Author Topic: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay  (Read 1544 times)

Sigurd Mudtracker

Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« on: 30 March, 2009, 10:50:35 am »
I'm hoping to sell my 2005 (last model) Apple iBook.  The official reason is that I no longer use it, having upgraded to an Intel MacBook; the unofficial reason is to go towards upgrading my Brompton to something with Ti in it, perhaps...

Are there any pitfalls in doing so?  Specifically, what are the risks of my identity being thieved and malefactors extracting personal information about me?

I contemplated switching out the hard disk but having read some of the how-to guides on the internet have decided that there is possibly a high risk that I will be left with an useless chunk of polycarbonate, given my technical expertise in this area.  There are no Apple dealers nearby that might do the job for me.  I have instead had my MacBook do a 35-pass erase on the iBook's hard disk (which took the best part of 3 days).

Should this be enough?  There are comforting comments on the Disk Utility window which says that a 7-pass erase meets US Federal Government requirements, so presumably 35-pass should be 5 times better.  Are there any other issues I've missed?

Prices of recent iBooks look quite good, so I might get a titanium folding pedal bolt on the new one at least...

Re: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« Reply #1 on: 30 March, 2009, 11:04:31 am »

I tried to sell an expensive notebook a couple of months ago and PayPal held the funds after the sell until the buyer posted a favorable feedback.  This policy was totally new to me but it seems that they consider computers to be a high risk item and unless you have 100 or more positive feedbacks may institute this procedure.

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
    • charlottebarnes.co.uk
Re: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« Reply #2 on: 30 March, 2009, 11:25:38 am »
I flogged a laptop a couple of weeks ago and apart from gouging me on the commission, it was fine.  They certainly never withheld my payment (although I have much more than 100 positive feedbacks).

Prior to sale, the hard drive got hit with Darik's Boot and Nuke and a clean OS install.  Nobody's going to recover anything from that and I'm given to understand that there's a version for MacPerverts  ;)
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

Sigurd Mudtracker

Re: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« Reply #3 on: 31 March, 2009, 10:54:48 pm »
Thanks for the advice.  I shall probably play it doubly safe and unleash a Mac equivalent of Boot and Nuke on the iBook's hard drive.

Re: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« Reply #4 on: 31 March, 2009, 11:42:07 pm »
Whilst you can read a disc which has been over-written, this shouldn't be a problem:

(i) The more times you over write, the less easy it will be to recover the original data.  If this over writing has been with random data (strictly speaking, pseudo-random, but that's probably close enough), it will be very hard to recover the original data.  Thirty Five over write cycles should have effectively wiped out anything (and this is all Boot and Nuke does, although I'm not sure how many cycles it goes through).

(ii) To recover information requires very invasive work on the disc, at a minimum you would need to replace the drive electronics.  To read the data, in essence there is still some element of the previous write.  For example, say you had written a bit as a one, and then a zero, there could still be a slight remnant of the one bit, but as a logical bit (which is what the drive will normally want to read) it would look like a zero.  With suitable analysis of the analogue data, you could recover some remnant data.

If you've formatted the entire disc (and presumably will give the buyer the original OS discs, so they can reinstall at their leisure) then I seriously doubt anyone who had capabilities less than a serious forensics laboratory would have any chance of recovering any data.  With multiple random overwrites, it's probably beyond even the most advanced techniques.

Of course, governments are very very paranoid about such things.  Not only do they want to guarantee that data has been erased, but they want to guarantee that no possibly developments in technology may allow data to be recovered in the future.  The only real way to ensure that there is no even slight risk of data coming back from the bit bin, is to mechanically destroy the disc, ie melt it down, or grind it up.  This is probably unnecessary to protect your credit card details buried somewhere in the remnants of your web browsers cache, and the odd salacious email. ;D
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Sigurd Mudtracker

Re: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« Reply #5 on: 01 April, 2009, 08:37:56 pm »
That's very reassuring.

In the past when I have disposed or recycled old PCs, I've removed the hard disk and gone into the garage with a huge mallet and vented all my pent up aggression for half and hour - very therapeutic.  Perhaps an angle grinder would be more satisfying.

However it would hopefully seem that the more intellectual excercise of rewriting is almost as effective.

Re: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« Reply #6 on: 01 April, 2009, 09:19:38 pm »
Do be careful if you accept payment via Paypal (which if you're selling via ebay you may be forced to).

Paypal make it trivially easy for fraudsters to rob unwary sellers. Fraudsters are attracted to high value/easily re-sellable items like laptops.

Understand that just because Paypal report they have received funds, doesn't necessarily mean you will ever get to see them. Paypal being paid is not the same as you being paid.

Make sure you only post to the confirmed address of the Paypal account holder, and using a fully tracked and signed for service. Don't allow anyone to pay via Paypal and then collect the item in person. Don't fall for the old "third person cheque" chestnut, or any of the (mostly obvious) fake payment received/in escrow type emails.

Sorry to be so cynical, or patronising, if you already knew all this.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« Reply #7 on: 01 April, 2009, 11:03:46 pm »
How much you want for it?

What are the specs?

Sigurd Mudtracker

Re: Pitfalls of selling a laptop on eBay
« Reply #8 on: 02 April, 2009, 09:14:38 pm »
Do be careful if you accept payment via Paypal (which if you're selling via ebay you may be forced to).

So far (touch wood) I haven't had any problem buying or selling on eBay and have accepted Paypal in selling some diving equipment that was reasonably pricey.  My current gripe is with the new policy of Paypal hanging onto funds as Charlotte has described.  I've also heard that personal cheques (waiting for them to clear into your bank account) is not failsafe either, and I suspect this will lead to auction prices compared with Paypal.  I guess you take a calculated risk.  Living Far From Civilisation it's more than likely that any buyers will be a long way away and so the collect in person and hand over a wodge of used notes option is not really available.  Any suggestions of a safer method?

How much you want for it?

What are the specs?

It's a 14" iBook G4, one of the last ones made - the Intel MacBooks came out about a month after I got my iBook.  Initially I was frustrated but this turned to a warm glow of satisfaction when all the overheating and other problems of the first generation MacBooks came to light.  It's in pretty good condition, very light scratching on the case which I think is pretty much unavoidable.  It has a 60Gb HDD and 1.5Gb RAM, I'd be including the install discs for Tiger but it has the current edition of Leopard installed (or will have when I get round to doing it - at the moment it has a pristinely clean hard drive).

I was considering a BIN for £350 on eBay or best offer.