-pat community we would qualify for? Danish/English/Korean/Canadian?

My wife would continue doing her pottery and I could do consulting/short term contracts. Barring a total collapse of the housing market here (Canada), we'd have enough to buy a property outright.

Portugal, I would probably want to be nearer to the coast. Forest fires do no really worry me (You get them here too, along with earthquakes, tsunami-threats, etc).  By all accounts healthcare is decent and basic cost of living is cheap.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #14 on: 21 January, 2018, 08:12:04 am »
I shall stay near to my significant community of family and friends.   The thought of a twenty year 'holiday' takes all the joy of holidays away for me.  There are many places that I have visited from Morocco to Denmark, Brittany to Shetland that I have little fantasies about moving to but in reality there is no place like home.

Bear in mind too that expat health tourism and current rights of residency may become blurred as a result of brexit.  So many issues to be resolved.  The Daily Hate of all scribblings even did a piece some time back iirc hitting out at expats laying in the sun but taking Blighty bounty despite not contributing. 




Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #15 on: 21 January, 2018, 10:26:24 am »
No interest in ex-pat communities. Also no longer sure what kind of ex-pat community we would qualify for? Danish/English/Korean/Canadian?

My wife would continue doing her pottery and I could do consulting/short term contracts. Barring a total collapse of the housing market here (Canada), we'd have enough to buy a property outright.

Portugal, I would probably want to be nearer to the coast. Forest fires do no really worry me (You get them here too, along with earthquakes, tsunami-threats, etc).  By all accounts healthcare is decent and basic cost of living is cheap.

It's cheap for a reason. It's a poor country. Still, best start learning Portuguese then  :) 
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #16 on: 21 January, 2018, 12:41:16 pm »
The Luberon may be like Tuscany and possibly more expensive, but like Italy, rural  France seems full of emptying villages. Make sure you visit in  mid January and then ask the "can I live here" question.

Hopefully that goes without saying and is one reason not to buy anything before you've looked at it when it's pissing with rain.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #17 on: 22 January, 2018, 03:06:16 am »
I shall stay near to my significant community of family and friends.   The thought of a twenty year 'holiday' takes all the joy of holidays away for me.  There are many places that I have visited from Morocco to Denmark, Brittany to Shetland that I have little fantasies about moving to but in reality there is no place like home.

Bear in mind too that expat health tourism and current rights of residency may become blurred as a result of brexit.  So many issues to be resolved.  The Daily Hate of all scribblings even did a piece some time back iirc hitting out at expats laying in the sun but taking Blighty bounty despite not contributing.

I'm a Danish national, so Brexit wont affect that. I've also lived 'abroad' for pretty much my entire adult life and the same goes for my wife.
We can put up with the Vancouver winter, so it'll take a lot of rain to discourage us :D

As for learning Portuguese, well, we would have to learn French as well and according to my Portuguese friend, you can fairly easily get by with English. (Although learning the local language will be a priority, as integration without it is pretty hard).

We're not going to make a decision without multiple visits and are mostly just looking for ideas and other peoples experiences.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #18 on: 03 March, 2018, 02:32:41 pm »
I shall stay near to my significant community of family and friends.   The thought of a twenty year 'holiday' takes all the joy of holidays away for me.  There are many places that I have visited from Morocco to Denmark, Brittany to Shetland that I have little fantasies about moving to but in reality there is no place like home.

Bear in mind too that expat health tourism and current rights of residency may become blurred as a result of brexit.  So many issues to be resolved.  The Daily Hate of all scribblings even did a piece some time back iirc hitting out at expats laying in the sun but taking Blighty bounty despite not contributing.

I'm a Danish national, so Brexit wont affect that. I've also lived 'abroad' for pretty much my entire adult life and the same goes for my wife.
We can put up with the Vancouver winter, so it'll take a lot of rain to discourage us :D

As for learning Portuguese, well, we would have to learn French as well and according to my Portuguese friend, you can fairly easily get by with English. (Although learning the local language will be a priority, as integration without it is pretty hard).

We're not going to make a decision without multiple visits and are mostly just looking for ideas and other peoples experiences.

There is a misconception in thinking your language skills need to be advanced in order to integrate. In fact you need to want to integrate first and the language follows as a conséquence. Just learn enough to say hello and Can I have a loaf of bread please and if you're willing the rest will follow. But it is a lot easier if your regular contacts are not ex-pat

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #19 on: 10 March, 2018, 09:55:20 am »
Southern France 'a sunny place for shady people' Somerset Maugham  :)

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #20 on: 10 March, 2018, 10:38:03 am »
Southern France 'a sunny place for shady people' Somerset Maugham  :)

He was probably talking about Brits spending the winter there pre WWII though rather than the local residents.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #21 on: 10 March, 2018, 10:51:33 am »
Southern France 'a sunny place for shady people' Somerset Maugham  :)

He probably had the Château de la Croë in mind!

If walls could talk of what they'd seen..
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #22 on: 10 March, 2018, 12:56:16 pm »
t42 is the expert, I would have thought.

My parents-in-law were retired in france. They moved back to the uk when health started to go, as they found the stress of communicating in French over health issues too great. Also, pension in france wasn't worth as much anymore.

It is sad to think that rural french villages are declining further. I liked them a great deal when spending time there in my 20s, considered moving to France. Had a 5month old baby with me and we'd get mobbed by locals as there were very few children around.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #23 on: 10 March, 2018, 07:09:54 pm »
Quote
t42 is the expert, I would have thought.

Occupez-vous de vos oignons. Oops :-[
Il connaît ses oignons!
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: Southern France (or Southern Europe in general)
« Reply #24 on: 11 September, 2018, 08:03:21 am »
So, actually had my first trip about 2 months ago. At that point, it was also very much a get away from it all trip.
Unsure where to go, I had more or less at random picked a hotel in Caunes Minervois, some 20kms from Carcassonne.
Caunes was a fairly small walled village, with about 4 restaurants, a single grocery shop and a couple of hotels...and a very charming 8th century abbey.
While that village in particular was probably too small, I had hired a car and went to see some mountain top castles near the Pyrenees and drove through several that looked livable. It was also in the middle of that heatwave, so daytime temps hit the high 30's, which wasn't that much fun...but dry enough to make it survivable.
Loved the area. Absolutely stunning. More exploration is necessary