My first (2nd &3rd) attempt at linux

[gonzo]

There's a specific bit of software that I need to install, but unfortunately, it only comes in linux flavour. No problem thought I; linux can't be that tricky for a computer literate person like myself.

Install attempt 1:
Ubuntu is the version that I've heard good things about and so I give this a try. I rip Ubuntu to CD and install it on a computer. Due to a lack of formatable drive, I abandon installation half way through when it starts talking about how to make disk space available. Upon re-booting, I get the option of booting into Ubuntu and so give this a try. All I get is a dos type interface. It says that I should type help. I do and it doesn't. I decide to try something else...

Install attempt 2:
Install wubi on laptop. Ah ha - we have progress - I'm getting a GUI. I try to extract the install files (.gtgz) for the linux only program to a new folder. Apparently I'm not allowed to create a new folder. A quick look at a website tells me that I have to create folders in my home directory. Right, OK, fair enough. When in a foreign country... I create a new folder. Now I try to extract. Nope, it's not having any of that and gives me a very unhelpful message to tell me so. I go back online to see if there's a solution. The only solution presented online involves typing in a lot of commands. That doesn't work and I'm not getting anywhere.

I decide that the limited space available (about 10 gig for a 500mb file) might be the cause and so abandon the laptop and head back to the desktop.

Install attempt 3:
Install Wubi on desktop. System reboots and I go into Ubuntu to be faced with a command line prompt again. After a bit of looking online, it appears that newer nVidea graphics card drivers don't come bundled with linux. Again, the solution is a load of command based inputs. They don't work.

If it was windows, I would unzip the files. If it didn't, I'd get a useful message that might indicate what was wrong. I'd search online and be told what to do (with no command prompt based input). If I wasn't desperate to get this program running, I'd delete all instances of linux and pretend I'd not bothered!

I really don't see how it's at a state that people* will abandon windows in favour of Linux.

*in general
edited to include 'in general'

[border-rider]

I really don't see how it's at a state that people will abandon windows in favour of Linux.

I've put it onto more than 10 machines now without an issue.

Ubuntu Just Works - far more than Windows does, I think. And that is something that I said wasn't the case 2 years ago.

Wubi is a PITA.  If you just install Ubuntu on your hard drive as a dual boot with Win, it usually works like a dream.

Yes if you have an unsupported graphics card you need to fiddle.  But you do with Win - my Media PC took about 2 hours of solid fettling to get a functional graphics card under XP.   Compared to Ubuntu - a nightmare.

You're just more used to the ways of Win.

[gonzo]

Yes if you have an unsupported graphics card you need to fiddle.  But you do with Win - my Media PC took about 2 hours of solid fettling to get a functional graphics card under XP.   Compared to Ubuntu - a nightmare.

An unsupported card? What any card by nVidea? That's quite a big chunk of the marekt that you're knocking out!

[border-rider]

Yes if you have an unsupported graphics card you need to fiddle.  But you do with Win - my Media PC took about 2 hours of solid fettling to get a functional graphics card under XP.   Compared to Ubuntu - a nightmare.

An unsupported card? What any card by nVidea? That's quite a big chunk of the marekt that you're knocking out!

I have a supported NVIDEA card.  It's a restricted driver, but it's there.

The point I was making was that the card in my media PC was also unsupported - by Windows, out of the box.  Does that mean that Windows is "knocking out a big chunk of the market" also ?

I'd suggest it's a generic problem with installing new OSs on old machines.

I put Ubuntu on a Thinkpad for Mrs MV's mum a few months ago.  It just worked, no drama, no reboots, no 'phoning MS. Quicker, easier, tidier and far less frustrating than a Win install.

I don't think it's reasonable to extrapolate from one problem you've had with one graphics card to a general statement that it's not in a state to replace Windows.

[gonzo]

Did windows boot up in text mode?

[border-rider]

Did windows boot up in text mode?

No.  In some horrible unusable, unreadable distorted graphics mode.

The difference is that Win post NT has the GUI integrated with the OS, so if the graphics card isn't supported properly you can't do a damn thing

Linux is more like the old DOS/Win pair, with a separate GUI sitting atop an OS.  You can toast the GUI (or not have one) and still have a functional OS.  And you can do stuff like installing drivers even with no functional GUI.

On Mrs MV's home machine I've got 3 alternative windows managers/GUIs that I'm playing with.  The underlying OS is unaffected by my tinkering with them

[Bluebottle]

Never had a problem with Ubuntu - by far the easiest to install and fiddle with.  Not tried to run scientific software, mind.

Have had varying degrees of success with the aforementioned scientific software on Red Hat EL4, CentOS and Scientific Linux (I largely gave up on the latter).

[pcolbeck]

Did windows boot up in text mode?

You said you abandoned the Ubuntu install half way through. Hence it probably hadn't installed X-windows and Gnome (the GUI) at the point.

[gonzo]

Did windows boot up in text mode?

You said you abandoned the Ubuntu install half way through. Hence it probably hadn't installed X-windows and Gnome (the GUI) at the point.

When it started asking about partitioning, I abandoned.

[fred the great]

I'm not keen on command line stuff so I have installed Ubuntu Desktop upgrades on three occasions. Never a problem as it is just like Microshaft to use. Ubuntu will partition your drive for you and you then choose if you need to boot Windows or Linux. If you re-install Windows later, Microshaft will ignore the Linux OS and you can't boot it up. Hence Windows install first and Linux second.

These days my computing is quite simple using spreadsheets, open office, browsing and a couple of photo prgrammes.

[simonp]

Ubuntu just worked for me, clean install on a dual core AMD64 system.  It was a damn sight easier to install than the last time I installed Windows, which was a real PITA due to having to supply a driver floppy for the RAID controller.

[inc]

There's a specific bit of software that I need to install, but unfortunately, it only comes in linux flavour. No problem thought I; linux can't be that tricky for a computer literate person like myself.

What is the software, if it is a technical application there may be a few obscure libs it will also need which may (or not) be available for Ubuntu as they use a snapshot of Debian unstable and that brings a certain amount of incompatibility with the rest of Debian. Installing Ubuntu or any other version of Linux will mean it will need to use or create a separate partition as it uses a different file system which the partition will be formatted with. Closed source proprietary video drivers do not comply with FOSS rules so cannot ship with the distribution  but just take a few minutes to install later, the installation just  uses a standard vesa driver which works fine but with no 3d support.

[gonzo]

There's a specific bit of software that I need to install, but unfortunately, it only comes in linux flavour. No problem thought I; linux can't be that tricky for a computer literate person like myself.

What is the software, if it is a technical application there may be a few obscure libs it will also need which may (or not) be available for Ubuntu as they use a snapshot of Debian unstable and that brings a certain amount of incompatibility with the rest of Debian. Installing Ubuntu or any other version of Linux will mean it will need to use or create a separate partition as it uses a different file system which the partition will be formatted with.

The software is openFOAM.

Thanks for the info, but my view of Linux is now sufficiently jaded that I've given up with it and doubt I'll go back.

[Chris S]

Thanks for the info, but my view of Linux is now sufficiently jaded that I've given up with it and doubt I'll go back.

Pretty much exactly my feeling about Windows. In the past I've lost work, contents of entire drives (the infamous "Cannot locate xxxx.sys" when booting) and hours upon hours of my life because Windows is an inadequate operating system. In fact, "jaded" would be something of an understatement.

Sadly, I am a Windows software developer and I work for a company who develop Windows software, so I'm rather forced to bite the bullet and run Windows. Thank heavens for Virtualbox and Windows XP virtual machines that I can abuse and then throw away or revert to a known state; all hosted by a Proper OS (Ubuntu 8.10).

But I understand, Linux isn't for everyone...

Why not get a Mac? (Runs away giggling inanely).

[Woofage]

From your first post it seems to me that you have no idea how to install an OS from scratch. This is not a criticism, just an observation!

1. You need a disk partition onto which to install any OS. You can either create this beforehand using a partition editor (eg Partition Magic or boot from a Linux live CD and use Partition Editor) or use the one that comes as part of the installation routine.

2. I've never used Wubi so can't comment. When you tried to extract your file (I assume by right-clicking or double-clicking to open the archive manager) you say it gave you an error. It would be helpful if you posted the text here. Otherwise it's a bit like saying "I've got a problem with my bike".

3. Would you expect any OS to come with drivers for new hardware? For example, Windows Vista is a couple of years old so would you expect it to have a driver for a video card that was launched last month? In any case, Ubuntu will automatically detect the card and download the appropriate driver.

[Woofage]

Have you read this thread?

I agree, the installation routine is pants but this is not the fault of the OS!

Unix-like OSs have a handy copy 'n' paste feature that saves time. Just highlight the text to be copied and middle-click in the destination to paste.

[gonzo]

From your first post it seems to me that you have no idea how to install an OS from scratch. This is not a criticism, just an observation!

1. You need a disk partition onto which to install any OS. You can either create this beforehand using a partition editor (eg Partition Magic or boot from a Linux live CD and use Partition Editor) or use the one that comes as part of the installation routine.

If I'd been told that I had to reformat from the start (which is a requirement for partitioning from memory), I wouldn't have bothered. And yes, I'm well aware that I'd have been in a similar position if trying to install windows!

2. I've never used Wubi so can't comment. When you tried to extract your file (I assume by right-clicking or double-clicking to open the archive manager) you say it gave you an error. It would be helpful if you posted the text here. Otherwise it's a bit like saying "I've got a problem with my bike".

I can't remember the exact text, but it went along the lines of:
"unable to extract file
NULL"

3. Would you expect any OS to come with drivers for new hardware? For example, Windows Vista is a couple of years old so would you expect it to have a driver for a video card that was launched last month? In any case, Ubuntu will automatically detect the card and download the appropriate driver.

Not the latest drivers, but I wouldn't expect do be dumped in DOS and told to get them from there to let the GUI work.

Thanks for the link Woofage - I might give it another go (how's that for a rapid change of view?) once I've got a little more free time. I've got a disk that I can format and partition properly too for use with Ubuntu.

[simonp]

From your first post it seems to me that you have no idea how to install an OS from scratch. This is not a criticism, just an observation!

1. You need a disk partition onto which to install any OS. You can either create this beforehand using a partition editor (eg Partition Magic or boot from a Linux live CD and use Partition Editor) or use the one that comes as part of the installation routine.

If I'd been told that I had to reformat from the start (which is a requirement for partitioning from memory), I wouldn't have bothered. And yes, I'm well aware that I'd have been in a similar position if trying to install windows!

Tools like partition magic can repartition a drive without formatting.  I always think of these things as a bit risky though since if it goes wrong half-way then you lose everything.

Partition magic once crashed on me when I was repartitioning - it just got stuck.  After 20 minutes I hit the reset button.  It turned out everything was fine, it had done all the work but then stopped rather than rebooting correctly.

If you run a second OS under something like vmware (or virtualbox under ubuntu) then you don't need to repartition as you can use a large file on the disk as a virtual drive. In this scenario you have access to both operating systems at the same time, which is often useful.

[pcolbeck]

Not the latest drivers, but I wouldn't expect do be dumped in DOS and told to get them from there to let the GUI work.

Hmm XP and SATA drivers. Does exactly the same thing often. You either have to slip stream them into the XP install CD or have them ready on a floppy disk as you cant access the CD if that's SATA as well ....

[ScumOfTheRoad]

"After a bit of looking online, it appears that newer nVidea graphics card drivers don't come bundled with linux. Again, the solution is a load of command based inputs. They don't work."

Hold on there a bit.
Linux is open source software - Nvidia as a company provides Linux drivers, but these are not open source, which prevents many distributions from shipping the accelerated Nvidia drivers. I personally have never seen a machine for donkeys years which will not fire up in graphical mode - at the very least they come up in "VESA Framebuffer" mode, which allows you to run a decent desktop, till you download the Nvidia drivers.


Also, if you don't fancy re-partitioning your drive to run this piece of software, have you considered trying a Live-CD(DVD)? The Ubuntu DVD you have should just boot off the DVD drive and come up as a fully-fledged system - using RAM rather than a hard drive.
The most well known Live-DVD is Knoppix if Ubuntu doesn't work for you.

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Thanks for the link Woofage - I might give it another go (how's that for a rapid change of view?) once I've got a little more free time. I've got a disk that I can format and partition properly too for use with Ubuntu.

Good stuff. I see you are looking at using OpenFOAM. I have an earlier version on my home workstation, under SuSE Linux. In fact, and I don't want to spark a distro war, you might give SuSE more consideration - in my finding, it is more usual to see scientific and CFD applications running under SuSE than anything else.
Let me know when you get to the stage of installing it and I'll see if I can help - though I should explain that I'm not a CFD expert.

And please give some thought to SuSE 11 - you will get a very capable scientific workstation by using it. (Not to blow my own trumpet, but I ...errrr.... manage CFD systems as a day job).

Whoops - looks like Paraview on SuSE 11 needs another library version installing
http://www.opencfd.co.uk/openfoam/doc/README.html#Qt
Welcome to Linux. Ahem.

[Woofage]

Thanks for the link Woofage - I might give it another go (how's that for a rapid change of view?) once I've got a little more free time. I've got a disk that I can format and partition properly too for use with Ubuntu.

Another top tip: when you partition your disk, make 2 partitions (plus swap): one for the file system (say 10GB), the rest for /home. If you completely bork your system, or just fancy a re-install or upgrade, all your settings and documents will be preserved even if the main system partition is reformatted. Unlike windows, the presence of a separate partition is completely transparent to the user, ie no c and d drive nonsense .

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Ps. regarding repartitioning your disk, or installing a second disk on your machine,
how's about giving it a try with not touching your hard drives?

CAElinux

OK, so it hase OpenFOAM 1.4.1 which is by now out of date, but hell's bells I think I get an "attaboy" for finding this for you!

[gonzo]

Thanks for the advice, but before I try more complex stuff like choosing another version of the OS, I'd like to get the basics working 1st! I now have a GUI (found by typing "exit" into a command prompt that the boot sequence stuck at.

This is the message  get when trying to open the avira antivirus setup .exe:

[/home/rob/Programs/Avira/basic/setup.exe]
  End-of-central-directory signature not found.  Either this file is not
  a zipfile, or it constitutes one disk of a multi-part archive.  In the
  latter case the central directory and zipfile comment will be found on
  the last disk(s) of this archive.
zipinfo:  cannot find zipfile directory in one of /home/rob/Programs/Avira/basic/setup.exe or
          /home/rob/Programs/Avira/basic/setup.exe.zip, and cannot find /home/rob/Programs/Avira/basic/setup.exe.ZIP, period.

Any ideas?

[ScumOfTheRoad]

Gonzo, a setup.exe file would be a Windows executable - most likely an installation utility for this antivirus software.
Are you sure you did not download the Windows version rather than the Linux version?