One for the IT bod(s): show live updates on the number of available beds at each control on the website so that riders can decide if it's worth moving on or staying where they are.
One for the IT bod(s): show live updates on the number of available beds at each control on the website so that riders can decide if it's worth moving on or staying where they are.
I think the IT job was already very complicated with the rider's check in/out, bag drops, and dorms check in/out. It would be unfair to ask for even more.
I also found that as the week went on I got increasingly purist in my audax philosophy. I didn't see my role as helping people who had GPS issues and couldn't navigate without it, who needed to charge their iPhone, or who wanted me to arrange a lift back to London and a clean set of clothes.
I also found that as the week went on I got increasingly purist in my audax philosophy. I didn't see my role as helping people who had GPS issues and couldn't navigate without it, who needed to charge their iPhone, or who wanted me to arrange a lift back to London and a clean set of clothes.
Controls seemed to be too dependent on hot canteen food. Most places I'd have been happier to stick with toast and cereal and biscuits and fruit, which some of the controls did*.Because a choice of bacon, beans, eggs, pancakes, porridge, greek yoghurt, mixed berries, grapefruit and another bowl of fruit in juice that I can't remember what it was from the servery or oranges/bananas/flapjacks self service just isn't enough options to keep topped up from 4am to 11am...
On a related note, Spicy food is as the same as no food for those of us whose stomachs become very sensitive on long rides.
(* There was an absurd situation overnight at Barnard Castle where there was a huge spread of hot food that no one wanted, and multiple people requesting cornflakes which had to be fetched from a far away back cupboard and were apparently only really meant for those with special dietary needs)
I was a DNF but would echo a lot of the comments above.
But - public tracking was amazing. This was probably revelatory for many thousands of people worldwide and appreciated by relatives galore. Even people at work were tracking me. SPOT trackers would take the pressure off Phil W and allow the same detail in planning. However the sheer load of servers required probably means that we would have crashed any server not actively managed like Phil did.
A token given to the rider for food on arrival at controls to allow one visit to the counter, so that there may be some food left for the later arrivals.
Also a fair number of people seemed to have not allowed their tracking data to be public in the privacy settings they chosse
Because a choice of bacon, beans, eggs, pancakes, porridge, greek yoghurt, mixed berries, grapefruit and another bowl of fruit in juice that I can't remember what it was from the servery or oranges/bananas/flapjacks self service just isn't enough options to keep topped up from 4am to 11am...
Oh, and perhaps controversially I'd also lose the public tracker.
My mistake... I've just had a look at my brevet card and it would have been 11:30 pm when I was there. I think you had a couple of spicy, dinnery things on but all I (and as I recall the person in front, and the person behind) wanted was something light before sleep, which cornflakes were perfect for.
(I realise now cornflake demand at 11:30 pm isn't something anyone should be expected to predict... it's been a very odd few days)
[...]some of the logistics around placement of scanning/food/drinks/etc. did create a few bottlenecks...Pocklington's drinks point is one that immediately springs to mind as one that seemed to invite crowds around it, whilst their food point (and island!) was brilliant in terms of getting people through.Some of the BC volunteers last time and this were discussing how, by the time a control closes, we have solved most of the problems, found out where everything is, worked out all the desire paths and signposting issues and fine-tuned all the systems - just in time to pack it all away :)
That was amazing - most of the volunteers have got the outline of the recipe - it's not coconut milk, it's block coconut, which is coconut fat, plus desiccated coconut, in a standard rice pudding (with maybe a bit of added extra butter in one of the earlier iterations)
I could kiss whoever thought to make rice pudding with coconut milk at Spalding on the way up.
Don't have an answer to this problem but think it needs to be discussed.We had a rider who wasn't woken at Spalding - I think he was given the additional time back. (The post-it not had fallen off the board).
I DNF'd, got to Louth early, and a bed at 2300, with a wake up call at 0230. However this did not happen and I was sleeping like a baby until just before 0600! Was then very late, no breakfast except for a bit of cake... At this stage I should have had four hours in hand but had none. I carried on up north and enjoyed it, and as my partner was volunteering I was determined not to pack before then
The issue is the oversleeping, the notice said maximum three hours and NO Mobile phones, which I was happy with. But with a lot of things on this thread it is a balance between individual responsibility and collective good. The volunteers forgot to wake me, happens, then should I have phone on, or at least vibrate, but if that is the case we need to make it clear. And do we enforce the three hour rule, which I would have suspected would have been done.
Individual v collective?
Vibrating alarms are surely a reasonable compromise? If a mobile phone inna sock is banned, then a vibrating watch ought to suffice. With the best will in the world, I don't think I'd trust a wakeup call to happen.
Agree with a lot of what I've read on this thread. My tuppence worth (and my brain is working on 2hrs sleep in 48hrs so bear with me!) and all the volunteers did an amazing job in my experience and nearly everything was perfect (apart from the catering arrangements at Louth north and south which was unacceptable IMO)...
- Don't use hosepipes for providing water, especially 50m long ones. Having water that tasted of hosepipe after Brampton until I could get to replace it was not pleasant.
- Shoes on/off just to check in/out was a real pain when you're tired and using overshoes, i.e. cover the floor to the desk or have the desk in a shoe accessible area.
- Have a qualifier event, e.g. a UK 400 or 600 in the year of the event. I saw some shocking rider behaviour and some very dangerous incidents. Some of the lack of preparedness was scary. I saw two riders seconds from potentially fatal incidents through their own lack of experience of riding UK roads.
- Jugs of milk. And then more jugs of milk. And cornflakes.
- More Cake. First cake I encountered was at Moffat AFAIK. Maybe it was me but there seemed to be a general lack of sweet stuff?
- The A701 to Edinburgh was horrendous. The surface was almost unrideable (e.g. through Broughton) for much of its length.
My tuppence worth (and my brain is working on 2hrs sleep in 48hrs so bear with me!) and all the volunteers did an amazing job in my experience and nearly everything was perfectThis, in spades.
- Have a qualifier event, e.g. a UK 400 or 600 in the year of the event. I saw some shocking rider behaviour and some very dangerous incidents. Some of the lack of preparedness was scary. I saw two riders seconds from potentially fatal incidents through their own lack of experience of riding UK roads.I'd agree with having a qualifying requirement - to prepare riders for some of the challenges involved and hopefully reducing DNF rate, by doubt very much it will do anything to reduce dangerous riding.
Jugs of milk. And then more jugs of milk. And cornflakes.Yes to milk - but I'd run a mile from any event where conflakes were the only choice at a control.
- More Cake. First cake I encountered was at Moffat AFAIK. Maybe it was me but there seemed to be a general lack of sweet stuff?Yes, I looked for sweet stuff (other than rice pudding) on a couple of occasions and failed to find any. Something other than cake (maybe along the lines of apple pie & custard) would be a bonus
- The A701 to Edinburgh was horrendous. The surface was almost unrideable (e.g. through Broughton) for much of its length.Agree - I had a conversation with a (succesful) French rider this morning who told me that cut backs meant their roads were now beginning to resemble those in some English counties and he accepted this was 'par for the course' but that he wouldn't be coming back because of the poor state of some roads in Scotland.
- The A701 to Edinburgh was horrendous. The surface was almost unrideable (e.g. through Broughton) for much of its length.Agree - I had a conversation with a (succesful) French rider this morning who told me that cut backs meant their roads were now beginning to resemble those in some English counties and he accepted this was 'par for the course' but that he wouldn't be coming back because of the poor state of some roads in Scotland.
I confess to yelling out things along the lines of "FFS" a few times myself.
As a rider with a diminishing cognitive capability along the ride, only being able to track individuals and session security errors etc was a real pain. I wanted to know where the rest of my team was as a minimum, were they alright? Were they asleep and if so for where/how long? (could we all catch up?) etc It felt like all the components were there to resolve some real world user needs - at the moment, just less than 12 hours after finishing, the rider tracking has been taken down, luckily I have a screen grab, but I can't check if friends made it etc. (**ETA** Phil has now put up a provisional finisher's list :thumbsup: )
I confess to yelling out things along the lines of "FFS" a few times myself.
We had sponge most of the time in Barney, with optional custard.
One rider was distinctly grumpy with me that we only had one sort of cake. As I say - can't do right for doing wrong.
I thought about providing cake at St Ives, but the sheer logistics of the number of tray bakes that we would have had to work on to feed 1500 riders twice (baking is labour intensive both in the cooking and the cleaning) put me off. We settled for fruit salad instead which was still labour intensive but less than baking. We did buy in flapjacks which we did ration (we didn't ration any of the hot food) as from past experience this was essential in ensuring that the later riders had a choice.
Another thing we were asked for a lot was eggs, which again I shied away from in terms of labour intensity (at peak times controls can turn over 200 riders an hour which even with simple one pot food required 10 - 12 kitchen helpers (and more people even in a secondary school kitchen would be a challenge). But my wife came up with the suggestion of Spanish omelette - Tortillas - which can be prepped in advance.
I reckon the event entry could be improved, rather than places being allocated to whoever could type the fastest to fill out the checkout forms the fastest I wonder if having entry via a ballot (a bit like RideLondon 100) would be more fair?
I reckon the event entry could be improved, rather than places being allocated to whoever could type the fastest to fill out the checkout forms the fastest I wonder if having entry via a ballot (a bit like RideLondon 100) would be more fair?
In addition to the volunteer t-shirts, a fleece or sweatshirt for those outside jobs when it's chilly.
I could have usefully used GlowSticks at the entrance to Spalding when the street lights went out.
Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!
Be allowed to carry over unused entries
In addition to the volunteer t-shirts, a fleece or sweatshirt for those outside jobs when it's chilly.
I could have usefully used GlowSticks at the entrance to Spalding when the street lights went out.
I certainly do - I was thinking of the corporate style making it easier for riders to identify volunteers in the scrum that the bike parking / control entry could be on occasions.In addition to the volunteer t-shirts, a fleece or sweatshirt for those outside jobs when it's chilly.
I could have usefully used GlowSticks at the entrance to Spalding when the street lights went out.
Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!
Do you not own a fleece or sweat shirt ?
And don't try to tell me the problems come from newbies - some of the worst offenders are the arrogant elite alpha males with many victories under the belt who expect to be treated like royalty and get very uppity when their wheel can't be fixed quickly or the breakfast isn't up to five star hotel standards.
Oooh - do name names. We love to point, laugh, and tell people they're nobbers - especially when it means we're agreeing with you ...
Oooh - do name names. We love to point, laugh, and tell people they're nobbers - especially when it means we're agreeing with you ...
Much though I enjoy bitching, it lacks the excellence we strive to maintain here. Bitch in private if you must.
Much though I enjoy bitching, it lacks the excellence we strive to maintain here. Bitch in private if you must.
In addition to the volunteer t-shirts, a fleece or sweatshirt for those outside jobs when it's chilly.
I could have usefully used GlowSticks at the entrance to Spalding when the street lights went out.
Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!
Do you not own a fleece or sweat shirt ?
Glowsticks .. that is for each control to organise .. not centrally .. but we might try to remember to remind them .
In addition to the volunteer t-shirts, a fleece or sweatshirt for those outside jobs when it's chilly.
I could have usefully used GlowSticks at the entrance to Spalding when the street lights went out.
Tapatalk puts this signature here, not me!
Do you not own a fleece or sweat shirt ?
Glowsticks .. that is for each control to organise .. not centrally .. but we might try to remember to remind them .
I think that having volunteers inside wearing clearly identifiable tops helped a lot of very tired people when they needed to ask a question/find something - so not too silly to have something similar for the volunteers when outside in the cold or wet.
But it is also darn hard to remember everything eventually.Start writing a list now?
Nobody seemed to struggle to identify that I was a volunteer despite my lack of corporate branding - I failed the size limit test, but stuck on a lanyard and a name badge and mucked in anyway :D
I don't know if there was any central direction on this, but at Eskdalemuir, Denise, the Tiny Controller, insisted on anyone on the road duties wearing a hi-viz tabard.Didn't wear hi-vis on the gate at Spalding. It was 'interesting' after midnight when the street lights went out - but I don't think hi-vis would have had any benefit either for riders or volunteers (YMMV)
Someone brought a couple of Hi-Viz vests to Pocklington, which were in use on the gate and bike park during the hours of darkness. We also improvised a direction-lighty-thing with one of those small LED wall light things. No one complained! (No one overshot the gate either - well, not while I was on duty!!) ;)
The main problem (apart from that amongst 1400 riders there are bound to be multiple pairs of similar shoes) was that whilst the rule was shoes off, there was no planned provision for where people should put those shoes/what they should do with those shoes.
You may have told us, but you know what my memory is like...Someone brought a couple of Hi-Viz vests to Pocklington, which were in use on the gate and bike park during the hours of darkness. We also improvised a direction-lighty-thing with one of those small LED wall light things. No one complained! (No one overshot the gate either - well, not while I was on duty!!) ;)
You only had to ask there was a bag of approx 20 hi viz vests, I thought I had told you all where they were :) :) :)
That central comms board that I suggested a bit back....Sorry, didn't mean to come across as trying to steal your idea, just adding my voice that it's a great idea. There were times when we tried to get in touch with other controls with no answer. Having some sort of messaging would have really helped.
Totally agree, something like a Skype conversation between all the controls and also maybe a central person (who could have been at home rather than facing two hundred tired and hungry riders) who could check event rules, provide guidance etc. For example at Brampton we were asked by many riders whether they should take the A or B route on their GPS to Moffat. We could not ourselves find any way to understand what was A and B (we looked at the file download names on the website but that didn't help) and so I think to start with we assumed A was the favoured main road route and sent a few that way, until we wised up and just said "take the 74km option not the 71km". Someone centrally who could have supplied a definitive answer on this would have been very useful.That central comms board that I suggested a bit back....Sorry, didn't mean to come across as trying to steal your idea, just adding my voice that it's a great idea. There were times when we tried to get in touch with other controls with no answer. Having some sort of messaging would have really helped.
Mandatory "SHOE TAGS". NOT Joking- but only just.The mixing up of shoes was discussed before the event because it has happened before, and if you read the threads for this years event it happened again.
At Barney someone from the control team had obviously clocked at some point that there was a sensible spot in the dining room with several free sockets, and so had organised several multi-way extension leads. We still had riders complaining (to the cook!) that they couldn't charge devices as well as a number of riders asking to plug in garmins to the control laptop to charge as they only had the necessary to charge over USB. I took the view when I was on the desk that I wasn't plugging any unknown device into the laptop that was allowing us to check people in...
Maybe LEL 2021 should charge for charging ....more volunteer time needed.and how do you stop someone plugging a device into a vacant electric socket?
I was quite astonished after all the warnings that so much charging was available - and that so many people were absolutely reliant upon it. Way of the world innit? I reckon that the majority of riders were using GPS.
I recommended GPS to any foreign riders doing LEL. Very few countries have routesheets as complex and with such closely-spaced turns as LEL's.
This.I recommended GPS to any foreign riders doing LEL. Very few countries have routesheets as complex and with such closely-spaced turns as LEL's.
As long as they know how to use them. Having an error in the file from Pocklington going south was a real nightmare when working at the front desk. Some people could handle it fine, but some didn't have a clue what to do. We had one volunteer who was familiar enough with the various units to be able to update some, but I think she was the only one. I didn't feel comfortable playing with a GPS I didn't know how to use and potentially doing something to kill the riders data or future routes.
I recommended GPS to any foreign riders doing LEL. Very few countries have routesheets as complex and with such closely-spaced turns as LEL's.
But if you bolloxed up your gps in some way you wouldn't expect us on the control desk to sort it out for you, would you LWaB? And that is what we were contending with, repeatedly. Riders wanting assistance to charge or load files onto their gps devices.You have my sympathies. I was only 100km into the route this year, but we had at least 3 GPS dramas to sort out. (I'm glad to say that all the riders were polite and patient). What it was like further north ... the mind boggles!
Volunteers like to exceed expectations. The problem is that this year's "above and beyond" (lending or indeed donating shoes/wheels/bikes/parts etc for example) is liable to become next time's expectation, e.g. last time around the expectation, IIRC, was that there'd be a workshop area if you needed to fix your bike and that volunteers would help where possible. Some heroic volunteers slooged through the week doing nothing but fixing bikes. This seemed to turn into an expectation of a 24/7 staffed workshop with spares for sale and a mechanic to fix your bike while you waited this time.Very true.
At Barney someone from the control team had obviously clocked at some point that there was a sensible spot in the dining room with several free sockets, and so had organised several multi-way extension leads. We still had riders complaining (to the cook!) that they couldn't charge devices as well as a number of riders asking to plug in garmins to the control laptop to charge as they only had the necessary to charge over USB. I took the view when I was on the desk that I wasn't plugging any unknown device into the laptop that was allowing us to check people in...
I recommended GPS to any foreign riders doing LEL. Very few countries have routesheets as complex and with such closely-spaced turns as LEL's.
As long as they know how to use them. Having an error in the file from Pocklington going south was a real nightmare when working at the front desk. Some people could handle it fine, but some didn't have a clue what to do. We had one volunteer who was familiar enough with the various units to be able to update some, but I think she was the only one. I didn't feel comfortable playing with a GPS I didn't know how to use and potentially doing something to kill the riders data or future routes.
Time stamps in the Pocklington - Louth track caused problems in Edge units. Any hiking type unit such as Etrex , GPSMap had no issues what so ever with the track. All test rides using that track of which there were about a dozen were done on hiking type units and had no issues. Website route pages had no issues with displaying that track correctly. So I had no reason to suspect there was a problem or look inside the supplied GPX tracks I'd been passed to put on the website route pages.
It only became apparent Edge units had an issue with that track during the event. Which indicates not a single Edge user had actually checked to ensure everything worked correctly with the official tracks till the very last minute. Or if they had had issues they didn't think to let the LEL team know. Whilst we were able to remove the time stamps and load a new GPX track to the website. It wouldn't be practical for everyone to access that and get it on their Edge units. We did pass a message to Pocklington. The obvious thing for a GPS user is to reverse and use the northbound Louth Pocklington track already on the GPS.
And the solution is?One solution would be for those recommending GPS* to setup a support group for those riders. Everyone wins - simples! :P
Riders will use GPS devices, some of them will fall over, some riders will not be able to repair the problem themselves. LEL could deliberately make no provision at all for repairing riders' bicycles (self-sufficiency, of course) but that seems a little harsh.
I recommended GPS to any foreign riders doing LEL. Very few countries have routesheets as complex and with such closely-spaced turns as LEL's.
As long as they know how to use them. Having an error in the file from Pocklington going south was a real nightmare when working at the front desk. Some people could handle it fine, but some didn't have a clue what to do. We had one volunteer who was familiar enough with the various units to be able to update some, but I think she was the only one. I didn't feel comfortable playing with a GPS I didn't know how to use and potentially doing something to kill the riders data or future routes.
Time stamps in the Pocklington - Louth track caused problems in Edge units. Any hiking type unit such as Etrex , GPSMap had no issues what so ever with the track. All test rides using that track of which there were about a dozen were done on hiking type units and had no issues. Website route pages had no issues with displaying that track correctly. So I had no reason to suspect there was a problem or look inside the supplied GPX tracks I'd been passed to put on the website route pages.
It only became apparent Edge units had an issue with that track during the event. Which indicates not a single Edge user had actually checked to ensure everything worked correctly with the official tracks till the very last minute. Or if they had had issues they didn't think to let the LEL team know. Whilst we were able to remove the time stamps and load a new GPX track to the website. It wouldn't be practical for everyone to access that and get it on their Edge units. We did pass a message to Pocklington. The obvious thing for a GPS user is to reverse and use the northbound Louth Pocklington track already on the GPS.
You see the same issue with GPX tracks supplied on much shorter Audax UK events. One or two I've had to adjust and give feedback to the org so they work on my GPS correctly and aren't truncated etc.
I've also seen a FB post where someone claims the LEL Route took them down a bridle way between Spalding and St Ives. As the LEL GPX is a track only it indicates they were trying to navigate as a route and let their GPS determine which way to go, not following the pre determined GPX track as supplied.
As always it just showing a greater level of GPS use and also inexperience amongst riders.
1. Using a GPX file you didn't create? Check it meets your needs on your unit, and the way you use it, and look for any issues, well in advance. If you find any let the organiser know and adjust as necessary.
2. Have a back up in case you missed something in 1. I remember on one Audax I'd forgotten to load one of the GPX tracks. Backup route sheet came out and I finished off the ride.
Regardless, this problem is going to continue. Are we prepared to smile and wave goodbye to these riders as they disappear off-route and time-out?
1. Using a GPX file you didn't create? Check it meets your needs on your unit, ...A big +1 ^
... I hadn't spotted (because I don't look at gps files or routesheets when I download them), ...::-)
Helly I think you should rename this thread 'Hindsight is a wonderful thing' ;)
I was actually meaning an old skool noticeboard for within the control. For the stuff like 'tell qwe123 that they've found their usb memory stick full of pR0n in the bogs at such-and-such control and will keep it on the control desk for them to collect southbound'; 'the vounteer partner of rider abc987 has fallen asleep under the dishwasher and says don't bother to wake them up unless abc987 is exhibiting actual tears or blood when they arrive'; 'rider xyz001 says to tell xyz002 "I looked everywhere for you and couldn't find you so am setting off hoping to find you on the road and please don't divorce me if you haven't actually left yet and were actually just locked in the portaloo"'; 'DON'T USE the 3rd cubicle from the left in the men's toilets' type things. Or 'hi viz vests in box below - help yourself for outdoor shifts'.I didn't use it, but there was a facility to add notes to a rider's details which I hope would have popped up when details were scanned.
And the solution is?One solution would be for those recommending GPS* to setup a support group for those riders. Everyone wins - simples! :P
Riders will use GPS devices, some of them will fall over, some riders will not be able to repair the problem themselves. LEL could deliberately make no provision at all for repairing riders' bicycles (self-sufficiency, of course) but that seems a little harsh.
*(click to show/hide)
I was actually meaning an old skool noticeboard for within the control.I didn't use it, but there was a facility to add notes to a rider's details which I hope would have popped up when details were scanned.
I know the server size was increased and this improved thing greatly, but perhaps query the rider tracking details/statistics from a second database, preserving performance in the scanning page.
I know the server size was increased and this improved thing greatly, but perhaps query the rider tracking details/statistics from a second database, preserving performance in the scanning page.
Bit more nuanced than that.
[ ... Stuff ... ]
Right, back to as you were. I intend to ride LEL 2021.
I'm not sure how a user of an edge unit would be able to check the route in advance without loading it into something else first, they operate differently to the walking type GPS units you refer to, so at best you could look at the map of the route, but perhaps not see the order of points, and probably not diagnose track point times as a problem
I know the server size was increased and this improved thing greatly, but perhaps query the rider tracking details/statistics from a second database, preserving performance in the scanning page.
Bit more nuanced than that.
[ ... Stuff ... ]
Right, back to as you were. I intend to ride LEL 2021.
Thank *fuck* you know what that lot meant.
I was actually meaning an old skool noticeboard for within the control.I didn't use it, but there was a facility to add notes to a rider's details which I hope would have popped up when details were scanned.
I clearly haven't made this clear enough.... my bold above. I mean a noticeboard, not electonic, for knackered volunteers to communicate stuff to other knackered volunteers within a single control.
Anything computerised doesn't work for this because most volunteers aren't using computers most of the time.
I think a noticeboard could help to avoid the communication-by-chinese-whispers which is fairly inevitable when communication WITHIN the control, during the event, is verbal and people are working bizarre shift patterns 24 hours a day for several days, with the added complication of foreign languages.
I'm not sure how a user of an edge unit would be able to check the route in advance without loading it into something else first, they operate differently to the walking type GPS units you refer to, so at best you could look at the map of the route, but perhaps not see the order of points, and probably not diagnose track point times as a problem
It's quite simple. Even with the latest Edge units they still appear as a USB drive when you plug them in. At least on Windows. You can drop a GPX file in the new files folder on the SD card or internal memory of an edge and when you unplug and switch on and off it will convert to fit file format. Then you try navigating it and you see when it brings up the map page there's a long straight line instead of the LEL track you thought you'd loaded.
In fact I did this with a German fellow who caught me at Thirsk control on the Monday. He was worried and asked if I'd help him put the fixed Pocklington - Louth track on the website onto his Edge GPS unit
You don't need intermediate software to put GPX files on an Edge and use them.
P.S. All of the trackpoints were present in the GPX file Edges objected to. It just those south of the Humber Bridge had time stamps in them dates May 2013. In fact it's probably the conversion to fit that it does internally that failed when it didn't know what to do with the timestamps it's GPX to fit parser encountered
We did put labels on the counter top at Barney, but seeing these would have required hungry riders to lift their eyes from the sight of large platters of nosh, so the experiment was not entirely successful ;D.
I always check that the route appears on the map when I put a section of an audax on to the GPS - but I don't look any further than does it start and stop where expected, this is usually at the 12km scale. I look at the intermediate detail elsewhere. If there is some mix up in the sequencing of track points, it would be hard to see without zooming in and following the track at sub-3km scale.
Did it get used, and was it useful?
We had a noticeboard in BC behind the comtrol desk, but it was a pinboard that got used for info for riders (and for pinning up stray lost property in hope of re-uniting it with its rider). I was looking at it on the last day and thinking 'we should have put volunteer info on the back of that!'.
Clear expectations about how much support DNFers can expect with getting themselves back to the start.This might have been useful. I found myself as travel advisor to quite a few DNFs at Brampton, explaining to them how to book themselves and bikes back to London on the train. It's not that easy - and the savings by using the advance booking system (even for trains later the same day) were significant (£50 vs £115 walk up fare). On Monday 31st I merrily used the Virgin East Coast website with some success, come Tues 1st August they had moved completely to their new "improved" booking site with no bike reservation option. So I went over to GWR. Still had some issues with riders who had left their credit cards in their car at Loughton (why?) and a couple of Indian riders with prepaid mastercards which weren't useful at all.
the expectation we want to avoidDanial's mobile rang at Loughton and was answered by a volunteer to be told by the Indian chap on the other end he had packed, was outside Thirsk and he wanted us to send a car to pick him up. A diplomatic answer was provided.
You can also access WhatsApp via a desktop PC.
In passing, this soshul meeja stuff seems to me to be more comprehensive this time than last, and no doubt will be more so next time. For instance, the OMM, a mountain marathon, a few years ago had live streaming of the finish line and that was from the middle of nowhere in central Wales. Attention to this doesn't really improve the rider experience, IMO, and is a "nice-to-have" rather than "must-do". But asking one volunteer at each control to do some social media stuff would increase the profile of the event, and help relatives who are tracking riders.
the expectation we want to avoidDanial's mobile rang at Loughton and was answered by a volunteer to be told by the Indian chap on the other end he had packed, was outside Thirsk and he wanted us to send a car to pick him up. A diplomatic answer was provided.
Danial's mobile rang at Loughton and was answered by a volunteer to be told by the Indian chap on the other end he had packed, was outside Thirsk and he wanted us to send a car to pick him up. A diplomatic answer was provided.
the broom symbol on the brevet cardThat should not be there next time IMO.
Talking of signs. This is only a very minor one, but could the 2021 banners have a picture of a bike/cyclist on them as well as the event logo and name please?
While I was marshalling outside of the main bulge coming through, I had a lot of people come up and ask what sort of event it was
Without trawling through all 8 pages of posts I do not know if this has already been mentioned, but my suggestion, which would have really helped me, is to be actually woken up at the time I requested rather than being left to sleep and wake up naturally several hours later than planned :facepalm:This gets mentioned after every LEL/PBP that I can remember. I suppose if a wake-up call is promised (and alarms are banned) then an expectation has been set, and complaints (or suggestions) are inevitbale; but let's look at this - did it really affect your ride negatively?
Started at 1045. Good first day and gained time on my schedule. Arrived at Pocklington at 0455, had food and went to the sleeping hall at 0530 with instructions to wake me at 0745. I came to at 0915 !![my bold] So you "lost" 90mins. Now that really isn't a massive deal on a 116h ride. But let's move on:
I left pre-dawn on the leg to Brampton. Due to getting no sleep at Eskdalemuir, on the stretch from Longtown to Brampton, the sleep deprivation really hit me and I couldn't keep my eyes open.It's pretty clear that it was LACK of sleep that did for you, not getting 90mins too much!
... but arrived at Eskdalemuir freezing cold and decided to sleep there. WRONG DECISION. I had to go 1 Km back up the road to the village hall, where I was shown to a mattress, but there were no blankets. Due to being damp, I spend the next 2 hours shivering and getting no sleep.
I'm not saying that not been woken at Pocklington was the sole reason for my DNF, but it was a contributing factor as this put me behind where I felt I needed to be, and therefore put me under more pressure.It may have changed how you felt about your situation, but in reality - when you look at the bigger picture - it may have actually done you some good. I doubt very much that it did you any harm.
[...] but my suggestion [...]
what systematic changes could be made to help prevent errorsTell riders that alarms are banned: suggest they put their mobile phone in a pocket with the alarm set to silent/vibrate. And that if participants ride cold they wear more clothes.
No, not passive aggressive at all, as I queried this at the time when I woke up. But the person on duty was not the same person who was there at the time I went to sleep and indeed came on shift after I was supposed to have been woken up, so I couldn't really blame them for the error.
I realise that no system is infallible, and IIRC the system employed at Pocklington was one of sticky notes on a white board. Whether my note fell off (wasn't sticky enough) or was accidently knocked off I will never know.
OK a suggestion.... could a bed allocation programme be written which shows a grid pattern of bed numbers where the wake time is entered against the bed. The particular grid would turn red at the wake up time to reached as an alert to the person on duty. I'm sure for a computer savvy programmer this would be a fairly simple exercise.
And that if participants ride cold they wear more clothes.
OK a suggestion.... could a bed allocation programme be written which shows a grid pattern of bed numbers where the wake time is entered against the bed. The particular grid would turn red at the wake up time to reached as an alert to the person on duty. I'm sure for a computer savvy programmer this would be a fairly simple exercise.
No, not passive aggressive at all, as I queried this at the time when I woke up. But the person on duty was not the same person who was there at the time I went to sleep and indeed came on shift after I was supposed to have been woken up, so I couldn't really blame them for the error.
I realise that no system is infallible, and IIRC the system employed at Pocklington was one of sticky notes on a white board. Whether my note fell off (wasn't sticky enough) or was accidently knocked off I will never know.
OK a suggestion.... could a bed allocation programme be written which shows a grid pattern of bed numbers where the wake time is entered against the bed. The particular grid would turn red at the wake up time to reached as an alert to the person on duty. I'm sure for a computer savvy programmer this would be a fairly simple exercise.
Or even just an excel spreadsheet with a conditional format and a couple of macros! (as an idea)
I think the suggestion of some sort of standard operating manual for the key functions was already mentioned, and bed management might also fall in to that as well?
OK a suggestion.... could a bed allocation programme be written which shows a grid pattern of bed numbers where the wake time is entered against the bed. The particular grid would turn red at the wake up time to reached as an alert to the person on duty. I'm sure for a computer savvy programmer this would be a fairly simple exercise.
There were computer bed-booking systems in 2013 and this year. They get abandoned fairly early on, if people bother with them at all.
But the person on duty was not the same person who was there at the time I went to sleep and indeed came on shift after I was supposed to have been woken up, so I couldn't really blame them for the error....and thinking about the times that it seemed to get a little bit tricky at the controls that I was in, where there were generally two people on the bed management* generally doing 4 hour 'shifts' then handing over to another 2 volunteers and it seems to me that one easy win would be if possible to have two people on shift running the beds, but to not have their shifts start at the same time e.g. PersonA 10pm-2am, PersonB midnight-4am, PersonC 2am-6am, PersonD 4am-8am and so on... so that you have a series of constantly overlapping people with continous handover rather than trying to handover everything in one go?
I used my smartwatch to set an alarm, it buzzes gently on my wrist and I can't even hear it myself so won't disturb other sleepers.
I used my smartwatch to set an alarm, it buzzes gently on my wrist and I can't even hear it myself so won't disturb other sleepers.
In 2009 I ended up day 1 at Thorne (not an official sleep stop, no mattresses, but the rugby club had a load of space in the bar area so people just slumped on the floor) after an 8am start and ~320km. The bar was shut by the time I got there so I opted for 3 hours of sleep. I set my phone alarm to silent and tucked it into my sock.
I was woken up by someone who was sitting near where I was sleeping (luckily they were already awake and having their breakfast) as they could hear my phone vibrating away and noticed I wasn't stirring.
But the person on duty was not the same person who was there at the time I went to sleep and indeed came on shift after I was supposed to have been woken up, so I couldn't really blame them for the error....and thinking about the times that it seemed to get a little bit tricky at the controls that I was in, where there were generally two people on the bed management* generally doing 4 hour 'shifts' then handing over to another 2 volunteers and it seems to me that one easy win would be if possible to have two people on shift running the beds, but to not have their shifts start at the same time e.g. PersonA 10pm-2am, PersonB midnight-4am, PersonC 2am-6am, PersonD 4am-8am and so on... so that you have a series of constantly overlapping people with continous handover rather than trying to handover everything in one go?
And then the one that is very much down to 'us' and not to 'them', more volunteers. Although weirdly my 2017 wasn't actually as tough in most respects as 2013 was (having the school kitchen/cleaning staff, who worked incredibly hard, was a massive factor in this) that was proper tough nonetheless. Many hands make light work...
Brampton had a row of small sandwich boxes, each one contained tickets with the same wake-up time. Heather informs me that a volunteer called Phil refined the system so that the tickets in the boxes were sorted into a logical route, and groups of 5 were woken, so they could be checked out, and the tickets torn.
Obviously there was a chart as well.
We've got video of the PBP 2015 system, which had a computer element.
Clear expectations about how much support DNFers can expect with getting themselves back to the start.This might have been useful. I found myself as travel advisor to quite a few DNFs at Brampton, explaining to them how to book themselves and bikes back to London on the train. It's not that easy - and the savings by using the advance booking system (even for trains later the same day) were significant (£50 vs £115 walk up fare). On Monday 31st I merrily used the Virgin East Coast website with some success, come Tues 1st August they had moved completely to their new "improved" booking site with no bike reservation option. So I went over to GWR. Still had some issues with riders who had left their credit cards in their car at Loughton (why?) and a couple of Indian riders with prepaid mastercards which weren't useful at all.
In hindsight it would have been useful to have a sheet giving details generally of how to book bikes on trains which we could have given out. Even for UK riders who don't usually travel by train it can be a bit tricky.
Maybe we went beyond the call of duty with this, but for the overseas riders there was a point where I felt it was a hospitality issue - and putting myself in their position I would have been grateful for the same assistance.
Sure, people are tired, but such behaviour is utterly unacceptable (even if you were not dealing with volunteers, but paid employees).
I (sort of) understood what was required but my hour or two on beds in 2013 was utterly terrifying, despite the control being very quiet at that point. I (literally) did a happy dance when I saw there was no bed booking on my rota because I know I'd a) be awful at it and b) find it unbelievably stressful!
By the end of the 2nd night we'd got the system well refined and running smoothly - the problem is there's now a break break of 4 years before it happens again with a new group of volunteers learning on the job. I am planning to put together a "how to manage the dormitories guide" in the next few weeks which may help.
I always think there's a bit of a conflict of interests really. From the perspective of running the control efficiently and effectively it makes sense to give people the jobs they already know how to do or train them in one job and keep them doing that all the time. But that ends up with people spending their whole time on bogs or potwash, which isn't really very fair.
I hope PhoenixJim is around to amplify this as he was controller at Spalding. We didn't have formal rotas, and it seemed to work exceptionally well. We seemed to fall into three loose teams - catering, beds, and everything else. We rotated tasks among ourselves and I didn't notice any obvious signs of stress or unhappiness.
Helping riders with their electronic (ok - Garmin) problems was something I hadn't anticipated. It took a fair amount of time, and I ran out of computers at one point. Should I have spent that amount of time helping individuals like this ? That's another question. There's only so much time ... what help should riders expect ?
Helping riders with their electronic (ok - Garmin) problems was something I hadn't anticipated. It took a fair amount of time, and I ran out of computers at one point. Should I have spent that amount of time helping individuals like this ? That's another question. There's only so much time ... what help should riders expect ?
Each control should have nicely laminated route cards to the next control on sale at a premium for those foolish enough to rely on their garmin without any form of backup.
Some controls didn't have dairy free milk either visable or available when asked. Thirsk had none full stop, I couldn't find any at Barnard Castle or Brampton. This means that cereal is off the cards. I didn't starve and worked around it however.
Some controls didn't have dairy free milk either visable or available when asked. Thirsk had none full stop, I couldn't find any at Barnard Castle or Brampton. This means that cereal is off the cards. I didn't starve and worked around it however.
If it's cereal you want you can always eat it dry. I do, every morning.
In a world where leftover yeast extract is a national dish ...
Catering for vegans, even on a small scale is a minefield, as I found out when I help a party at home earlier this month.
I'm an obsessional ingredient reader and order from Sainsbury's online.
Chickpea patties were termed 'falafel' 'felafel' and 'falafels'; searching for 'felafel' would not give the 'falafel' they stocked.
One variety was gluten-free, vegan, Halal and Kosher.
The others were not...
Some of what I'm about to post is deliberately provocative
Wow. There's so much useful input on this board that I'm almost sorry I won't be a controller in 2021! Some of what I'm about to post is deliberately provocative (and, as I'm sure our provision at St Ives this year will testify to, not how I and Colin handled things this year).
Providing for vegetarians is relatively easy. Veganism is greatly more difficult, and currently remains a significantly small minority (that's an observation, not a judgement). While I am confident that all of the veggie food provided at St Ives was also suitable for vegans (and I know Colin put considerable effort into this), it is quite difficult to be absolutely certain, especially when it is not a vegan preparing the menu and thus familiar with the pitfalls. So on an event like this I think that it is foolhardy for the Organisation to state that vegan food will be available throughout or for a vegan rider to rely on it. To be honest, I find it difficult to believe that vegans think differently - there's too much at risk.
A similar argument could be made about other "extreme" dietary needs, such as gluten free and dairy free. It seems slightly strange to call these extreme, but the fact is that to someone who is not susceptible to gluten, or dairy, it is quite difficult to be sufficiently on the ball to confidently cater for those that are. I know that at St Ives the spread used on the bread was not dairy free (nor vegan), and we did not flag that up (it's only on reading this thread that I realised that).
While I have every sympathy with those who choose to, or even more so for those that have to, follow restricted diets, the responsibility has to rest with them, and at the end of the day they may have to eat somewhere other than the control. As amateurs in the catering business it would be foolish to rely on volunteer caterers to provide such specialist diets.
Having said that, I sincerely hope that we did indeed manage to provide something suitable for every single rider through our doors at St Ives. You may not have liked our selection, but hopefully it was edible!
''restricted'', ''extreme'', a bit ignorant/flippant imo.
With some insight it can be relatively easy to cater for vegans - you'd be surprised.
[ ... ]
to say that to cater for vegans is ''greatly more difficult'' as to supposedly not try is rubbish.
''restricted'', ''extreme'', a bit ignorant/flippant imo.
With some insight it can be relatively easy to cater for vegans - you'd be surprised.
[ ... ]
to say that to cater for vegans is ''greatly more difficult'' as to supposedly not try is rubbish.
Did you actually read phil d's post? You're either replying to what you think he might have said, or you're deliberately setting up straw men.
He and the team at St Ives didn't "not try" to cater for vegans: he explicitly said he was confident that all the veggie food was also vegan, and has acknowledged the error made with the spread.
He says some diets are restricted because, er, they are.
He uses "extreme" in quotes, and then discusses the difficulty he sees in confidently identifying dairy or gluten content - 100% of the time - unless you're particularly attuned to it. (As someone whose brother is coeliac, so requires a gluten-free diet, and whose wife has a number of food allergies, some of which, while probably not life-threatening given prompt treatment, would quite likely put her in an ambulance under blue lights, I can confidently assert that many so-called food professionals don't have a clue about how to handle such dietary needs.)
I think he deserves an apology from you for calling him ignorant and flippant: his post seemed to me thoughtful and insightful about the difficulties of running a pop-up catering operation such as at a control.
A misconception that vegans are "...greatly more difficult" to cater for due to a "restrictive" and/or "extreme" diet. Basic plant based carbs that you would get at controls such as potatoes, beans, pasta, bread, fruit and dry cereal are all vegan.
Hi Lee,
As the controller for Thirsk, I am sorry you were told that there was no soya milk. I suspect that this was a communication error (as I saw some myself in the fridge - however this was towards the end of the event so may have been bought after you had been through the control). It was certainly part of the catering brief.
I hope PhoenixJim is around to amplify this as he was controller at Spalding. We didn't have formal rotas, and it seemed to work exceptionally well. We seemed to fall into three loose teams - catering, beds, and everything else. We rotated tasks among ourselves and I didn't notice any obvious signs of stress or unhappiness.
Nice that Spalding worked well but I reckon people need to work within their capabilities for best results. Some people aren't cut out for some tasks and expecting them to do these is fair on nobody.
It's easy when everyone CAN do anything but...
Nice that Spalding worked well but I reckon people need to work within their capabilities for best results. Some people aren't cut out for some tasks and expecting them to do these is fair on nobody.I didn't wish to imply that Spalding was perfect and the one true model, but as CanaryBoy said, it worked well for that group of people at that moment in time.
It's easy when everyone CAN do anything but...
The system at Moffat seemed pretty simple and bombproof, and if you were looking for a system I'd start there. One picture of that big sheet of paper revealed at one glance how it worked.
A misconception that vegans are "...greatly more difficult" to cater for due to a "restrictive" and/or "extreme" diet. Basic plant based carbs that you would get at controls such as potatoes, beans, pasta, bread, fruit and dry cereal are all vegan.
Bread's a standard gotcha. It's not uncommon for whey powder to sneak in there. I'd want to check the ingredients on baked beans too (I know proper Heinz ones are fine, but cheaper brands might not be).
This is the sort of thing that doesn't occur to people without experience of what to check for. Common sense only gets you so far.
What were the frustrations? We had a few issues at Moffat, but I think they due to shift changes & misunderstandings.
A standard system is a great idea.
Standardisation could also work for other aspects of running a control.
In Barney the main gates were a long way from the control and the larger dormitory was likewise somewhat distant. And the mobile signal was dreadful. At least a rota meant you knew when someone was due to relieve you when you were stranded at an outpost...We bought walkie-talkies for exactly this reason. Every control should have a set. We always had 1 at the gate, 1 at the front desk, 1 in the kitchen and 1 with controller Iddu.
The system at Moffat seemed pretty simple and bombproof, and if you were looking for a system I'd start there. One picture of that big sheet of paper revealed at one glance how it worked.
Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat. And I wasn't the only one - there were a few complainers hanging around, and one poor volunteer was taking the flak for something that was not her fault.
I'm not complaining - I got an extra hour's sleep, and if I hadn't been so careless as to let my phone battery die, I'd have known the time and been able to get myself up. But it wasn't bombproof.
Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat.
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.
Spalding had the best solution IMHO for this issue. They used three barriers and created tiangles. Downside probably is this requires more space.
Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat.
And you still finished? In time??
Chapeau!
A grand team effort. :thumbsup:Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat.
And you still finished? In time??
Chapeau!
+1 for cable ties... We just attached the sleeping Deano to his fixed gear bike and off he went.
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.
I don't remember the bike parking barriers at Spalding blowing over, but that might have been because I was too busy rescuing the entrance barriers which had blown over!A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.
Spalding had the best solution IMHO for this issue. They used three barriers and created tiangles. Downside probably is this requires more space.
In the run-up to registration, maybe there should be a rider manual that you have to read and a multiple choice quiz on it that you have to complete. There would need to be a lot of translation work to avoid disadvantaging those with weak or no English, but it might be particularly helpful for people with little English to already understand some of these things so that they don't have to be explained in the thick of it.Good plan - but I'd suggest a video?etc
- why are food portion sizes limited at some controls ?
- if I'm still hungry can I go back for seconds ? What about thirds and forths ?
- why can't I reserve my bed now and then go and eat ?
- frostbite coming over Yad Moss, is that a real thing ?
- how much do the control workers in the red shirts get paid ?
- which of the following types of mechanical failure effected more riders in 2017 ? ...
- why do we have to keep taking our shoes off ?
- what should I do if I a have mechanical failure that I can't fix myself half way between controls ?
- why is it important to scan out of controls ?
In the run-up to registration, maybe there should be a rider manual that you have to read and a multiple choice quiz on it that you have to complete. There would need to be a lot of translation work to avoid disadvantaging those with weak or no English, but it might be particularly helpful for people with little English to already understand some of these things so that they don't have to be explained in the thick of it.Good plan - but I'd suggest a video?etc
- why are food portion sizes limited at some controls ?
- if I'm still hungry can I go back for seconds ? What about thirds and forths ?
- why can't I reserve my bed now and then go and eat ?
- frostbite coming over Yad Moss, is that a real thing ?
- how much do the control workers in the red shirts get paid ?
- which of the following types of mechanical failure effected more riders in 2017 ? ...
- why do we have to keep taking our shoes off ?
- what should I do if I a have mechanical failure that I can't fix myself half way between controls ?
- why is it important to scan out of controls ?
Wow. There's so much useful input on this board that I'm almost sorry I won't be a controller in 2021! Some of what I'm about to post is deliberately provocative (and, as I'm sure our provision at St Ives this year will testify to, not how I and Colin handled things this year).
Providing for vegetarians is relatively easy. Veganism is greatly more difficult, and currently remains a significantly small minority (that's an observation, not a judgement). While I am confident that all of the veggie food provided at St Ives was also suitable for vegans (and I know Colin put considerable effort into this), it is quite difficult to be absolutely certain, especially when it is not a vegan preparing the menu and thus familiar with the pitfalls. So on an event like this I think that it is foolhardy for the Organisation to state that vegan food will be available throughout or for a vegan rider to rely on it. To be honest, I find it difficult to believe that vegans think differently - there's too much at risk.
A similar argument could be made about other "extreme" dietary needs, such as gluten free and dairy free. It seems slightly strange to call these extreme, but the fact is that to someone who is not susceptible to gluten, or dairy, it is quite difficult to be sufficiently on the ball to confidently cater for those that are. I know that at St Ives the spread used on the bread was not dairy free (nor vegan), and we did not flag that up (it's only on reading this thread that I realised that).
While I have every sympathy with those who choose to, or even more so for those that have to, follow restricted diets, the responsibility has to rest with them, and at the end of the day they may have to eat somewhere other than the control. As amateurs in the catering business it would be foolish to rely on volunteer caterers to provide such specialist diets.
Having said that, I sincerely hope that we did indeed manage to provide something suitable for every single rider through our doors at St Ives. You may not have liked our selection, but hopefully it was edible!
''restricted'', ''extreme'', a bit ignorant/flippant imo.
With some insight it can be relatively easy to cater for vegans - you'd be surprised. What is taken to be good honest audax grub is vegan. Jacket potatoes with beans (no butter), rice, pasta, fruit, cereal, beans on toast (providing no butter on the toast which non dairy). My only gripe on the whole was lack of soy milk if I wanted some cereal if the control had it. I fully accept that I won't be able to eat everything at a control but to say that to cater for vegans is ''greatly more difficult'' as to supposedly not try is rubbish.
One lesson I am going to take forward next time is to make it far more explicit that we make no guarantees of gluten-free food. We simply cannot cater for people for whom gluten is a crippling poison.
This was the first LEL that Sonya Crawford wasn't at the Edinburgh control. She's coeliac, and had some interesting ways around the problem.
She always had omeletes available, I usually had ham and cheese. There was always trifle as well, I assume with gluten-free cake in it. It was something of a tradition to tuck into that at 5am. There are a few bemused references to it in accounts of 2009 and earlier. Don't ask me what she did for vegans, as I haven't the faintest idea.
Being mostly on food service at st Ives, I found most veggies and vegans extremely grateful for the variety we offered thank entirely to Colin and those supporting him. There was no flippant attitude at all.
The only disgruntled diner I experienced was because he had to wait twenty minutes for soup. I had one guy looked like he was either going to burst into tears, or hug me when I showed him the vat of bean stew.
You miss the point and in doing so have invented a strawman argument. The idea that catering for vegans is extreme/difficult is what is flippant/ignorant not what xyz control did or did not have.
LEL is now heavily dependent on Schools for the controls and as such a clash with the Semaine Federale is now probably inevitable and unreconcilable.
What I'm pretty settled on is that if I'm running LEL2021, there will be a ballot rather than first-come first served. It will be more work for the LEL team, but less stressful for people looking to ride.
What I'm pretty settled on is that if I'm running LEL2021, there will be a ballot rather than first-come first served. It will be more work for the LEL team, but less stressful for people looking to ride.
I don't understand this, how can it be less stressful for those looking to ride? Neither means of getting a ride is desirable but, a ballot would to me appear to be just as much of a gamble as hovering over the buy it now button waiting for 1 minute past 12. I also hope the various means of guaranteed entry will remain.
London Marathon hopefuls seem very happy with a Ballot. I don't see the problem with them for LEL/PBP, but every time this comes up, some are against - I guess we just disagree!
I don't recall seeing/hearing much whingeing about LM entries - apart from the issues around GoodForAge times, but that doesn't apply to LEL. Yet ...
Right then... gluten freeness.
And finally as a matter of interest how many of us ticked the Gluten Free box?
Right then... gluten freeness.
And finally as a matter of interest how many of us ticked the Gluten Free box?
We managed to retrieve this figure from notes made at one of the York meetings: 38 is the answer for gluten free. In addition there were 39 requiring lactose free, 211 veggies, 54 vegans and 20 nut allergies.
There were discussions around providing gluten-free food and those controls with medical personnel on the organising team will have understood the importance of the issue more clearly than others. There is a LOT to think about in the run up to the event and it can easily be considered as a low priority matter, but if we ask the question on the entry form then we really should fulfill that requirement
I don't want to delve into the detail in public, but it was never the intention to guarantee gluten-free, nut-free or lactose-free food on the event. I'm very sorry that we ended up giving that impression.
Next time round I will make sure to be far more explicit about this. We simply cannot guarantee gluten-free, nut-free or lactose-free food, and if it's a life or death matter, I don't think this is the event for you.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.At Loughton, on Friday, after we'd set up the lines of bike park barriers, I deliberately went along fashioning the lines into gentle zigzags, to address the structural stability issue you've identified above. They still seemed to be standing when I helped take it all down seven days later (after a late Thursday finish and a good few hours sleep in the 'registration' dorm/gym).
It is slightly mixed messages that's all.
Indeed. And quite dangerous mixed messages too. I've already had one fairly strident complaint about gluten poisoning.
Best to make it absolutely explicit - this event is not suitable for people with food allergies that cripple or kill them.
Best to make it absolutely explicit - this event is not suitable for people with food allergies that cripple or kill them.
But let's not mix up the dangers of, for example, nut allergy, with the discomfort and other symptoms caused by sensitivity to gluten or coeliac disease. They probably need different guidance.
eg We cannot guarantee nut free food. We will attempt to provide a gluten-free choice at each control
people with food allergies that cripple or kill them.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.At Loughton, on Friday, after we'd set up the lines of bike park barriers, I deliberately went along fashioning the lines into gentle zigzags, to address the structural stability issue you've identified above. They still seemed to be standing when I helped take it all down seven days later (after a late Thursday finish and a good few hours sleep in the 'registration' dorm/gym).
But let's not mix up the dangers of, for example, nut allergy, with the discomfort and other symptoms caused by sensitivity to gluten or coeliac disease. They probably need different guidance.
eg We cannot guarantee nut free food. We will attempt to provide a gluten-free choice at each control
people with food allergies that cripple or kill them.
If such people are a small fraction of the riders, perhaps they could be allowed unlimited drop bags so that they can ensure there's something safe for them eat (even if it won't be hot) at every control.
I asked a German if there were rides the size of LEL in Germany. He said that legal problems would make it impossible.
Slightly OT but when I was organising a modest audax locally, a worthy from the council informed me that I would need to apply for a "Public Procession Licence". ???I asked a German if there were rides the size of LEL in Germany. He said that legal problems would make it impossible.
I was assuming that one of the reasons for splitting the start into many smaller groups was to avoid having to ask for a special license* for using the public highway for a private event.
*: there is probably a specific word for that in British legal lingua that I don't know!
*: there is probably a specific word for that in British legal lingua that I don't know!Slightly OT but when I was organising a modest audax locally, a worthy from the council informed me that I would need to apply for a "Public Procession Licence". ???
I'm not fully understanding this thread...Almost
AIUI AUK members got priority entry and had several weeks to enter before entry was extended to the rest of the world. Whether the latter is by ballot or first come will inevitably be a gamble. Either way the risk lies with the rider. So be it.
Anybody can avoid that risk simply by joining AUK. Given that the net cost of riding LEL for an overseas rider must be £5-600+, spending an extra £19 to guarantee entry would seem a good investment.
Ah Ha! Thanks, I'd missed that.I'm not fully understanding this thread...Almost
AIUI AUK members got priority entry and had several weeks to enter before entry was extended to the rest of the world. Whether the latter is by ballot or first come will inevitably be a gamble. Either way the risk lies with the rider. So be it.
Anybody can avoid that risk simply by joining AUK. Given that the net cost of riding LEL for an overseas rider must be £5-600+, spending an extra £19 to guarantee entry would seem a good investment.
Members who had been members since before April 2015 were guaranteed a place. So there is 51months of advance planning required as well as 3 years membership fees.
Slightly OT but when I rode my first 600 (very long time ago) I was getting a bit weary in the small hours and stopped in some Cotswold village to sit on a bench and try for a power nap. A local bobby strolled up and sat next to me and engaged me in friendly conversation (like people do, when you're trying to get to sleep). I was gobsmacked to learn that he had no idea what I was doing, no idea that there were 100+ cyclists making their way through his patch at dead of night.I've had the same conversation with late night bobbies on the Elenith. After my initial explanation came the traditional enquiry, "how many days..."
I had naturally assumed, when I entered and started the event, that the various police authorities along the entire route would have been made aware of the existence and timing of this cycling event on their roads. Silly me. ::-)