From 300Km to 600Km

[Dodge]

Morning Chaps/Chapesses,

I'm after a bit of advice, basically I'm about to do my first 300Km on Saturday (Peacock & Kites from Tongwynlais) and all being well with that event I was hoping to move up to a 400Km over summer.

Only problem seems to be a lack of 400Km events over summer (there seems to be more 600Km) and the ones I have seen unfortunately fall on weekends when I've already got commitments.

Would it be a bridge too far to step straight up from 300Km to 600Km in what is effectively my first year of Audax - previously all I've done is some road racing and sportive events up to around 200Km maximum?

Any advice and/or opinions would be gratefully received!

Ta very much, Dodge...

[MSeries]

There is no reason why you shouldn't try it. 600 in some ways is easier than 400 anyway as you can break 600 into two day rides with some sleep. This is harder to do on a 400. I don't sleep on 400s anyway but I know I can ride 400km without sleep so I do 600s as 400-sleep-200. You probably don't know what you will be like after 400kms. If it was me and I was having trouble I know I'd get too distressed and throw in the towel, you of course might be different. I did my first 600 in my first year of Audaxing, less than two months after my first 300 and with at least one 400 in between. I also did LEL that year to that was my motivation to do the 600, I wanted to see if I could do a SR and a long ride in one year in preparation for PBP.

[Andydauddwr]

I think to my mind, this would depend a lot on the particular 600 you have in mind.  If it's a reasonably well supported ride with proper sleep controls, then you could just consider a 600 as two day rides.

Day 1 would typically be 350-400ish km depending on how fast you are, with 200-250km on the 2nd day.

A through the night x-rated job would be a little trickier, as you would probably be experiencing sleep dep on a long ride for the 1st time...

AC

[Charlotte]

Any advice and/or opinions would be gratefully received!

Like the man says, JFDI 

If you can do a 300k, you can do a 400k.  600k is more pleasant (and arguably easier) than 400k.  Often because calendar 600k rides have sleeping facilities.  Many 400k rides don't.

Try a flatter one to start off with 

[Dodge]

Wow, fast responses!

JFDI - absolutely, well I am guilty of thinking about things too much at times, totally agree with you on that one!

MSeries, hearing that you did all that in your first year certainly makes me feel better, I thought perhaps it was a little bit too much to bite off.

I was thinking of doing "A Bridge too far" which goes from Cardiff up to Warrington and back, it says it is a very basic event but does having basic sleeping facilities at around 370Km.  Maybe this would not be the best event to enter as a first one?

Any suggestions as a good first event to enter???

[Chris S]

You might be able to find back to back rides over a weekend, that will be a good indicator of your "600 form". Find a couple of 200's running Saturday and Sunday, and enter/ride them.

This will also prove your ability to do long long hours in the saddle. If there's anything amiss with your setup, you'll know it half way through the Sunday!

Assuming all goes well, you should be able to do a 600 with confidence I'd say.

[MSeries]

MSeries, hearing that you did all that in your first year certainly makes me feel better, I thought perhaps it was a little bit too much to bite off.

You can read some more about it here http://www.mseries.plus.com/HowIBecameASR.pdf

[LEE]

I jumped from 300 to 600 last saturday.  It was tough but I wasn't in danger of not finishing.  My sore bits were a bit more sore and I ached for a couple of days longer after the ride.  Of course it depends on the terrain and weather.  I honestly think that the Midhurst 600 could have been almost enjoyable if the weather had been better.

Just make sure you are eating enough and save your self for that final 100km, it's a long 100km (and the final 20km is even longer than that I found)

[Dodge]

Sounds like a great idea Chris, I had not thought of doing that, but certainly sounds like a good way to approach it.

Fortunately there are back to back 200Km at the end of June running out of Tongwynlais (which is local to me) - so perhaps that is a perfect way of testing it out.

Thanks for the suggestion!  

[border-rider]

I was thinking of doing "A Bridge too far" which goes from Cardiff up to Warrington and back, it says it is a very basic event but does having basic sleeping facilities at around 370Km.  Maybe this would not be the best event to enter as a first one?

Maybe.  It is a very nice route, and not very hilly.  The controls are OK too - but last year there was some confusion about the sleeping arrangements and a lot of people ended up missing them.  Because it;s a shoestring event you might find fewer riders than one of the mainstream 600s, and it could get a bit lonely if you can't find someone at your pace.

[Martin]

I did my first 600 before the 400 having done very little since the 300; I had done a 400 the previous year. I generally find 400s harder psychologically because they are one long ride rather than 2 shorter rides (back to back with a Z stop but the second day is much easier and more euphoric) 400s are a lesson in staying up for 24 hrs unless you are lucky enough to get one with a Z stop. For some reason the Severn Across was in July first time I rode it; as were my first 3 400s; they seem to be getting earlier now (I suppose SR series are fast becoming PBP/LEL feeders rather than the Main Event for many riders and it won't be long before there's a major 1200+ event every year), in fact the last one in the South is the Denmead 400 (which I would say is OK as a first 400 too, quite rolling with some great scenery)

A Bridge too Far sounds like an OK 600 as a first.

Agree completely with LEE about the last 100km of a 600

[Dodge]

Thanks everyone for the responses, it has really inspired me and am going to go for it!

I think I'm going to go for the "A Bridge Too Far" event, purely because it is organised by a member of my team, Dave Lewis, and because it starts in my village!  Not perhaps the best ideas but hey ho, you have to start somewhere.

Looking forward to reading MSeries' account of gaining SR and hoping maybe I can do my own account of the same later this year!

Cheers y'all!

[Ian H]

Yet another anecdote: Way back sometime in the previous century I decided to return to cycling via audax. In my first season, having done no more than a couple of 100k events, I rode my first ever 300 (not a hilly one) followed a week later by the Bryan Chapman 600, then a 400, and eventually a 200. My training consisted of a few short distance time trials.

[Charlotte]

Bear in mind too that GruB and ChrisN managed a ver' respectable time on the BCM600 having never ridden more than a 300k.

[LEE]

.. and because it starts in my village!  Not perhaps the best ideas but hey ho, you have to start somewhere.

That sounds ideal.  I had to cycle past my house at 80km, 520km then my parent's house at 550km.  The drive home was awful (and now I think about it, quite dangerous).  Starting and finishing at home seems like a great iea.

[Dodge]

I had to cycle past my house at 80km, 520km then my parent's house at 550km.  The drive home was awful (and now I think about it, quite dangerous).

Wow, that must have been really, really tough mentally!

I think for sure you're right Lee, starting and finishing at home must be a good idea, I'm going to do it!  Enough thinking and talking has been done and at this rate I'll just end up talking so much that the ride will have come and gone!

Who dares wins! Hmmmnnn...

[Jasmine]

Sounds like a great idea Chris, I had not thought of doing that, but certainly sounds like a good way to approach it.

Fortunately there are back to back 200Km at the end of June running out of Tongwynlais (which is local to me) - so perhaps that is a perfect way of testing it out.

Thanks for the suggestion! 

Which back to back 200 km rides are you thinking of?  Is it the British 200 km and the Ride round Rhondda 200km?  If you can do these particular events back to back, you'll definitely have no problem with a 600 km.  Between them they have 5.75 AAA points!

[Dodge]

Aye Jasmine, those are the ones!  I know the roads these rides are on really, really well, so know that the rides are within my capability - well certainly on an individual basis, but whether or not I'll be OK on back to back days - well that remains to be seen.

But given I live about half a mile from the start - well no excuse really, got to give it a go!

I'm not a climber but I do handle them quite well, I just keep a close eye on my HRM and make sure I pace it correctly...not go gung ho!

Anyone else doing or planning to do these back-to-back events?

[Andydauddwr]

Anyone else doing or planning to do these back-to-back events?

Maybe - I have unfinished business with the British as we packed on it last year.

AC

[MattH]

Not the back to back, but A Bridge Too Far is on my "definite maybe" list; either that or South then North, depending upon how I feel after this weekend's foray into North Wales.

It is definitely much easier to do a ride that starts from home; no getting up early, faffing with cars or riding to the start. Being on familiar ground (at least the start and end) helps too - although from that point of view Denmead is now starting to feel like home!

[Spikey]

I too did the BCM (600) this year as 1st ride over 300K.
If you can finish the 300 with a bit of time in hand then 600 should be fine. One possible mistake I made was to ride the first 300 too fast (thinking about sleeping time). This resulted was a rather grim/ill night section. Still I had enough time in hand for a few hours rest (although I couldn't sleep much) and left the sleep stop with a couple of hours in hand for a more leisurely 2nd day. I didn't find the last 100 that bad, and the sun even came out for the last 30K making it positively pleasant/fun. I think starting from home was a psycological advanatage (even if it did add an extra 40K) in that towards the end I was approaching familiar teritory and roads.

PS. You'l never know whether you can unless you try.

PPS. Enjoy it!

[Chris N]

Not sure I get the '400 is harder than 600' thing, but I've not ridden a 400 yet and I don't mind riding/being up for 20+ hours at a time.  Dodge, get round the 300 and you'll probably be fine.

There might be an opportunity for a 400 this summer - I still need to ride one and I've got my eye on a DIY Brevet Cymru.

Bear in mind too that GruB and ChrisN managed a ver' respectable time on the BCM600 having never ridden more than a 300k.

yebbut GruB rides about 200 miles a week and I was desperately hanging on to his wheel, suffering like a dog and hating every second of the last 50k.

[Dodge]

Cheers Chris, and indeed to all those offering advice and plenty of encouragement.

We'll soon see whether 300Km is OK for me, really looking forward to it now!

Is that an offer regarding the 400Km this summer Chris?  I've never done a DIY before.  Mind I have heard good ramblings about the Brevet Cymru route, although I did think it was a 600Km - mind I've only been riding Audax since the end of March, so I'm likely to be confused.

[Chris N]

It's just a 'maybe I'll be riding it, possibly with company, at some point, maybe'!  I've a vague plan, but nothing organised as yet.  If it turns out I've got time and there's a couple/few of us, then I'll let you know.

[hellymedic]

There is no reason why you shouldn't try it. 600 in some ways is easier than 400 anyway as you can break 600 into two day rides with some sleep. This is harder to do on a 400. I don't sleep on 400s anyway but I know I can ride 400km without sleep so I do 600s as 400-sleep-200. You probably don't know what you will be like after 400kms. If it was me and I was having trouble I know I'd get too distressed and throw in the towel, you of course might be different. I did my first 600 in my first year of Audaxing, less than two months after my first 300 and with at least one 400 in between. I also did LEL that year to that was my motivation to do the 600, I wanted to see if I could do a SR and a long ride in one year in preparation for PBP.

I found myself saying almost exactly the same to Tim Hall of this parish when he paid a visit here today.

Go for a 600!