Author Topic: How long before starting Audax?  (Read 1120 times)

DaT

How long before starting Audax?
« on: April 16, 2018, 05:16:16 pm »
I've done up to 400k on uprights but over the last week I've been riding this. https://i.redd.it/tjj1pd62ilr01.jpg
So far I have rode around 80 miles on 20 mile a day commutes and plan on doing 40/50 miles on Saturday. I'm wondering if I should enter this 200k on the 6th http://audaxkernow.co.uk/2018/01/lizard-and-the-camel-3/ 10% is on the Camel trail. I could always do the 100k if I don't feel up to the 200k on the day.

I'm finding the not only more comfortable, but also more enjoyable than DF, just need to improve my speed as I'm just over 10% slower at the moment.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2018, 06:19:40 pm »
Just go for it, what's the worst that could happen.

I managed a 112km at the weekend on my new Cruzbike after 400km on it.  At least you can't fall off a trike  :)
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2018, 06:28:46 pm »
I rode a 200, three weeks after getting my first (and current) recumbent. I had ridden just over 200km on it, when I did the 200km audax to double the distance. Go for it.

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2018, 06:34:55 pm »
10% slower is about what you'd expect for a tricycle compared to a bicycle, all else[1] being equal.  A recumbent trike gains a bit aerodynamically over an upwrong bike, so it's not quite as bad as an up-even-wronger trike.

I'd suggest getting a 100km ride under your belt before attempting a 200, but as ElyDave says, what's the worst that can happen?  You're clearly no stranger to endurance riding, just bear in mind that you're likely to be working a little bit harder than you're used to.


[1] It's mostly in the tyres.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

DaT

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2018, 06:40:42 pm »
I'll just go for it and report back in a few weeks. As you guys say, what's the worse that can happen?

Talking about tyres, the current ones are old and a bit cracked from storage while flat. I don't get punctures often maybe one every two years (famous last words) so I always just get fast tyres with little protection. Looking around, kojaks seem the best that are available in both 406 and 559, I use them on my AM Moulton (17") but this is primarily because I have no other choice. Any other recommendations?

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2018, 07:03:15 pm »
Talking about tyres, the current ones are old and a bit cracked from storage while flat. I don't get punctures often maybe one every two years (famous last words)

You'll probably get slightly more now you have three wheeltracks.  A lot of the time one wheel tends to end up in the skog.  On the other hand, two of the wheels are dead easy to fix punctures on...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

DaT

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2018, 07:28:00 pm »
Talking about tyres, the current ones are old and a bit cracked from storage while flat. I don't get punctures often maybe one every two years (famous last words)

You'll probably get slightly more now you have three wheeltracks.  A lot of the time one wheel tends to end up in the skog.  On the other hand, two of the wheels are dead easy to fix punctures on...
I did ride an upright trike for a few months, I recall one puncture on it. Didn't keep it for long though, it kept trying to kill me...

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2018, 08:27:47 pm »
I did ride an upright trike for a few months, I recall one puncture on it. Didn't keep it for long though, it kept trying to kill me...

It never ceases to amaze me that I can go from an USS recumbent bike to a USS recumbent trike without a thought, but upright trikes are the cycling equivalent of riding a horse alongside a hedge full of really exotic plastic bags.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2018, 08:44:44 pm »
Actually the problem is switching off the rider's own conditioned reflexes, not the trike's fault. Hence why tiny kids can hop on a trike for the first time and ride away; no conditioned reflexes.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2018, 10:07:00 pm »
Actually the problem is switching off the rider's own conditioned reflexes, not the trike's fault. Hence why tiny kids can hop on a trike for the first time and ride away; no conditioned reflexes.

My point exactly.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2018, 10:19:55 am »
A cyclist of my acquaintance, Trikey Dave, reckons his knupwright trike is 15% slower than a knupwright bike on a long ride. It might be that the aero advantage of a supinacious position lessen this difference. The only exception is rush hour town traffic, when he finds the trike can actually be quicker due to the ability to turn through virtually any angle at virtually zero speed; the overall width is barely wider than his elbows, so no problem from the twin tracks. Again, it could be that tadpoles don't enjoy this advantage due to greater length. I'm not sure if the track is wider. But this is a situation you're unlikely to encounter on an audax anyway! And the problem he says bicyclists always have when moving to a delta trike is running over their own feet!
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2018, 12:50:11 pm »
A cyclist of my acquaintance, Trikey Dave, reckons his knupwright trike is 15% slower than a knupwright bike on a long ride. It might be that the aero advantage of a supinacious position lessen this difference. The only exception is rush hour town traffic, when he finds the trike can actually be quicker due to the ability to turn through virtually any angle at virtually zero speed; the overall width is barely wider than his elbows, so no problem from the twin tracks. Again, it could be that tadpoles don't enjoy this advantage due to greater length.

Not so much the length, as the limited steering lock.  A typical ICE style USS arrangement is limited by when the handlebars hit either the seat, your hips or sometimes the wheels[1], and is affected by the subtleties of your ergonomic setup; barakta has a wider turning circle in an anticlockwise direction due to her handlebars being positioned for different length arms.  Upright trikes don't have this problem, and recumbent deltas - while very long - generally do a pretty good job of tight turns[2].

Of course, without a periscope, this is academic in traffic.  It's mostly about the Silly Sustrans Gates.


[1] Happens on USS bicycles too, but a bicycle doesn't actually need very much steering travel.
[2] Anyone who hasn't had the opportunity to hoon around a car park on a Kettwiesel is missing out.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2018, 06:35:07 pm »
My EZ3 delta recumbent trike has a right side drivewheel which allows a very tight turn to the right but it will turn in it's own length to the left  :)

It is also the most tame upright trike I have ever ridden ! .
the slower you go the more you see

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2018, 07:33:47 am »
I've done up to 400k on uprights but over the last week I've been riding this. https://i.redd.it/tjj1pd62ilr01.jpg
So far I have rode around 80 miles on 20 mile a day commutes and plan on doing 40/50 miles on Saturday. I'm wondering if I should enter this 200k on the 6th http://audaxkernow.co.uk/2018/01/lizard-and-the-camel-3/ 10% is on the Camel trail. I could always do the 100k if I don't feel up to the 200k on the day.

I'm finding the not only more comfortable, but also more enjoyable than DF, just need to improve my speed as I'm just over 10% slower at the moment.

Glad you like it. Removing the front mudguards will improve aerodynamics and drop the weight a bit making the trike noticeably faster, I don't have mudguards on my Catrike and don't find it a problem - 99% of spray still misses and the other 1% might get on my elbows, not a big deal.

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2018, 07:46:31 am »
I'll just go for it and report back in a few weeks. As you guys say, what's the worse that can happen?

Talking about tyres, the current ones are old and a bit cracked from storage while flat. I don't get punctures often maybe one every two years (famous last words) so I always just get fast tyres with little protection. Looking around, kojaks seem the best that are available in both 406 and 559, I use them on my AM Moulton (17") but this is primarily because I have no other choice. Any other recommendations?

A 32mm Panaracer Pasela PT is my favourite fast tyre at the moment. Have them on the Catrike and the RANS. Sadly not available as 406mm. Conti GP 28-406 was the best speed/comfort compromise but no longer available. Folding Duranos are light and quick but not as comfortable. Kojaks are wider and more comfortable but not as quick. I have a pair of boxed unused folding 28-406 Duranos which I'd part with for £30 if you are interested.

DaT

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2018, 09:05:58 am »

Glad you like it. Removing the front mudguards will improve aerodynamics and drop the weight a bit making the trike noticeably faster, I don't have mudguards on my Catrike and don't find it a problem - 99% of spray still misses and the other 1% might get on my elbows, not a big deal.

I don't want too speak too soon but riding an DF seems a bit silly now. I did a 20 miles ride on a DF two days ago and it seemed unrefined, people passed me closely again and I missed my mirrors. I wouldn't take the mudguards off as it's a QNT so the wheels aren't much further apart than the bars, if I knew it would be sunny and was doing a long ride it's only a 2 minute job to take them off.

I've ordered a set of 406-35/559-50 folding kojaks and some schwalbe lightweight innertubes to speed everything up a touch. I'm also not too keen on the bb7 brakes, there seems to be no modulation and I lock up the tyres too often, maybe this is just due to the lack of flex in the housing and cable as it's quite short. I may pick up a set of hydraulics in the future.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2018, 09:36:26 am »
Kojaks aren't particularly quick (neither are Duranos IMHO) but there aren't many quick 406 choices.

The ratio of rotor size to 406 wheel size makes the brakes more powerful than on a 700C wheel.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

DaT

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2018, 09:50:37 am »
Kojaks aren't particularly quick (neither are Duranos IMHO) but there aren't many quick 406 choices.

The ratio of rotor size to 406 wheel size makes the brakes more powerful than on a 700C wheel.
I run kojaks on my Moulton because they are all you can get in 369. They seem OK, just as good as Vittoria hypers, not even close to GP 4000s ii though. I'm toying with the idea of some hope brakes, but I'm sure slx would work fine for half the price.

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2018, 10:45:22 am »
If you do go hydraulic route then I'd suggest that you make some covers for them.
The main piston seal will face upward with vertical handlebars and you'll get dust and grit settling/resting it.
Add water to make a grinding paste and you know what's going to happen to the seal.
A thin cover zip tied around both the bottom of the brake lever and brake body itself will stop this.
I learnt the expensive way with 3 dead piston seals in 3 years.

But I do like my twin hydraulics
 

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2018, 12:40:32 pm »
Wot Tigerbiten said.  I had to do the 2006 Spurn Head 400 with only one front brake.
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DaT

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2018, 01:41:25 pm »
Should I just stick with cables then? Maybe some Spykes with high end cables?

Re: How long before starting Audax?
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2018, 08:03:00 pm »
No.
If no dust/grit gets on top of the seal then your fine.
Just find some very thin stretch fabric/neoprene.
Then sew a cover that slides down over the brake lever and covers all the top brake body.
Zip tie in place with the smallest zip ties you can find.
My last set of dead brakes had done over 3 years with no trouble before I boiled them and blew the seat that way.
Don't go down +20% hills at over 40 mph with a full camping load and expect to stop quickly.
That the other way I kill brakes .......  ;D