I'm fairly sure that focussing on his pronunciation (Yuman and reconise are my particular favourites) isn't what I was supposed to be doing as he guided me through replacing Gremlins with Autopilots.
*bzzt* deviation. That's spelling.I think she means the pronunciation of the word pronunciation as pronounciation.
:facepalm:
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.Quibbling about f for th when you write 'your' rather than 'you're' is a bit rich, isn't it?
Quibbling about f for th when you write 'your' rather than 'you're' is a bit rich, isn't it?
Quibbling about f for th when you write 'your' rather than 'you're' is a bit rich, isn't it?You're right about your spelling, but this is a thread about pronunciation.
Whilst watching an amp guru on YouTube explain about fettling guitar amps he pronounced "soldering" as "sodering" repeatedly. Also "soder" instead of "solder" He was American but still ...
Who loves ornj soda?
Kel loves ornj soda!
For the last couple of weeks we've had to suffer the mangling of "Machynlleth" in more ways than I thought possible. The only person who could pronounce it correctly was the BBC's Rhun ap Iorwerth. Unfortunately, none of his BBC colleagues can pronounce "Rhun ap Iorwerth"...
'pacific.
Nulclear - John Craven does this all the time
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.
It is increasingly common to see in print the mispronunciation of "would have" to "would of". I guess that in childhood people hear "would've" and misunderstand it as "would of".
It is increasingly common to see in print the mispronunciation of "would have" to "would of". I guess that in childhood people hear "would've" and misunderstand it as "would of".
Indeed. I only learned about "would have" several years after I learned to write, when teachers started to care about that sort of error. The combination of hearing loss and estuary accents meant that I was extremely confused by the correction.
Indeed. I only learned about "would have" several years after I learned to write, when teachers started to care about that sort of error. The combination of hearing loss and estuary accents meant that I was extremely confused by the correction.
Whereas I had it drummed out of me before I was 11...
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.
My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.
I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.
"fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.
My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.
I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.
I'm that oddity ;D
I used to pronounce (and sms) something as somethink. But only to one person as I knew it really annoyed her to hear/read it. Perhaps I should send her the link to this thread (fred?!) :demon:
What about I'd've - as in I'd've gone home if I needed to .
Double contraction of I would have. Is the 've there also pronounced I'd of?
Mrs B rarely gets 'l' & 'r' wrong, although she grew up speaking a language in which there's no distinction between them, & has no problems with 'think' & 'that', although Japanese doesn't have either of the sounds we write 'th'."fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.
My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.
I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.
Whilst watching an amp guru on YouTube explain about fettling guitar amps he pronounced "soldering" as "sodering" repeatedly. Also "soder" instead of "solder" He was American but still ...
Whilst watching an amp guru on YouTube explain about fettling guitar amps he pronounced "soldering" as "sodering" repeatedly. Also "soder" instead of "solder" He was American but still ...
They all say it that way. I've worked in solder for years, I still find it oddly annoying.
I don't think it makes me cringe as such but I am interested in the variety of pronunciation of "mountain". I say it "Mountin" but some people (for example Wowbagger) give a definite "aine" at the end.
I picked this up when I lived there and worked with electronics engineers. The mechanical engineers would laugh at me for saying aluminium as opposed to aluminum - I refused to bow to peer pressure.
As for cross disciplinary hysterics, I once gave a whole table of mathematician and physicist types the giggles by referring to the square root of -1 as 'j'. On explaining the basis of the habit, they laughed harder.;D
Mrs B rarely gets 'l' & 'r' wrong, although she grew up speaking a language in which there's no distinction between them, & has no problems with 'think' & 'that', although Japanese doesn't have either of the sounds we write 'th'."fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.
My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.
I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.
Unless you have a hearing impairment, there's no excuse.
Don't be bloody stupid. Did I mention accents? Did I claim that Mrs B speaks English with no discernible Japanese accent? Or suggest that would be desirable?Mrs B rarely gets 'l' & 'r' wrong, although she grew up speaking a language in which there's no distinction between them, & has no problems with 'think' & 'that', although Japanese doesn't have either of the sounds we write 'th'."fink" and "fing" instead of "think" and "thing", I'm all for regional accents and street slang but when your a middle aged academic with a doctorate lecturing in English at a major university and taking part in a discussion on Radio 4 that's just an affectation I'm afraid.
My ex-boss at Velo Vision says 'fing' and 'fink'. It's just his accent/speaking voice, no affectation.
I'm sure someone on here recently said they can't hear the difference between f and th. Just an oddity of human senses, I guess, like colour blindness.
Unless you have a hearing impairment, there's no excuse.
Well, bully for Mrs B.
Did you mean to sound quite so patronising and superior? Are we all to speak without accents of any kind?
If the academic mentioned was, say, a mathematician or archaeologist, I wouldn't give a damn how he pronounces anything, as long as it's comprehensible. But he isn't.
Janury, Febry, jewllery.
Janury, Febry, jewlery.
What's wrong with the first and third of those? That's what they sound like to me.
Janury, Febry, jewlery.
What's wrong with the first and third of those? That's what they sound like to me.
January, jewelry not jew-lery
Janury, Febry, ..
Have I mentioned this one before:
When doing the Christmas reading at church a couple of years ago, the 12-year-old who has been going to church her whole life pronounced Pontius Pilate as "pee-lah-tay", like the exercise. Fab!
Colleague.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Iel3IXJ_g7A/STVZoxXvV1I/AAAAAAAAGHA/oIc4nMIHsbM/s400/panettone.jpg)
is not
(http://www.pantone.co.uk/images/zoomify/GP1501/GP1501_files/10/1_0.jpg)
Every. Fucking. Day.
I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
You call Glastonbury “Glasto”
You’d like to go there one day
When they’ve put up the gun towers
To keep the hippies away
Sang-wich
New-car-sulI hope you won't mind if I stick with
Glars-go
I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
New-car-sulI hope you won't mind if I stick with
Glars-go
I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"
(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P
Ms Vecht accepts loads of Brits can't do a guttural 'ch'. Twas ever thus.USian influence?
I've lived with it for >50 years.
What got me more at school was people calling Wolfgang Amadeus 'Mozart' with a buzzing z.
Inability to do gutturals is understandable; unwillingness to do the easy ts instead of z is just wrong.
Someone who shall remain nameless, new to Devon, went into a shop and asked for a pasty. She rhymed it with tasty.I am very innocent, but doesnt that make it a (very small) item of clkothing? :O
New-car-sulI hope you won't mind if I stick with
Glars-go
I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"
(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P
Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims :facepalm:
USian influence?
Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims :facepalm:
Did they cringe or just look blank?
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole
Bir-ming-ham ;D
Oi, John Humphreys. Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"
Get a grip!
Oi, John Humphreys. Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"Oi, Basil. That's Humphrys. No "e". Get a grip! (Insert yellow face thing of choice)
Get a grip!
Oi, John Humphreys. Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"Oi, Basil. That's Humphrys. No "e". Get a grip! (Insert yellow face thing of choice)
Get a grip!
I thought that the BBC's change in pronunciation of Kabul, when it miraculously started rhyming with "marble", was quite amusing. This occurred just around the time that they became aware of Afghanistan's existence, when Russia invaded.
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole
Bir-ming-ham ;D
Oi, John Humphreys. Brian Redhead never told me that it was "huff past seven"Oi, Basil. That's Humphrys. No "e". Get a grip! (Insert yellow face thing of choice)
Get a grip!
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.But not papier-mâché.
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.
I don't think that's particularly odd. Americans tend to think you're an uneducated oaf if you don't, so I'm sure they all learn quickly enough. Which makes for an interesting culture clash when they encounter the great British tradition of pronouncing words borrowed from French as Englishly as possible, presumably on general principle. Indeed, the rule seems to be that BRITONS are only allowed to use the French pronunciation when actually speaking French, lest they be perceived to be pretentious.
I find the whole thing somewhat amusing, even though it leaves me with the same sort of cognitive unease that I get when I can't decide whether to use a northern or southern 'a' sound (which is most of the time, as they both seem wrong and liable to result in piss-taking).
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.
I don't think that's particularly odd. Americans tend to think you're an uneducated oaf if you don't, so I'm sure they all learn quickly enough. Which makes for an interesting culture clash when they encounter the great British tradition of pronouncing words borrowed from French as Englishly as possible, presumably on general principle. Indeed, the rule seems to be that BRITONS are only allowed to use the French pronunciation when actually speaking French, lest they be perceived to be pretentious.
I find the whole thing somewhat amusing, even though it leaves me with the same sort of cognitive unease that I get when I can't decide whether to use a northern or southern 'a' sound (which is most of the time, as they both seem wrong and liable to result in piss-taking).
In French the "u" sound gets a lot of UKians, who tend to bring it out like the "oo" in "too". I have no trouble with either sound now, but back when we were first in France I used to get them mixed up occasionally, so that one day my polite "merci beaucoup" to a waitress came out as "merci beau cul", i.e. "thank-you, beautiful bum". Got me a smile.I've given up using schwul as my pronunciation of u and ü is too similar - I use feucht now.
Funnily enough, German has the same sort of pitfall. "Heut ists schwul" will get you queer looks.
Oddly, Americans do tend to pronounce 'fillet' and 'niche' à la française. Except it's not odd, it just is.But not papier-mâché.
Lah-tay. Of course, it's another mute point but I did save someone on a skiing holiday in Italy from ordering a glass of milk when they wanted the coffee.A silent point or a moot one?
And coming back to French from Italian, the killing blow as 'coup de gras'. What an odd image that conjures up.
So- li - hull, or Solly 'ole
Bir-ming-ham ;D
I've been saying for years that the BBC should pronounce place names as they're pronounced by the people who live there.
See my earlier post referring to 'mute points'Lah-tay. Of course, it's another mute point but I did save someone on a skiing holiday in Italy from ordering a glass of milk when they wanted the coffee.A silent point or a moot one?
And coming back to French from Italian, the killing blow as 'coup de gras'. What an odd image that conjures up.
(This thread is a repository for pedants, after all)
How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?I alway pronounce Thierry the english way.
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
i've recently heard a lot of coverage for the film:
"Gone Girl".
For a while I suspected it was called "GARN Girl".
Surely "Gone" rhymes with One, On and Won. Not with Yarn. ???
(The culprits have mainly been pure RP speakers. Ish.)
How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
i've recently heard a lot of coverage for the film:
"Gone Girl".
For a while I suspected it was called "GARN Girl".
Surely "Gone" rhymes with One, On and Won. Not with Yarn. ???
(The culprits have mainly been pure RP speakers. Ish.)
Hugo Chavez is one of the ones you hear all the time. I know a Spanish speaker pronounces Hugo Ugo but we aren't Spanish. They don't pronounce Irish names with an Irish accent for gods sake.
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
Many foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would.
Imagine how wonderful and interesting the world would be if everyone spoke identically and used received pronunciation. Why we could even have Pathe News reels back at the cinemas.
I hope nobody here ever visits Ireland because dat would be a terrible ting for your helt.
I disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
Many foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would. I do correct people who spell it 'Iain' though. The only true Ians are cycloptic Ians.
QuoteMany foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would.
I don't think it's necessarily about correcting, or forcing. If I don't know how to pronounce a name or find it difficult, I welcome the chance to do someone the courtesy of pronouncing it a bit closer to how it's meant to be said. I'd rather they said something than listen to me cock it up again and again.
I got a bit confused when following some badly-scribbled road directions on my way by car to Germany because Liege disappeared but I kept seeing this place called Leuk on the signposts.Sort of like the time I ended up cycling through the middle of San Sebastian because this place "Donostia" on the signposts wasn't on my map and therefore too small to be worth avoiding.
I got a bit confused when following some badly-scribbled road directions on my way by car to Germany because Liege disappeared but I kept seeing this place called Leuk on the signposts.
Coming back to just English, there are words we read and understand as children but do not hear pronounced for decades.
Yeah, they'll say z instead of s. ;DI disagree - if it's someone's name it's downright rude not to pronounce it the way they do. It's not the same as an accent, the name does not have an H sound in it so don't put one in. How would you pronounce Thierry Henry?
Many foreigners have an awful time pronouncing 'Ian' in the proper way. I don't go around correcting them and forcing them to say it as I would. I do correct people who spell it 'Iain' though. The only true Ians are cycloptic Ians.
That's a fair point, all languages have sounds in them that non-native speakers find difficult or impossible. Certainly the newsreaders referred to by pcolbeck would not get Hugo Chavez's surname correct as the Spanish v does not have an exact match in English, they'll probably get the z wrong too and the o at the end of Hugo. But that is not an excuse for saying we should deliberately pronounce Hugo as "Hyoogoe" instead of "oogo" because "we're not Spanish".
There used to be a current of opinion that held correct pronunciation of foreign names to be unpatriotic, particularly in the diplomatic services. Dunno if it still persists.
STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through. ::-)
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.
One of these days, the English will learn to pronounce their towns' names correctly. Either that or learn how to spell them correctly.
Jillingham in Kent and Guillingham in Dorset, innit?Exactly.
Jillingham in Kent and Guillingham in Dorset, innit?Exactly.
Anstruther is near Kilconquhar. :smug:STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through. ::-)
So enlighten me.
What is the correct pronunciation?
STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through. ::-)
ee-BOW-la. Argh. EBB-oh-la, ya twit.
On an otherwise excellent Radio 4 program about how navigation works in the brain the (British) presenter repeatedly said "ee-ko-location" instead of "e-cho-location". Its echo not eco for heaven's sake.
Hmmm. you're touching on running-together-of-words there - potentially a huge area for cringes.
(it may be a regional thing in the UK - always a sensitive area! <ducks> )
Oh, I see - then I misunderstood you, sorry.Hmmm. you're touching on running-together-of-words there - potentially a huge area for cringes.
(it may be a regional thing in the UK - always a sensitive area! <ducks> )
Not at all - it may be a FOREIGN word, but it has its own BRITISH pronunciation: VERR-muth not va-MOOTH. Whatever next? Te-MAY-doh?
STV are currently showing a programme about Anstruther (no, I don't know why either) and the narrator has pronounced it Anstruther all the way through. ::-)
In my, albeit limited, experience Anstruther is only Ainster in and around Anstruther. Other places regularly mispronounced by Southerly broadcasters include;
Stran-REAR - Stranraer (Stran-RARR)
Cairnyarn - Cairnryan
Kircudbright (Kir-COOB-ri) and Milngavie (Mill-GYE) attract more mispronunciations than you can shake a stick at.
On R4 recently (Today programme guest presenter, possibly?)
UEFA as " ooo-EEE-far "
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.
They probably also say "drawring room".
pt. 94 of "experts who should know better"
Economist journalist on More or Less: "Racey-oh"
Over and over again...
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.
They probably also say "drawring room".
;D
"Lar-tay"
:sick:
Pretentious wine drinkers who go to great lengths to pronounce 'cabernet sauvignon' with authenticity, but then say 'carver' for 'cava'. An old chestnut I have no doubt mentioned before, but it still grates.
They probably also say "drawring room".
;D
"Lar-tay"
:sick:
It's worth goign to Italy to see what happens when a Brit orders Latte in a caff ;D :demon:
If you don't know(click to show/hide)
But then she lives in Islington and also asks waiters "Can I get..." when ordering food, so there is no hope, I'm afraid.
Lattes are on the way out. Flat whites are the new latte. It's the velvety microfoam, and the antipodean influence on London
why pronounce a Spanish word as if it's anglicised Italian?
Reciprient.
I only spell it, and say it, with the one 'r'. Where did the other one spring from? ::-)
Arrgh BBC radio news. Why did you deicide to pronounce Volkswagen and Audi in the English way but decide that Skoda should be Sssschoodah ?
Can't you at least be consistent in the same sentence ?
My former manager had a thick Coventry accent but, in an attempt to appear posh, pronounced "because" as a very affected "becorse" rather than the expected "becoz".
'Either' and 'Neither'
Why can't people pronounce them proper like?
My fuse didn't come close to running out as she bellowed her way through the menu with her fat arse perched upon a stool sending her long suffering back and forth to the tribe outside to verify every choice and option. Almost last she asked what do you get with the fush and chups.
But at least we can pronounce the letter R. ;)
Jeremy Paxman, use the word "newmonic" once more and I will twat you with Mr Shovel before affording you a Tibetan Sky Burial only in Trafalgar Square. With pigeons.
Jeremy Paxman, use the word "newmonic" once more and I will twat you with Mr Shovel before affording you a Tibetan Sky Burial only in Trafalgar Square. With pigeons.
Not cringeworthy as such, but idiosyncratic.
Mrs. Wow and I have been discussing, over lunch, the importance of the question "Why do Mancunians and their elk pronounce "Blackley" blakely?"
Foreigners talking funny. Something must be done. A damnable pastime indeed.
like Gladly, the strabismic ursine? ;)
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"
I'm fairly sure this is the only way I've ever heard it. How would you pronounce it?
like Gladly, the strabismic ursine? ;)
like Gladly, the strabismic ursine? ;)
Convergent strabismus on Calvary...
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"
I'm fairly sure this is the only way I've ever heard it. How would you pronounce it?
With the stress on the 'ef'. But perhaps see 'controversy'.
On the radio this morning: "ef-fic'acy"
I'm fairly sure this is the only way I've ever heard it. How would you pronounce it?
With the stress on the 'ef'. But perhaps see 'controversy'.
Oh, I see. I hadn't understood that you meant stressing the second syllable. I'm with you now.
Perhaps all these cringe threads should be shoved into a 'pedants' corner'.
Perhaps all these cringe threads should be shoved into a 'pedants' corner'.
They already are: YACF
I think that tends to be a spelling problem rather than a pronunciation one. Understandable when comparing with chose/choose
I think that tends to be a spelling problem rather than a pronunciation one.
I think that tends to be a spelling problem rather than a pronunciation one.
It's also an easy typo, which the spillchucker won't spot, so it looks like you're illiterate. :(
Spillchucker is often your fiend.
There is a R4 programme on at the moment discussing "pattents".
When did a patent become a pattent? No one refers to "pattent leather" and nothing has ever been "pattently obvious" to anyone, so why the widespread mispronunciation of this word?
There is a R4 programme on at the moment discussing "pattents".
When did a patent become a pattent? No one refers to "pattent leather" and nothing has ever been "pattently obvious" to anyone, so why the widespread mispronunciation of this word?
6Music newsreader described someone as self-depreciating :facepalm: :)
I think we've had it before, but Don McLean's blatant "Febuary" in "American Pie" made me cringe the other day.How else would it scan in the song?
Not 'shiver' ?
Is that worse or better than 'parsty'?
Sorry if it's been said before but moosecasters who refer to a minister as the Seckertree of State should be shot through the lungs...
And the same goes for USAnians who think SCIENTISTS work in labratories.
Miss Z the younger pronounces "library" as "lah-bray". This seems worryingly common in the village.
Annoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".
Annoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".I've never thought of calling a Lancia a 'Lanseer'. To me. it'd be like saying 'makizmo' when meaning that fine Spanish word machismo ('machissmo'), or 'Byoonuss Air-ez' instead of 'Bwennoss Eye-ress', or the 'J' in Rio de Janeiro as in 'jam'. But I do say Meksiko & Kyooba.
"Tern" with a southron R or a real one?As in the way David Attenborough would say "Arctic Tern"
Annoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".I've never thought of calling a Lancia a 'Lanseer'. To me. it'd be like saying 'makizmo' when meaning that fine Spanish word machismo ('machissmo'), or 'Byoonuss Air-ez' instead of 'Bwennoss Eye-ress', or the 'J' in Rio de Janeiro as in 'jam'. But I do say Meksiko & Kyooba.
"Tern" with a southron R or a real one?As in the way David Attenborough would say "Arctic Tern"
I had to think about lah-tay for a moment. ;DAnnoyingly, this pronunciation is probably correct, but I was listening to Joanna Lumley read On Her Majesty's Secret Service the other day, where she kept referring to an Italian car as a "Lanch-ah", rather than the anglicised "Lan-seer".I've never thought of calling a Lancia a 'Lanseer'. To me. it'd be like saying 'makizmo' when meaning that fine Spanish word machismo ('machissmo'), or 'Byoonuss Air-ez' instead of 'Bwennoss Eye-ress', or the 'J' in Rio de Janeiro as in 'jam'. But I do say Meksiko & Kyooba.
Yes, but you probably also refuse to say lah-tay and koritzo.
These are words that have been anglicised in exactly the same way that only pretentious wankers in the UK say Pareee.
When we were driving round our new area when we first got to France we referred to La Ferté Alais as Farty Alice.
Nope - too many t's.Nope, cos it's a joke to do with gentrification. The town is pronounced "yeht" the joke is that it's now "yah-tay".
Nope - too many t's.
Ian -
Yeah, fine. Choreezo & lattay are OK. Infinitely preferable to the faux-foreign versions that get the bloody languages wrong. Though I don't know what's wrong with saying 'milk' instead of saying it in (usually mispronounced) Italian.
I have been informed that one should not try that in Italy.Nope - too many t's.
Ian -
Yeah, fine. Choreezo & lattay are OK. Infinitely preferable to the faux-foreign versions that get the bloody languages wrong. Though I don't know what's wrong with saying 'milk' instead of saying it in (usually mispronounced) Italian.
Because I want milky coffee rather than a glass of hot milk? That's a lat-tay.
USAnia is not immune, with its Cheesypeas Bay and Lake Haversack City.
USAnia is not immune, with its Cheesypeas Bay and Lake Haversack City.
And the seminal Yo! Semite!
There's nobody here today. They're all at the National Arbortorium;D :facepalm:
We'll have no anti-yosemitism in here!USAnia is not immune, with its Cheesypeas Bay and Lake Haversack City.
And the seminal Yo! Semite!
;D
*actually this is common, if you're British and you ever speak to an American, look for that half-second cognitive gap before theyHow many times was I asked that one? ::-)catchask if you're Australian – if, on the other hand, you're British and have a strong dialect, look for two day cognitive gap before they go back to Boston and confess they didn't understand a single word that anyone said to them during the previous two days.
"Ayup miduck, yahreet?"
"Orlright, marrah, burrahm not backter wok yit. Ows yer babbi?"
"Oh, eez pawleh, an ees grizzlin cosee bont hissen on the stoave too. Learn im ter keep is dannies off tho."
"Bet yer missis wuz fritterdeth!"
"Sheworratthat, but she'll coap. Where yowoff"?"
"Ahm gooin uptahn"
"Yawarkin, errint car?"
"Car? Ah soadit ter that immazatoadyabaht, as bought ahr Tracey's ahse"
"Im wi nebbeh wahf?"
"Yeah, ee paid five undred quid an she were reet mardy, ad a baggon for days"
"Ahl gerterahrahse! Yow spawni bogga, it want woth arfa that!"
"Ah know, but ee were needeh"
"Well, ahd better goo backom, bit black ovver Bills"
"Well, tek care, me owd"
The ultimate challenge for non French speakers is to get directions to Reims from a local.
(FTR, the pronunciation is nearer to R-r-rums, Reems will get you a VERY blank look)
ETA - MP3 here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9T4PWP3pT5mcF8xbFJYS19aRjA/edit)
The US pronunciation of "buoy" as "booie".Apparently restricted to certain parts of the US (they say "boy" elsewhere) but notorious for its use in "Crimson Tide".
You'll be pleased to know that Lifebuoy soap is pronounced in the thread-approved manner throughout the US.
(I've only heard boo-ey out in the west and let's face it, buoy just ain't a word for the respectin' cowboy, it's certainly 'boy' up in New England and down the eastern seaboard.)
In France it still rhymes with bike, because the the Arabic verb "to fuck" has been adopted into French as "niquer". So if your name is Nicolas watch out how you introduce yourself, esp to Arabs. Saying "je m'appelle Neek" to someone's sister could be fatal.I was once romantically involved with a woman called Mutiatu Agbeke Omobonike Imoru, or Nike for short. She was 'Knee-Kay'
Vanessa Feltz ...offended my ears.Surely?
Did that historian on Netflix's fetchingly-titled Rome: Reign of Blood really pronounce Epictitus as Epic Titties? Maybe his mind was elsewhere.Epictetus, surely?
Another one prompted by R2: Firm Bottom referred to the Kiki Dee song Amoureuse as if it should rhyme with 'moose'. I'd bet she says massoose instead of masseuse. And probably refers to male masseurs as massooses. :facepalm:
The US pronunciation of "buoy" as "booie".
Booie is East Anglian. The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.
If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you. Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.
Booie is East Anglian. The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.
If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you. Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.
Satnav can be WEIRD everywhere! Last week it told my driver to 'Turn right onto the Aten Undred' and only my local knowledge recognised this as the A1000...
American satnavs name Colindeep Lane Co-LINE-deep Lane.
The US pronunciation of "buoy" as "booie".
How do you pronounce ‘buoy’? In this bonus episode, we explore the history of the word and the reasons why the word is pronounced differently in various parts of the English-speaking world. (http://historyofenglishpodcast.com/2013/10/29/bonus-episode-4-let-me-buoy-your-spirits/)
Booie is East Anglian. The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.
If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you. Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.
Satnav can be WEIRD everywhere! Last week it told my driver to 'Turn right onto the Aten Undred' and only my local knowledge recognised this as the A1000...
American satnavs name Colindeep Lane Co-LINE-deep Lane.
I am aware of certain satnavs that like to include the postcode when they read out the address or instructions, but haven't quite got the hang of splitting the letters and numbers up - "Turn left onto Trafalgar Road Sehten."
Awre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre)
I've not been there, but I have seen signposts pointing to it. How the blurry eck am I supposed to pronounce it?
Booie is East Anglian. The US accent owes quite a bit to East Anglia.
If you have trouble pronouncing French place names don't expect your satnav to help you. Mine makes 'Rouen' completely unrecognisable as a word of any kind.
Satnav can be WEIRD everywhere! Last week it told my driver to 'Turn right onto the Aten Undred' and only my local knowledge recognised this as the A1000...
American satnavs name Colindeep Lane Co-LINE-deep Lane.
I am aware of certain satnavs that like to include the postcode when they read out the address or instructions, but haven't quite got the hang of splitting the letters and numbers up - "Turn left onto Trafalgar Road Sehten."
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!
I am aware of certain satnavs that like to include the postcode when they read out the address or instructions, but haven't quite got the hang of splitting the letters and numbers up - "Turn left onto Trafalgar Road Sehten."
This one!Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!
That one gets me too.
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!
This one!Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!
That one gets me too.
And, why do they pronounce 'mirror' as 'mere'?
This one!Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!
That one gets me too.
And, why do they pronounce 'mirror' as 'mere'?
Dear American friends, there is an 'L' in solder. Please use it!
There's an 'r' in 'solder' which I don't pronounce. I've not had any rhotacizing Americans complain about that to me.
I don't have the resources to check the etymology, but it appears there was an old French 'soudeur' along the line somewhere. Maybe the dialects of some of the US settlers still reflected that, and that was the one that stuck. Vive la différence!
I've also logged an issue that, although the company is from the US, we work in in the UK, and here schedule does not have a K in it.
Not a new one but I've heard it a few times recently and it's most irksome...
'Coup de grace' pronounced as 'coo de grah'.
Mind you I never did French at school so have no idea how French pronunciation works.
For entertainment, get a formal Frenchy and drop them in a room with a Quebecois. Get some popcorn and find a comfy seat.I used to have a Quebecois colleague whose French girlfriend would only speak to him (and only acknowledge what he was saying) in English as she thought his French was so bad.
Not a new one but I've heard it a few times recently and it's most irksome...'Cul de gras'? ;)
'Coup de grace' pronounced as 'coo de grah'.
Mrs Pcolbeck annoys me when she's navigating by doing that. She will make a stab at the French pronunciation of some town saying something like "take the exit of the roundabout in the direction of xxxxxxx" then get annoyed when I get it wrong as her pronunciation bears no resemblance to how the place is spelt. How the hell am I to know that's how it sounds?
Apart from that she is a fantastic navigator I must admit, has got us all over France with just a Michelin map for years before we had SatNav and even now she often comes up with a better route.
'Often', pronouncing the 'T', is becoming more common—"Spelling pronunciation" says the Oxford Guide dismissively.
I have only once heard 'soften' pronounced with the 'T'.
Diphthongs, people. Diphthongs.
In a similar vein: Gee-ography and Thee-atre
Diphthongs, people. Diphthongs.
Also: tyoomeric
Ignorant tyoods
In a similar vein: Gee-ography and Thee-atre
Diphthongs, people. Diphthongs.
Newsreader on BBC WS last weekend kept talking about the eye-ron fist.
Chemistry teacher used to deliberately talk about "eye-ron ions" to avoid confusion. Normally he was non-rhotic.
I was surprised when my Aberystwyth-dwelling daughter pronounced it "Shrew". She maintained that both pronunciations were correct because people used both "these days". "Aye, and lots of them are wrong" she didn't appreciate.
Shrewsbury is not a home for shrews.
It is a place for adding an ‘r’ to a show.
Has anyone been to or is from Keighley, W Yorks?
I used to know a chap from Whitchurch who pronounced it to rhyme with shrew.
I used to know a chap from Whitchurch who pronounced it to rhyme with shrew.
I think it's always been Whitchurch......
The problem comes when you use the correct pronunciation and people don't know what you're talking about.Erm yes...
Cited the destination announcements on the train.
Shrewsbury is not a home for shrews.
It is a place for adding an ‘r’ to a show.
When I explained this to barakta she didn't believe me. Cited the destination announcements on the train.
The problem comes when you use the correct pronunciation and people don't know what you're talking about.
Has anyone been to or is from Keighley, W Yorks?
AwreI pronounce it as "oar", more or less, as in rowing. I have been there, but I don't suppose I'll go back now the pub is defunct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awre)
I've not been there, but I have seen signposts pointing to it. How the blurry eck am I supposed to pronounce it?
Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.
Has anyone been to or is from Keighley, W Yorks?
Or with Leopolis? <where's that Roman emoji?> Call it Stickville!*Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.
Would that rhyme with Lemberg? ;)
If you wish to pronounce 'Poughill' correctly, you have first to enquire whether it's the one in Devon, or the one in Cornwall.
If you wish to pronounce 'Poughill' correctly, you have first to enquire whether it's the one in Devon, or the one in Cornwall.
Like Wymondham Leics and Wymondham, Norfolk or Gillingham, Kent or Dorset then...
"Cavalcade" pronounced success.If you wish to pronounce 'Poughill' correctly, you have first to enquire whether it's the one in Devon, or the one in Cornwall.
Like Wymondham Leics and Wymondham, Norfolk or Gillingham, Kent or Dorset then...
Though pronunciation is not obvious in either case.
...pronounced it like the small mammal...
Or with Leopolis? <where's that Roman emoji?> Call it Stickville!*Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.
Would that rhyme with Lemberg? ;)
*Kij = a stick in Polish. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the actual name. Mind you I'm not really sure what connection there might be between Lvov/Lviv/Lwów/Lemberg and lions.
When I was a kid, my dad used to routinely (and deliberately) mispronounce Penelope as "Penny-lope", and Persephone as "Percy-phone". Both were used regularly (family friend, name of pattern on better set of crockery), and my sister picked up on the incorrect pronunciation without realising it was wrong.
This led to considerable hilarity, not to mention embarassment on her part, when she first met her future sister-in-law, and introduced herself with "Hello Penny-lope, I'm Margaret".
Thanks! I think I did know, or had known, that it was named for the founder's son, but not about King Daniel of Galicia. Perhaps he used the stick in lion taming? :D :hand:Or with Leopolis? <where's that Roman emoji?> Call it Stickville!*Back when I was young enough to have a girlfriend, I had a girlfriend who lived in Shrewsbury. She and all her family, who had lived there since the early Pleistocene, pronounced it like the small mammal. Just to add to the confusion, we met in the capital of the Ukraine; which back then was generally known as Kiev, is now Kiyiv and which my wife would probably call Kijów.
Would that rhyme with Lemberg? ;)
bah! beat me to it.Quote*Kij = a stick in Polish. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the actual name. Mind you I'm not really sure what connection there might be between Lvov/Lviv/Lwów/Lemberg and lions.
Kyïv (Київ) is named after Kyj (Кий), one of the founders of the city.
The lion connection of L'viv is this: King Daniel of Galicia, the founder, named it in honour his son Lev - the Ukrainian for Leo.
Do the jography clan also talk about jology, jophysics or (always need three instances) jodes?
The 'o' sound is different in geophysics and geology*, so I see no reason why it can't be different again in geography. If you're taking the view that the pronunciation of geography should follow other geo- compounds, it would be more like 'gee-oh-GRAPHy' rather than 'gee-OGG-raphy'.
The 'o' sound is different in geophysics and geology*, so I see no reason why it can't be different again in geography. If you're taking the view that the pronunciation of geography should follow other geo- compounds, it would be more like 'gee-oh-GRAPHy' rather than 'gee-OGG-raphy'.
Also: a nomination for POTD for Kim.
*cue for classics pedant to say it isn't.
The 'o' sound is different in geophysics and geology*, so I see no reason why it can't be different again in geography. If you're taking the view that the pronunciation of geography should follow other geo- compounds, it would be more like 'gee-oh-GRAPHy' rather than 'gee-OGG-raphy'.
The sound isn't different, the emphasis is. That's no reason to totally elide the ee sound, though.
or Wipers...The Ypres Arms in Sittingbourne is usually Wipers.
or Wipers...In hte context of WWI, it can be 'Wipers'.
or Wipers...In hte context of WWI, it can be 'Wipers'.
Shallot pronounced SHALLet. US, natch.
There's a trailer that's getting repeated a lot on 6music at the moment in which Miranda Sawyer pronounces biopic as 'bi-opic' rather than 'bio-pic', with the emphasis on 'op'. Makes me shout at the radio every time.I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "bio-pic". But then it's not a word I encounter much.
Stuart Maconie picked up on it yesterday as well.
Shallot pronounced SHALLet. US, natch.
Growing up in the US (and left in my late 20s), I never hears anyone say 'SHALLet'. It may be regional, or perhaps just one person's ignorance.
There's a trailer that's getting repeated a lot on 6music at the moment in which Miranda Sawyer pronounces biopic as 'bi-opic' rather than 'bio-pic', with the emphasis on 'op'. Makes me shout at the radio every time.Phew. Not just me then.
Stuart Maconie picked up on it yesterday as well.
There's a trailer that's getting repeated a lot on 6music at the moment in which Miranda Sawyer pronounces biopic as 'bi-opic' rather than 'bio-pic', with the emphasis on 'op'. Makes me shout at the radio every time.I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "bio-pic". But then it's not a word I encounter much.
Stuart Maconie picked up on it yesterday as well.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "bio-pic". But then it's not a word I encounter much.
Son. It is pronounced 'samosa'. Not bloody 'samoza''.Wasn't he El Pres of Nicaragua? (Samoza, not your son, obvs.)
Someone brought brought up in Birmingham has no excuse.
I think we should put the emphasis on more middle syllables. They're forced to linger there, journeymen stressfully bookended by other more emphatically delivered syllables. I say give them life! Give them omph! This is my manifesto for the neglected syllables.Don't ever travel to Hungary or Finland...
French commentators leave out half of "Kwiatkowski" - something like "Katofski".
We used to have an underboss called Kwiatkowski: we called him Kiwi.
French commentators leave out half of "Kwiatkowski" - something like "Katofski".
We used to have an underboss called Kwiatkowski: we called him Kiwi.
That surname is three syllables - Kwiat-kow-ski - not, as British commentators tend to say Kwi-at-kow-ski. And pronounce the 'w' as 'v'.
New-car-sulI hope you won't mind if I stick with
Glars-go
I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"
(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P
Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims :facepalm:
New-car-sulI hope you won't mind if I stick with
Glars-go
I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"
(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P
Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims :facepalm:
Mrs P's pronunciation was approved on this year's visit :thumbsup:
New-car-sulI hope you won't mind if I stick with
Glars-go
I bet most southerners cringe when they pronounce Glastonbury. ;D
"Paris"
Instead of "Par-ee"
(At least while I'm in the UK)
:-P
Us trying to explain to our French hosts that we were going to Rheims :facepalm:
Mrs P's pronunciation was approved on this year's visit :thumbsup:
Are you certain she was't just clearing her throat in preparation for an attempt at Rheims?
Then there's Castroviejo, that the French commentators pronounce Castroviero because French, like English, doesn't have a voiceless velar fricative and usually substitutes an R instead.
I'm spending too long listening to Classic fm.
I wish Bach was not pronounced by some to rhyme with 'Lark'.
Hum. Someone from the Beeb's pronunciation unit once said in an interview that if newsreaders had pronounced Khrushchev properly nobody would have recognized it.
They aren't ALL guilty.I saw the billboard poster for them today, Bach to Bach, it might work in England, but in Scotland where its more common to pronounce a /x/ in when it should be a /k/...
Presenters' proficiency with foreign tongues is very variable.
Some are cringeworthy, others are rather good.
I remember the variability in commentary from muddly on that front, the story I read was that Ayrton asked him why he'd changed from saying it right to saying it wrong.Hum. Someone from the Beeb's pronunciation unit once said in an interview that if newsreaders had pronounced Khrushchev properly nobody would have recognized it.
Murray Walker offered the same excuse when picked up on his pronunciation of Ayrton Senna by the man himself - ie it's not that he didn't know the correct pronunciation, just that the viewing audience would have balked at it.
It's time to go Bach to basics.I think my campaign to dispose SSE adoptions of Scots words of the imposter z is doomed to failure, it took me ages to find the yough in character map.
It's time to go Bach to basics.I think my campaign to dispose SSE adoptions of Scots words of the imposter z is doomed to failure, it took me ages to find the yough in character map.
And I've still not found out how Shetland swapped a yough (Hjatland to Zetland*) for a sh.
*im on my phone there's no yough symbol at all...
Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk
Hm, seems Zetland was named Zetland in 1931 as the common corruption of yetland, (where I've substituted a y for a yough) but for the 1970s reorganisation everything else was Sh, but that's all I've found.It's time to go Bach to basics.I think my campaign to dispose SSE adoptions of Scots words of the imposter z is doomed to failure, it took me ages to find the yough in character map.
And I've still not found out how Shetland swapped a yough (Hjatland to Zetland*) for a sh.
*im on my phone there's no yough symbol at all...
Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk
Maybe it evolved via/like the Swedish 'sj'
It's time to go Bach to basics.
There was a BBC4 programme on the other day about Neanderthals. There were loads of academics and scientists in the programme and they all said "Neandertal" ie no "TH" sound and which how I've always heard it said, but the presenter kept on saying it as NeanderTHal!
The presenter is some kind ofNeanderAustralopithecus.
There was a BBC4 programme on the other day about Neanderthals. There were loads of academics and scientists in the programme and they all said "Neandertal" ie no "TH" sound and which how I've always heard it said, but the presenter kept on saying it as NeanderTHal!
Dunno; ask the Russians!
My mother was named Ruth by her German parents.
She's used the soft 'th' since she arrived here in 1956 when in GB but not when in FOREIGN climes.
Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?
Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.
I've tried pronouncing London the English way in Polish sentences. It's virtually impossible. Polish has fairly rigid stress patterns and initial stress just doesn't work, it unbalances the whole sentence. Saying "Varshava" in an English sentence is easy but as it's an important enough place to have a standardised English name, it's silly not to use that in English. But there is a mid-ground of names which are reasonably familiar to English ears but not so much as to have a standard English version, and often the Polish pronunciation is sufficiently different as to be a different word. Lodz/Łódż is a case in point. I remember one Polish friend used to compromise on "Worsoff" for Warsaw in English, which sounds like a Pole mangling an English name.Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?
Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.
I would have expected chor-aye-zo, but never mind.
I have a Scots-Polish chum who was born in France and first went to Poland in his mid-twenties. Before he went, Warsaw was Warsaw to both of us. After he came back I mentioned Warsaw and he bellowed "Varshava!" at me. But then, he's been a Tory all his life.
As for Sevilla, it seems the place is Seville but the kickball team is Sevilla (pronounced mostly as severe).
And then there's AC Milan, an Italian football club which for historical reasons uses the English name of the city. Do you use the English pronunciation of the English name, or the Italian "Meeelan" (as the locals do)?
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.
If you're trying to be totally authentic, there's the added problem of clubs with numbers in their names. And the initials. "eff see schalke oh four" or "eff tsay schalke zero vier"? Or something else? (The answer of course is not to talk about German football!)As for Sevilla, it seems the place is Seville but the kickball team is Sevilla (pronounced mostly as severe).And then there's AC Milan, an Italian football club which for historical reasons uses the English name of the city. Do you use the English pronunciation of the English name, or the Italian "Meeelan" (as the locals do)?
Football club names are an odd case. Napoli play in Naples. Fiorentina play in Florence. Slavia Prague play in Praha. Steaua Bucharest play in Bucuresti.
And Bayern Munich play in München, which is in Bavaria.
Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?
Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.
I would have expected chor-aye-zo, but never mind.
I have a Scots-Polish chum who was born in France and first went to Poland in his mid-twenties. Before he went, Warsaw was Warsaw to both of us. After he came back I mentioned Warsaw and he bellowed "Varshava!" at me. But then, he's been a Tory all his life.
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.
What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'
Is it only British people who amuse themselves by trying to pronounce foreign words authentically (which generally failing, unless they're posh, in which case they do it on purpose in the hope of making the rest of us seem foolish)?
Certainly, the French and Italians don't seem to bother. I think we should follow their lead. Chorizo in my house is chor-eez-o and it's fucking staying that way.
I would have expected chor-aye-zo, but never mind.
I have a Scots-Polish chum who was born in France and first went to Poland in his mid-twenties. Before he went, Warsaw was Warsaw to both of us. After he came back I mentioned Warsaw and he bellowed "Varshava!" at me. But then, he's been a Tory all his life.
It's not that the French just don't bother. They actually take great pride in completely distorting foreign names. London becomes "Londres", and Warsaw becomes "Varsovie".
I say it like this. But that’s how I learned it. To say it otherwise would be an affectation on my part.If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.
What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.
What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'
??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?
This pronunciation thing does seem to be a class signifier. Upper class uberposhos will deliberately mispronounce, middlers and aspirationals will bump for what they believe is authenticity and a make a big fuss of doing so and reminding others that they're doing it wrong. Those the at the bottom don't care, they're on their fifteenth pint of San Miguel in Ma-lager.
This pronunciation thing does seem to be a class signifier. Upper class uberposhos will deliberately mispronounce, middlers and aspirationals will bump for what they believe is authenticity and a make a big fuss of doing so and reminding others that they're doing it wrong. Those the at the bottom don't care, they're on their fifteenth pint of San Miguel in Ma-lager.
I don't think that's strictly true, given the amount of abuse that you can get for speaking too posh in certain contexts. Northerners will do it to anyone speaking RP, of course, but southerners will latch onto authentic pronunciation of foreign words as a poshness signifier (unless you can plead some sort of foreignness).
And then there's AC Milan, an Italian football club which for historical reasons uses the English name of the city. Do you use the English pronunciation of the English name, or the Italian "Meeelan" (as the locals do)?I didn't know that Milan was the actual name. I'd always wondered why Polish football commentators talked about Inter Mediolan, that being the Polish name of the city, but AC Milan, neither Polish nor Italian. (They pronounce Milan as if it were a Polish word – short i but more like a short "ee" than an English "i" – but then they would do, because they are even if it is not.)
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.
What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'
??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?
https://youtu.be/yNM8rN7vf2w
(closer to 'sh' than 'tch', I'd say)
Added to the fact I can't talk proper anyway and have a bit of a weird speech thing where I just can't pronounce some words as my brain insists on breaking them into linear phonetic units (for instance, Appalachian, episcopal, pheromone) so by the time I've sussed out the actual pronunciation they're all out of my mouth.Wasn't "Appalachian" the second album by Episcopal Pheromone? It was rubbish.
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.
What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'
??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?
https://youtu.be/yNM8rN7vf2w
(closer to 'sh' than 'tch', I'd say)
Something wrong with my ears.
Football club names are an odd case. Napoli play in Naples. Fiorentina play in Florence. Slavia Prague play in Praha. Steaua Bucharest play in Bucuresti.
And Bayern Munich play in München, which is in Bavaria.
It does sound more like an English ch than sh to me (both the youtube example and those on forvo). But it's definitely not quite either, which is probably part of the reason it's difficult for English speakers.Something wrong with my ears.
When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
It does sound more like an English ch than sh to me (both the youtube example and those on forvo). But it's definitely not quite either, which is probably part of the reason it's difficult for English speakers.Something wrong with my ears.
When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
My tame German says the team is Bayern München.Football club names are an odd case. Napoli play in Naples. Fiorentina play in Florence. Slavia Prague play in Praha. Steaua Bucharest play in Bucuresti.
And Bayern Munich play in München, which is in Bavaria.
Unless they are playing in Monaco (or Monaco di Baviera, to avoid confusion with any other Monaco (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-munich/munichs-italian-name-diverts-tourists-from-monaco-idUSL0972024920080409)).
I guess in English-speaking places the München is translated to Munich but it’s not in use here.
It does sound more like an English ch than sh to me (both the youtube example and those on forvo). But it's definitely not quite either, which is probably part of the reason it's difficult for English speakers.Something wrong with my ears.
When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
Yes, there's a difference, but even the IPA guide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Spanish) says the closest English sound is as in choose (not shoes), so it's not really cringeworthy. Pronouncing it as a proper soft sh- might be.
'koritzo'? I'm not sure I've heard that, but it's logical, given that Italian tends to be higher regarded (in food at least) than Spanish.It does sound more like an English ch than sh to me (both the youtube example and those on forvo). But it's definitely not quite either, which is probably part of the reason it's difficult for English speakers.Something wrong with my ears.
When you hear it being pronounced the way I mean, the difference is quite obvious.
Yes, there's a difference, but even the IPA guide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Spanish) says the closest English sound is as in choose (not shoes), so it's not really cringeworthy. Pronouncing it as a proper soft sh- might be.
It’s all very well for you to say it’s not cringeworthy but wait until you hear someone say it the way I’ve heard it said.
Which you obviously haven’t or you’d know what I meant.
Everyone in financial services pronounces "leverage" the USian way :facepalm:
Everyone in financial services pronounces "leverage" the USian way :facepalm:
Everyone in financial services pronounces "leverage" the USian way :facepalm:
I tend to regard that one as a useful warning. But then I was trying (without much success) to get "soddering" adopted for the unsatisfying lead-free version of the process.
'koritzo'? I'm not sure I've heard that, but it's logical, given that Italian tends to be higher regarded (in food at least) than Spanish.
'koritzo'? I'm not sure I've heard that, but it's logical, given that Italian tends to be higher regarded (in food at least) than Spanish.
Though just to fuck with my expectations, in Texas (or it might have been Colorado) some years back I asked for the buffet [pronounced buff-eh!] and the waiter looked back at me for a second and said don't you mean the buffet, sir? OK, more of a burrf-it. No, I replied brightly, I mean the buffet. Anyway, it was Texas (or Colorado), so we solved our pronunciation dispute through an exchange of medium-to-high calibre gunfire.Buffet the vampire slayer (with medium-to-high calibre gunfire)
I was reminded yesterday evening of one of the weird transatlantic things – Anthony Bourdain was eating 'turbo' which is, of course, turbot (which any fool knows rhymes with robot). The Americans also insist on the Frenchish pronunciation of Fillet o' Fish. Even in poorest southern backwater that can host a McDonalds, they'll fillet like a mignon. See also clique and niche which I pronounce properly (like an Englishman, and the correct way to pronounce chorizo is, of course, sausage).There might be solid historical reasons why USAnians are more receptive than Britannians to French pronunciation.
Though just to fuck with my expectations, in Texas (or it might have been Colorado) some years back I asked for the buffet [pronounced buff-eh!] and the waiter looked back at me for a second and said don't you mean the buffet, sir? OK, more of a burrf-it. No, I replied brightly, I mean the buffet. Anyway, it was Texas (or Colorado), so we solved our pronunciation dispute through an exchange of medium-to-high calibre gunfire.
Gravy in the US is a Different Beast. Eaten with biscuits.
I confess that I've never heard anyone British pronounce chorizo that way. It always comes out as a comedy (I use the word advisedly) Allo Allo accent. Once in Bingley our waitress did a rather splendid chor-IT-toh! which was delivered with such verve that I feared she was about to fight a bull or commence the flamenco mid-order. I can't really capture it though, because it was also in broad Yorkshirese. She didn't, unfortunately, start dancing and singing and the only bovine was plated.If we're saying words how they're written then Chorizo gets a bit weird up here
Come to think of it, I'd like to hear Italians Talk Cockney, the first of my podcasts in Making Foreigns Talk Proper series.
If we're speaking English then, as far I care, we should use the anglicized pronunciation rather than mangling foreign pronunciation with comedy lisps and the like. Quite often it just sounds affected.
What really grates is people affecting the Castilian lisp for chorizo but starting it with a hard English 'tch'
??? what should it be? Sh- or K- ?
https://youtu.be/yNM8rN7vf2w
(closer to 'sh' than 'tch', I'd say)
That is definitely a ch as in chore (IPA: tʃ), and definitely not sh (ʃ) as in shore.
Gravy in the US is a Different Beast. Eaten with biscuits.
That is definitely a ch as in chore (IPA: tʃ), and definitely not sh (ʃ) as in shore.
Yes, but there’s a difference between a soft ch and a hard ch. The Spanish ch is softer than the English ch - not sh as in shore, just a bit more towards that end of the spectrum.
Am I really the only one who can hear this?
Possibly a hang-over from my trumpet playing days.
There is a difference, a Spanish ch is lighter and slightly more aspirated.
Gravy in the US is a Different Beast. Eaten with biscuits.
Biscuits in the US is a Different Beast. Scones. Eaten with wallpaper paste. For breakfast. :sick:
Furry boots he from?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VYSgMk6A6g
:)
I was out on site yesterday with a builder who repeatedly said "chimberley" (chimney, btw) and I don't think it was ironic..
In Pembroke City when I was young
I lived by the Castle Keep
Sixpence a week was my wages
For working for the chimbley-sweep.
Six cold pennies he
gave me Not a farthing more or less
And all the fare I could afford
Was parsnip gin and watercress.
I did not need a knife and fork
Or a bib up to my chin
To dine on a dish of watercress
And a jug of parsnip gin.
Did you ever hear a growing boy
To live so cruel cheap
On grub that has no flesh and bones
And liquor that makes you weep?
Sweep sweep chimbley sweep,
I wept through Pembroke City
Poor and barefoot in the snow
Till a kind young woman took pity.
Poor little chimbley sweep she said
Black as the ace of spades
O nobody's swept my chimbley
Since my husband went his ways
Come and sweep my chimbley
Come and sweep my chimbley
She sighed to me with a blush
Come and sweep my chimbley
Come and sweep my chimbley
Bring along your chimbley brush!
'archiepel-'AARgo
Wow. You live for nearly half a century and then hear a familiar word said in a totally new way.
Wow.
Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".Was the next piece in D hash major?
I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
Unlikely. That would be 9 'hashes' for 7 notes.Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".Was the next piece in D hash major?
I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".Mitchell and Webb. F hashtag minor.
I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
Mrs Pcolbeck once had a new teacher in the class she is TA for that was straight out of college and was from the Home Counties.I once read a story of a teacher in similar circumstances whose class informed her that the opposite of "appear" was "down there"...
He was trying to teach the kids spelling and pronunciation of new words by matching them with other words that rhymed.
The thing was that almost every pair of words he came up with may have rhymed in Surrey but in North Yorkshire they certainly didn't. Mrs Pcolbeck was crying laughing.
anyway, I could play all the notes flat).If you play all the notes flat, you're making a hash of them.
One of those things about growing up a bit pikey in the part of the UK that speaks a dialect that only resembles English to someone who's had an ear candling mishap is that you spend a life being corrected on pronunciation and other little details. Don't you mean?, they'll say, pedantically. As a child, I learned most everything from books so pronunciation often had to be guessed at using the peculiarly tuned phonetics of the region. It wasn't like I could ask my mum how to pronounce 'Achilles' or 'diplodocus' or somesuch and it was before the time you could hit a button and have the computer tell you. Or 'chorizo,' though that had yet to become a menu item, the most exotic thing in the early 1980's East Midlands still came in a box labelled Vesta (not that I was allowed, as it would 'make the house smell', presumably of something other than cigarette smoke and perpetual overcooking, the madeleines of my childhood).Vesta is still available in pretty much the same options as the 80s. As ready meals, by modern standards, they aren’t very ready.
People still do it today, especially with foreign words (and I think often they're making them up, or adding that signature English theatrical flourish). Generally, I smile tolerantly, wait till they turn their backs and murder them. OK, I wouldn't have have done the 'E B minor' – though all I remember from music lessons at my school was the xylophone didn't have a full complement of keys and the C was quite an important omission – but mostly because I used to attempt to play the guitar (I suspect less down to a deep, abiding love for music, but more because my misguided brain thought a series of badly played chords would somehow feature as an aphrodisiac for female company, but anyway, I could play all the notes flat).
Mary Anne Hobbs frequently has me shouting at the radio for her mangling of words, but she hit new heights last week when reading the title of a piece as "in E B minor".Mitchell and Webb. F hashtag minor.
I like Mary Anne Hobbs. She plays a good selection of music, and she has a good voice for radio. But she's just not very bright.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p01mv2zh (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p01mv2zh)
(Interestingly (FSVO interstingly...) typing "F hastag minor" into google returned answers for F sharp)
Just noticed that the US pronunciation of "futile" sounds almost like "feudal".
Just noticed that the US pronunciation of "futile" sounds almost like "feudal".
Exceptions to this are the person at the landlord and the Cheery Chippy who both call them "intermittent strips." A sort of part time sealant presumably.
Inflammable is not the opposite of flammable...Prompted me to check Merriam-Webster. I'm not sure how representative it is of the President's English, but they list inflame and inflammatory but not "flammatory". Although they do, logically, have flammation. They also say:
In the early 20th century, firefighters worried that people might think inflammable meant "not able to catch fire," so they adopted flammable and nonflammable as official safety labels and encouraged their use to prevent confusion. In general use, flammable is now the preferred term for describing things that can catch fire, but inflammable is still occasionally used with that meaning as well.Firefighters, bold in action but worried about words.
Odd word that. I would have thought intumescent was the opposite of tumescent.
Hmmm, so “tumescent” has meant “swelling” for centuries. In the 1950s someone comes up with “intumescent” meaning swelling caused by heat or fire. If I was making up a new word I would have gone for “pyrotumescent” or “thermotumescent”, maybe with a hyphen.Odd word that. I would have thought intumescent was the opposite of tumescent.
It's a different in-, as in information, which isn't the opposite of formation.
It's the in- that means in!Odd word that. I would have thought intumescent was the opposite of tumescent.
It's a different in-, as in information, which isn't the opposite of formation.
Intumescence doesn't have to be caused by heat, it's just come to be used that way. There's something about fire that leads to an urge to add an in- to the front of words. You have intumescent paint but a tumescent penis. Hopefully not at the same time, it'll get in the way.As I said. Odd word. Tumescent, the adjective, means swollen. Intumescence the noun derived from it, meaning “a swelling” used in medicine. The very rare adjective “intumescent” meant “marked by swellings” but I cannot find a real example of it being used. Since the 1950s intumescent has been used an adjective applied to paint the swells under heat or fire. If you look up “intumescent” in the dictionary that is what it says as the main meaning.
Weirdly, no one uses tumescent paint and intumescent penises are rarely sighted.
Inflammable is not the opposite of flammable...Prompted me to check Merriam-Webster. I'm not sure how representative it is of the President's English, but they list inflame and inflammatory but not "flammatory". Although they do, logically, have flammation. They also say:QuoteIn the early 20th century, firefighters worried that people might think inflammable meant "not able to catch fire," so they adopted flammable and nonflammable as official safety labels and encouraged their use to prevent confusion. In general use, flammable is now the preferred term for describing things that can catch fire, but inflammable is still occasionally used with that meaning as well.Firefighters, bold in action but worried about words.
...
A swollen penis and a penis marked by swellings are quite different things.
I'm not sure that this is the best thread for this, but anyway: my husband made a cake and informed me that he had used up the last of the "dissected" coconut to do so.Known as desecrated coconut here.
I am referring to the adjective “intumescent”. Those are a fine couple of examples of the noun “intumescence” which means swelling. My (old) paper dictionary has “intumescence” and “tumescent” but does not have “intumescent”. Looking on line I see the adjective intumescent means swollen by heat or fire (since 1953) or before that “marked by intumescences”. I was saying that I could find no real world examples of the word “intumescent” other than referring to paint. It is the specific word “intumescent” I cant find in action using its original meaning and as fine as your examples of the noun are, they have not changed that....
A swollen penis and a penis marked by swellings are quite different things.
Well, yes, that's what she said...
Intumescence doesn't just mean marked by swellings though (they'd probably be intumescences). Older medical texts refer to the 'intumescence of pregnancy' which is basically the bulge. Seems popular (along with womb and uterus in older copies of the Lancet, probably because they've digitized their back archive).
A couple of examples:
The intumescence of the uterus continued about the same and Jules Verne: Here, an intumescence which was to become a mountain, there, an abyss which was to be filled with an ocean or a sea.
Probably on Usanus.Yes, almost certainly.
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?
Is this the US pronunciation that always makes it sound like they're making fun of Mexicans with a hilarious comedy accent?
I've been to Chile and they really don't pronounce it Chee-lay.
Chilly-challying.How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?
Is this the US pronunciation that always makes it sound like they're making fun of Mexicans with a hilarious comedy accent?
I've been to Chile and they really don't pronounce it Chee-lay.
This was a BBC news reader and a the BBC's South American Correspondent, though the latter slipped up mid-report and switched to “Chilly” for a couple of sentences before reverting.
How long has that long thin country on the left hand side of South America been pronounced “Chee-lay”?
Is this the US pronunciation that always makes it sound like they're making fun of Mexicans with a hilarious comedy accent?
I've been to Chile and they really don't pronounce it Chee-lay.
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?'otel also.
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?'otel also.
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?
Of course, to be proper, I suggest we all go back to the time before the great vowel shift (not to be confused with the great bowel shift).In Germany I live quite close to the Benrather Linie which divided a massive consonant shift aeons ago. My bit of Niederrhein the locals say “wat ist dat” and the people just a bit further south say the normal German ‘was ist das’. I find it really interesting to hear the Niederrheiners talking as it’s more like English when you hear it, even though it’s fully understandable German.
They do, in return, correct our foolhardy pronunciation of Filet-o-Fish.
I'm fairly confident the French don't have a place called "Or-leens"
They do, in return, correct our foolhardy pronunciation of Filet-o-Fish.
To which the reply is, "What's that place called where they have the mardi gras?"
I'm fairly confident the French don't have a place called "Or-leens"
With some irony, I think one of the proposed theories for the great vowal shift is 'middle class hypercorrection.'
No more so than Cocteau's ballon de foutre.
No more so than Cocteau's ballon de foutre.
An arresting image, but not one I've come across before. Where is that from?
With some irony, I think one of the proposed theories for the great vowal shift is 'middle class hypercorrection.'
I'm sure hypercorrection, middle class or otherwise, is the reason behind a lot of manglings of dirty foreign words - the aforementioned "massoose" being a prime example from the US.
Here in the UK, I often hear "coop de grah" for coup de grace, which will mean something very different to French ears. The idea of delivering a coupe de gras to finish someone off is quite amusing.
Herbs pronounced urbs "because it's French". Why pronounce the S, then, knothead?
Just checked the etymology. Apparently it's Middle English from Old French, and we only started pronouncing the H in the mid-19th century.
I've long since got over my problems with Americanised pronunciation of French words, bearing in mind how badly we treat them ourselves. But I don't think I'll ever make peace with "massoose".
I do believe she's taking the piss.
This one from twitter...
https://twitter.com/jackremmington/status/1336291652441427970
How do you get to Meekro Wahvé?
I...
wtf.
J
I do believe she's taking the piss.
This one from twitter...
https://twitter.com/jackremmington/status/1336291652441427970
How do you get to Meekro Wahvé?
I...
wtf.
J
Someone on C4 News just pronounced chasm with the ch as in cheddar.
Someone on C4 News just pronounced chasm with the ch as in cheddar.
I remember doing that as a kid, as is the way when you learn words by reading. You'd think they'd have noticed before they got to do anything newsworthy...
Someone on C4 News just pronounced chasm with the ch as in cheddar.
I remember doing that as a kid, as is the way when you learn words by reading. You'd think they'd have noticed before they got to do anything newsworthy...
It was a person running a campaign to get pupils back to school ASAP. Maybe that's why...
Might of, could of, etc., as a pronunciation of **'ve. Leading of course to the written version. You wouldn't say or write 'I of done that' so it isn't 'I could of done that'.
Listening to a presentation at the moment by a French lady. On every other slide there is the word 'focus' which she delivers so it sounds like a bit like 'fuck you.'
Learning words from books is great, as is learning words from speech, but in the case of a word like chasm, it seems odd that you'd reach the stage where you were talking on the news (or whatever it was) without ever having pronounced the word in public or heard others use it aloud.
I'm not sure I understand that, except in the case of words two distinct meanings.
Most people just have a go at a pronunciation and make an effort to correct themselves if the named person says it differently.I think that's all you can do really and all you can expect on first meeting. Obviously if you know in advance you're going to be meeting someone with a particular name, you can do some research, which might, again, be asking them in an email or similar.
By deaf standards I pronounce words pretty well, cos I hear pretty well, but I can reliably tell you if a signer is deaf or hearing partly by their lip pattern cos it often matches a deaf person's guess on how a word is shaped and not how it is shaped when pronounced 'correctly'. An example is "know" many deaf people pronounce it as 'k'now' or they may be aware the k is silent, but pronounce it 'now' rather than like 'no'.I actually know someone whose surname begins Kn and somewhat counterintuitively, both letters are pronounced separately. I think it might be of Scandinavian origin. Most of his relatives live in Kentucky – it would be interesting to know if they pronounce it the same way he does.
I saw an interview on Auntie with someone named Jamie, pronounced 'jammy' and wondered how many might call her jaymee...I'd imagine almost everyone who doesn't already know her. I think if it were me, I might be tempted to change the spelling of my name.
By deaf standards I pronounce words pretty well, cos I hear pretty well, but I can reliably tell you if a signer is deaf or hearing partly by their lip pattern cos it often matches a deaf person's guess on how a word is shaped and not how it is shaped when pronounced 'correctly'. An example is "know" many deaf people pronounce it as 'k'now' or they may be aware the k is silent, but pronounce it 'now' rather than like 'no'.I actually know someone whose surname begins Kn and somewhat counterintuitively, both letters are pronounced separately. I think it might be of Scandinavian origin. Most of his relatives live in Kentucky – it would be interesting to know if they pronounce it the same way he does.
(Wouldn’t say it made me cringe but we don’t have a ‘pronunciation that surprises you’ thread)Just as with the grammar thread, at least half isn't really cringe.
The region was organized as the Territory of Arkansaw on July 4, 1819, but the territory was admitted to the United States as the state of Arkansas on June 15, 1836. The name was historically pronounced /ˈɑːrkənsɔː/, /ɑːrˈkænzəs/, and several other variants. The residents of Arkansas have called themselves either "Arkansans" or "Arkansawyers". In 1881, the Arkansas General Assembly passed the following concurrent resolution, now Arkansas Code 1 April 105:[13]
Whereas, confusion of practice has arisen in the pronunciation of the name of our state and it is deemed important that the true pronunciation should be determined for use in oral official proceedings.
And, whereas, the matter has been thoroughly investigated by the State Historical Society and the Eclectic Society of Little Rock, which have agreed upon the correct pronunciation as derived from history, and the early usage of the American immigrants.
Be it therefore resolved by both houses of the General Assembly, that the only true pronunciation of the name of the state, in the opinion of this body, is that received by the French from the native Indians and committed to writing in the French word representing the sound. It should be pronounced in three (3) syllables, with the final "s" silent, the "a" in each syllable with the Italian sound, and the accent on the first and last syllables. The pronunciation with the accent on the second syllable with the sound of "a" in "man" and the sounding of the terminal "s" is discouraged by Arkansans.
Despite this, the state's name is still frequently mispronounced, especially by non-Americans; in fact, it is spelled in Cyrillic with the ar-KAN-zəs pronunciation.
Citizens of the state of Kansas often pronounce the Arkansas River as /ɑːrˈkænzəs/, in a manner similar to the common pronunciation of the name of their state.
I’m subscribed to a few maths and science YouTube channels and also a few wood working channels. A lot of these are American in origin. I also saw a bit of footage from the Elizabeth Taylor bio last night, in particular her making a statement to congress about AIDS (for wh8ch I believe she set up her own foundation for which she campaigned extensively)
When will our colonial cousins recognise that it’s a quarter, or one quarter. It most definitely is not a fourth or one fourth.
It's tertiles all the way down.That's pretty good actually. Or maybe I just find bad jokes funny.
Boom boom.
I hate to say it, and I know it's partly in jest, but the entire 'Americans say something differently' thing grates because of course they do.Quote
Yebbut hearing a Peaky Fucking Bloinder saying clurk and skedule does grate when you realize they're doing it as a concession to the American ear.
I hate to say it, and I know it's partly in jest, but the entire 'Americans say something differently' thing grates because of course they do.Quote
Yebbut hearing a Peaky Fucking Bloinder saying clurk and skedule does grate when you realize they're doing it as a concession to the American ear.
Could it be an Oirish pronunciation? I don’t know about clerk, but I say skedule. Both my parents were Irish. Could it be that? I don’t watch PBs, but I believe some of the characters are supposed to be Irish or of Irish decent.
I hate to say it, and I know it's partly in jest, but the entire 'Americans say something differently' thing grates because of course they do.
Yebbut hearing a Peaky Fucking Bloinder saying clurk and skedule does grate when you realize they're doing it as a concession to the American ear.
Could it be an Oirish pronunciation? I don’t know about clerk, but I say skedule. Both my parents were Irish. Could it be that? I don’t watch PBs, but I believe some of the characters are supposed to be Irish or of Irish decent.
If I remember, I’ll ask mammy when I next speak to her.I hate to say it, and I know it's partly in jest, but the entire 'Americans say something differently' thing grates because of course they do.
Yebbut hearing a Peaky Fucking Bloinder saying clurk and skedule does grate when you realize they're doing it as a concession to the American ear.
Could it be an Oirish pronunciation? I don’t know about clerk, but I say skedule. Both my parents were Irish. Could it be that? I don’t watch PBs, but I believe some of the characters are supposed to be Irish or of Irish decent.
Not any Irish pronunciation I ever heard in N.I. My dad in the 50s mentioned remarking on the sh/sk different to an American colleague, who replied that they had a different sheme of speaking in the shool he went to.
Hey, USAnians: there's no such place as Glass-cow.Southerners pronouncing the city as Glarrs-go.
Not pronunciation this time but dialect or vocabulary. A child, maybe seven or eight years old, on a train, asked "Do trains have gas stations?" The striking thing about this Americanism was that the child and all three of her adults (who seemed to be mother, aunt and grandmother) had very British accents.
Hey, USAnians: there's no such place as Glass-cow.Southerners pronouncing the city as Glarrs-go.
I can imagine southerners having difficulty with Glastonbury. :-DHey, USAnians: there's no such place as Glass-cow.Southerners pronouncing the city as Glarrs-go.
Oh yes, that too.
And of course the girl's father, who wasn't present, might be American.
Train station used to grate on me too but no longer does. You go to a bus station to get a bus, so you go to a train station to get a train. I have noticed my son occasionally using "gotten", which I put down to movies or YouTube. But language changes and you can also find "gotten" in older British usage (though it might have been in slightly different contexts).
I don't really get the criticism of placename pronunciation – it's not like we pronounce Paris the same way as the French is it?No one is criticising. ::-)
"Gotten" is definitely a recent USA import via the internet.
"Gotten" is definitely a recent USA import via the internet.
Put an ill- or a for- in front of it and it's still UK English.
Cant remember who it was now but they were English. A documentary on ancient Egypt and they kept saying "oboe-lisk". I'd take either "ob-o-lisk" or "ob-a-lisk" but how they managed to get a woodwind musical instrument into their pronunciation beats me and grated horribly.
FWIW I learnt to drive in Germany, where gas is the colloquial term for petrol & diesel
I guess she's going with the flow.Lateral thinking there Mr L.
TV's Lizzie Greenwood-Hughes has just referred to the “Omnicron” variant of Coronalurgi. Nasty cough she’s got too.
I know I should cut TV's Lyse Doucet some slack given that she hails from rural Neptune [“New Brunswick” – Ed.] but her not-infrequent referring to the Afghan capital as “Cobble” is starting to grate.
Someone on C4 News reporting from Furryboottoon saying the city is famous for 'oil and granight'.
Thingy, umm, not James Naughtie, on the Toady programme, probably Justin Webb pronounced the popular contraction for a biographical film as Bi-opic.
No Christmas card for you Justin.
Thingy, umm, not James Naughtie, on the Toady programme, probably Justin Webb pronounced the popular contraction for a biographical film as Bi-opic.
No Christmas card for you Justin.
Thingy, umm, not James Naughtie, on the Toady programme, probably Justin Webb pronounced the popular contraction for a biographical film as Bi-opic.
No Christmas card for you Justin.
See also people who pronounce biopic, bi-opic.
Kill them. AND their families. With fire. Oh yes.
The only thing worse is the cover blurb on my copy of "Espedair Street", which calls said book a "biopic".
To rhyme with “myopic”?
As in
There once was a third-rate biopic
Whose viewers were somewhat myopic.
These short-sighted dolts,
Unaware of its faults,
Actually thought the film was rather good.
S'dentry. I always say said-en-tarry.I’d like to know the answer because an ex laughed like a drain at me when I pronounced it sedENtary and I took her word for it. Sort of relieved to find I’m not alone (though we may both be wrong).
Am I wrong or is this man an idiot?
S'dentry. I always say said-en-tarry.I’d like to know the answer because an ex laughed like a drain at me when I pronounced it sedENtary and I took her word for it. Sort of relieved to find I’m not alone (though we may both be wrong).
Am I wrong or is this man an idiot?
Similarly, sed-ent-tree.Snap.
S'dentry. I always say said-en-tarry.I’d like to know the answer because an ex laughed like a drain at me when I pronounced it sedENtary and I took her word for it. Sort of relieved to find I’m not alone (though we may both be wrong).
Am I wrong or is this man an idiot?
No idea. I've always pronounced it "sed N tree"
S'dentry. I always say said-en-tarry.I’d like to know the answer because an ex laughed like a drain at me when I pronounced it sedENtary and I took her word for it. Sort of relieved to find I’m not alone (though we may both be wrong).
Am I wrong or is this man an idiot?
No idea. I've always pronounced it "sed N tree"
I pronounce it like that, but with the emphasis on the first syllable.
After many years together Mrs P has just surprised me with her pronunciation of mnemonic.
Also, if you are a bloke, when talking to another bloke, lower your register a little so your voice is a bit deeper, and the other man will be forced to counter you, and in the space of a brief conversation, you'll end sounding like it's a Barry White face-off.
My chap and his company make devices for cabinet condition monitoring, which they say in English. Except they say mon-it-or-ing. I have told him it is mon-it-tring but as they all say it wrong there’s no point in changing.
His English and that of his colleagues is really good, but they use this word loads.
My chap and his company make devices for cabinet condition monitoring, which they say in English. Except they say mon-it-or-ing. I have told him it is mon-it-tring but as they all say it wrong there’s no point in changing.Are they selling it to English speakers? If not, I really doubt anyone apart from you even notices. In fact mon-it-or-ing is probably more easily understood than a more "English" pronunciation. European Standard English!
His English and that of his colleagues is really good, but they use this word loads.
I say SED en TE rry...
Enunciation lesson No. 354:
LM: Jim's house, is it near the police station?
MA: Yeah, yeah. There is a play station behind there, but me, I’m not a football fan. I’m an elderly person. I don’t – I’m not a fan of it.
LM: No, not –
MA: But he used to play football. Even we have our team in ***. I think he’s a team leader for that, but I’m not participating, because I am an elderly person.
LM: Matt, Matt, not a play station. A police – a police station.
MA: Huh?
LM: A police station. I have written it in the chat.
MA: Hello?
LM: Hello Matt, can you hear me?
MA: Yes. Yes. You said police station?
LM: Police, yeah. Police station.
When talking to someone whose first language is not English, it can be helpful to remember that "police" has at least two syllables, not one, and your correspondent might think it even has three.
Being a bit of a tool junkie, I like to watch YouTube videos of fancy tools and tool showdowns. I know, I knw, there’s a thread for that, but the reason I’m here is that a few of the American video boys pronounce Knippex as K-nippex and it’s driving me crazy. I accept that given that Knippex is a German brand, the K may indeed not be silent, but that’s not going to stop it treating on my nerves every time someone says it.It’s not silent in German but the kn is rolled together quickly. A more common similar word in German is Kneipe (local bar) and there is no pause between the k and n, they are said together.
Mubira must be Newcastle's latest midfield signing?
That particular consonant cluster doesn't seem to come easily to English speakers.
Like this?Mubira must be Newcastle's latest midfield signing?
;D He'll have to get used to being pronounced "Rubbish!" then, like the rest. I think Newcastle will finish 17th, having got all the points they are going to get. Their "remarkable" improvement since changing their name to Newcastle Arabia doesn't disguise that (I think) they have only beaten teams below them this season (and not all of them) except for Wolves and Leicester, who aren't exactly scalps. I think they will go down next time, after which the Saudi owners will buy the whole of the Championship and rename it Super-Premier, or something.
That particular consonant cluster doesn't seem to come easily to English speakers.
I knever had any trouble with it.
Similarly the Mb and Nd in Central African languages - and don't even think about Xhosa!I worked with a guy from Zimbabwe called Mpendulo. Despite numerous attempts, my pronunciation was apparently never correct (sounded perfect to me)
That particular consonant cluster doesn't seem to come easily to English speakers.
I knever had any trouble with it.
I don't know how you actually say Ncuti Gatwa, the new Dr Who actor – I'd never heard of him before – but I guess that could be another example?
Is it still a cluster when it's separate words though? Don't we insert a micro-pause? The final k of knock is attached to the preceding o, and the n of knee is attached to the following ee.That particular consonant cluster doesn't seem to come easily to English speakers.
I knever had any trouble with it.
Surely most people can say 'knock-knee' without it sounding like 'knocker-knee', even if they live in Hackney...
Thanks! Now I'll have to find an excuse to talk about him.I don't know how you actually say Ncuti Gatwa, the new Dr Who actor – I'd never heard of him before – but I guess that could be another example?
I saw/heard a video with an African.
It's 'Shootee Gatwa'
Is it still a cluster when it's separate words though? Don't we insert a micro-pause? The final k of knock is attached to the preceding o, and the n of knee is attached to the following ee.That particular consonant cluster doesn't seem to come easily to English speakers.
I knever had any trouble with it.
Surely most people can say 'knock-knee' without it sounding like 'knocker-knee', even if they live in Hackney...
What is knipex
What is knipex
While I do not expect 21st century BBC announcers to sound like John Snagge...
Snagge: My name is Snagge, John Snagge.
FX: [Two coins land in a cup]
Snagge: Thank you Sir Ian. It was June, 19-quifty-qua that the lad, Wallace Greenslade, first came to the BBC seeking refuge from hard work.
FX: [Typewriter]
Greenslade: Good morning, Miss, I'm Mr. W. Greenslade.
Receptionist (Female - Sellers): Oh, yes, you've come for the vacant post of announcer.
Greenslade: Yes, I have.
Receptionist: Do take a seat with the other applicants.
Greenslade: Thank you. I sat down next to a man wearing a brass deerstalker, white cricket boots, and a shredded cardboard wig.
Eccles: Ha-llo!
Greenslade: Good morning.
Eccles: Winds light to variable.
Greenslade: Pardon?
Eccles: I said, "Winds light to variable."
Greenslade: Oh, really.
Eccles: Yeah. Winds light to variable. I'm practising, you know.
Greenslade: Don't tell me you're applying for the post of announcer?
Eccles: Oh, yeah! And I'll get it too, you'll see! I'm wearing a Cambridge tie!
Greenslade: You? You were at Cambridge?
Eccles: Yeah!
Greenslade: What were you doing there?
Eccles: Buying a tie.
Is it still a cluster when it's separate words though? Don't we insert a micro-pause? The final k of knock is attached to the preceding o, and the n of knee is attached to the following ee.That particular consonant cluster doesn't seem to come easily to English speakers.
I knever had any trouble with it.
Surely most people can say 'knock-knee' without it sounding like 'knocker-knee', even if they live in Hackney...
Knipex is pronounced sort of like kn'ipex. The k isn't silent and is like the first k in kick. Its like if you pronounced the k in "knight"
Is it still a cluster when it's separate words though? Don't we insert a micro-pause? The final k of knock is attached to the preceding o, and the n of knee is attached to the following ee.That particular consonant cluster doesn't seem to come easily to English speakers.
I knever had any trouble with it.
Surely most people can say 'knock-knee' without it sounding like 'knocker-knee', even if they live in Hackney...
Knipex is pronounced sort of like kn'ipex. The k isn't silent and is like the first k in kick. Its like if you pronounced the k in "knight"
And in Wales we have a mountain named after an English knight, im which all letters are pronounced: Cnicht.
Basil pronounced baysil in the American fashion. Goes with herb pronounced urb.
Basil pronounced baysil in the American fashion. Goes with herb pronounced urb.
Happy enough with the British English non-pronunciation of the r though? Or not? Do you go full "herrr-b"? Or do you concede that spelling merely attempts (and fails) to reflect pronunciation, and say the word in the way that people in your part of the world do?
Basil pronounced baysil in the American fashion. Goes with herb pronounced urb.
And how about the name of the first letter of the word in question? Have you pinned your colours to the mast of the point in history where the French hache (pronounced "ash") dropped its aitch to become aitch (like the formerly formal 'otel), or are you loyal to the anglicised haitch? Or does haitch make your (h)ackles rise, because hache should be aitch?However we say it, we make a hash of it.
And how about the name of the first letter of the word in question? Have you pinned your colours to the mast of the point in history where the French hache (pronounced "ash") dropped its aitch to become aitch (like the formerly formal 'otel), or are you loyal to the anglicised haitch? Or does haitch make your (h)ackles rise, because hache should be aitch?However we say it, we make a hash of it.
And how about the name of the first letter of the word in question? Have you pinned your colours to the mast of the point in history where the French hache (pronounced "ash") dropped its aitch to become aitch (like the formerly formal 'otel), or are you loyal to the anglicised haitch? Or does haitch make your (h)ackles rise, because hache should be aitch?However we say it, we make a hash of it.
The name of the letter H doesn’t start with an H, not even a silent one.
Diane War Wick is convinced that is how her name should be spoke ;) but on the correct (and indeed the right side) of the pond we no (see what I did there?) it is Worrick ;D
Mis-pronunciation of Pronunciation.
Diane War Wick is convinced that is how her name should be spoke ;) but on the correct (and indeed the right side) of the pond we no (see what I did there?) it is Worrick ;D
Diane War Wick is convinced that is how her name should be spoke ;) but on the correct (and indeed the right side) of the pond we no (see what I did there?) it is Worrick ;D
I know a Canadian whose name is Warwick, pronounced Worrick....
I also know another Canadian who calls those fluffy buggers that live in trees "squrls". That makes me cringe!
Diane War Wick is convinced that is how her name should be spoke ;) but on the correct (and indeed the right side) of the pond we no (see what I did there?) it is Worrick ;D
<spelling pedant>
Isn't her first name Dionne?
Diane War Wick is convinced that is how her name should be spoke ;) but on the correct (and indeed the right side) of the pond we no (see what I did there?) it is Worrick ;D
<spelling pedant>
Isn't her first name Dionne?
That would be dee-on-knee, I suppose.
I'm always slightly nervous when I do this in case I have spent decades mispronouncing,I'm with you on those.
Detritus. I've always said dee-try-tuss, and this narrator is all over debt-tree-tuss. Given they also said 'acetic' when context would infer 'ascetic' I'm going to err in my own favour.
...de-TRY-tis...
I'm always slightly nervous when I do this in case I have spent decades mispronouncing,I'm with you on those.
Detritus. I've always said dee-try-tuss, and this narrator is all over debt-tree-tuss. Given they also said 'acetic' when context would infer 'ascetic' I'm going to err in my own favour.
...de-TRY-tis...
This.
I would be withMrs Pingu on this dee-try-tuss. Long e and long I, possibly coming from the Latin where they were traditionally long vowels. But I did spend 5 years in med school in Aberdeen and the next 10 in Scotland. The Scots of course claim to speak the best English, especially from the NorthI'm always slightly nervous when I do this in case I have spent decades mispronouncing,I'm with you on those.
Detritus. I've always said dee-try-tuss, and this narrator is all over debt-tree-tuss. Given they also said 'acetic' when context would infer 'ascetic' I'm going to err in my own favour....de-TRY-tis...
This.
OOooo maybe it's a Scots thing and I picked up my detritus in my Aberdeenshire sojourn...
Detritus is a word I learned by reading, and consequently have no idea how to say, but would probably go for debt-tri-tuss.
Detritus is pronounced "Sarge" or "Sir". Especially when he is carrying what he calls The Piecemaker.
Detritus is pronounced "Sarge" or "Sir". Especially when he is carrying what he calls The Piecemaker.
Detritus is pronounced "Sarge" or "Sir". Especially when he is carrying what he calls The Piecemaker.
That is wonderful pterry wordplay.
In Greek astronomy, Betelgeuse (pronounced “beetlejuice”, like the Tim Burton film character) marks one of the shoulders in the constellation Orion...
Absolutely, should be Yadalgeuse!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse#Nomenclature
A windy, wet, cold and miserable day.
"My daughter lives on the next street, she'll give us a cup of tea. And I've got lebushkins."
"What are they?"
A produces a packet of Lebkuchen. B salivates and henceforth adopts the term lebushkins. It has a softness to it that is missing from the original name.
Miss von Brandenburg brought me a packet of Lebushkins back from That Germany the other day but – mirabile dictu – I et 'em all inside three days.Would have been gone in two here. ;D
OK it's not specific words, but creaky voice (vocal fry) and rising intonation (upspeak).
Miss von Brandenburg brought me a packet of Lebushkins back from That Germany the other day but – mirabile dictu – I et 'em all inside three days.D hates Lebkuchen. I have to hide them away and eat them when he's not looking.
OK it's not specific words, but creaky voice (vocal fry) and rising intonation (upspeak).
Yes! Upspeak is irritating, but the amount of vocal fry I've encountered on video calls recently make me grumpy as it can be really hard to understand.
Sounds Russian. Didn't he write Tolstoy's War and Potatoes?The Russian version of Lebkuchen are called pryaniki. Though the German ones are nicer.
Sounds Russian. Didn't he write Tolstoy's War and Potatoes?The Russian version of Lebkuchen are called pryaniki. Though the German ones are nicer.
MarshmAllow. FFS.What's the preferred pronunciation ?
MarshmAllow. FFS.What's the preferred pronunciation ?
MarshmAllow. FFS.What's the preferred pronunciation ?
marsh mellow, obvs ;)
Oh yeah, sorry if my post was misleading, I was saying that 'marshmallow' is the preferred/right pronunciation, and that 'marshmellow' is an abomination. Does it originate with the DJ/music producer Marshmello, or is it older than that?MarshmAllow. FFS.What's the preferred pronunciation ?
Phew. I had you down as a wrong 'un for a while, until that clarification came through.Oh yeah, sorry if my post was misleading, I was saying that 'marshmallow' is the preferred/right pronunciation, and that 'marshmellow' is an abomination. Does it originate with the DJ/music producer Marshmello, or is it older than that?MarshmAllow. FFS.What's the preferred pronunciation ?
Oh yeah, sorry if my post was misleading, I was saying that 'marshmallow' is the preferred/right pronunciation, and that 'marshmellow' is an abomination. Does it originate with the DJ/music producer Marshmello, or is it older than that?MarshmAllow. FFS.What's the preferred pronunciation ?
Presenter talking about "Rackmaninoff", on Radio 3 21:45 8 Feb.
To be fair, a strength of R3 presenters is normally ability to pronounce foreign names.
Presenter talking about "Rackmaninoff", on Radio 3 21:45 8 Feb.
To be fair, a strength of R3 presenters is normally ability to pronounce foreign names.
Edit 2: I recall about half a century ago I was one of the "responsible" teachers on a day trip to Boulogne with the French department of the school I was teaching at at the time. I did teach some French, hence my presence, and whilst we were waiting for the ferry to arrive to take us back I bought myself an orange juice from a nearby stallholder. I asked for un jus d'orange s'il-vous-plait, and didn't pronounce the s. When the tradesmen returned with my drink, he said "un jus d'orange" and did pronounce the s. I asked him which was considered correct, to pronounce or not to pronounce the s and was provided with a Gallic shrug by way of an answer. I think it's a case of comme-ci-comme-ça.
I attended a course a few weeks ago where the tutor pronounced nitrous as "nit-rus" rather than "nai-trus". The session was about climate change, so they said it a lot. It was really distracting.I find barristers do this quite a lot. They read medical words and then pronounce them phonetically. Really grates
I attended a course a few weeks ago where the tutor pronounced nitrous as "nit-rus" rather than "nai-trus". The session was about climate change, so they said it a lot. It was really distracting.I find barristers do this quite a lot. They read medical words and then pronounce them phonetically. Really grates
See also: Clostridium difficile, which is generally regarded as bad news however you pronounce it.
See also: Clostridium difficile, which is generally regarded as bad news however you pronounce it.
Oh B Cereus.
See also: Clostridium difficile, which is generally regarded as bad news however you pronounce it.
We usually just called it C Diff...
Richard Osman, presenter of the very fine Richard Osman's House of Games, the word biopic is formed by running together "bio" as in biography and "pic" as in picture. Thus it is pronounced "bio pic" and not "bi opic". Apart from that, carry on the good work.