Author Topic: what 3 words  (Read 58083 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #150 on: 11 May, 2021, 08:50:56 pm »
If you're in an African shantytown or a Central Asian nomad encampment you probably don't feature on any map, haven never learnt to read one (and quite possibly can't read the w3w words either), don't have access to special software, and don't have emergency services, but you do need a way of getting a delivery of parts for your truck or getting a taxi out to do what we'd get an ambulance for. Which are supposedly the situations w3w was invented for (to the extent that it wasn't developed to make a small bunch of nerds rich).

For emergency services the UK and other shiny nations, we need operators to be able to accept a wide range of location systems, from street addresses with or without postcodes to lat-long to grid refs to w3w to whatever else people have come up with. Attempts at mandating one system or inventing one location to rule them all inevitably come unstuck in the face of people and the n+1th standard.
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woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
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Re: what 3 words
« Reply #151 on: 11 May, 2021, 09:11:16 pm »
I'm not defending w3wm I just find it fun and unique. I think some might find it easer to use. GPS location, grid refences is def right over some heads, where they can get words out as they use many of them daily. Yes as many here said, remember the correct spelling, does it have an s at the end or not. They can do that but numbers ...

It also depends on the user at both ends, I have had where the person whom you called have no local knowledge, so getting a junction or that there is church right across from the location will not help the person at the other end of the line. Or the person whom is telling you their location are saying that they are outside the yellow door, forgetting that there is X more in town, but if they just had paid attention to where they walked seconds before or is right behind them, they could have told you something that would have pinpointed it right away.

I have talked to many and also over heard many who are passing a location on. But don't use things that clearly would have helped as they don't see that as part of location and/or direction. One might see names of shops, companies  or colour, where the other see hills, bends of the road, lanes etc. Like standing outside the tube station, where there is a name printed above the door, that got a missive artwork, church or some such right next to it, but are explaining to the other person what the shops across the way are selling - you know the cake shop next to the flower shop called Jo's Tulips and Cafe Nero. If only they said Liverpool Street Station or sumsuch.

Along with checking that the Stanstead you entered into your GPS is north of the river Thames, not to the south, and is an airport or rather near. Which a co-worker did and therefore didn't get that flight they were hoping for that day.
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Davef

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #152 on: 12 May, 2021, 06:25:05 am »
I think it comes down to the human brain coping well with lots of concepts but is not very good at long sequences.

To identify a position to 3m on earth takes a 14 digit decimal number (or two 7 digit numbers if you prefer)

I am not great with 14 digit decimal numbers.

It could be worse, if we went for binary it would be fiftyish digits long, but only a vocabulary of two words “one” and “zero” needed.

The higher the base, the less digits you need. In base 40000ish you would only need a 3 word sequence to cover the trillions of locations.

Dealing with a random 3 word sequence with lots of (40000ish) choices of word seems much easier than a random 14 word sequence with only ten choices and a 50 word sequence of two options seems nigh on impossible.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #153 on: 12 May, 2021, 07:29:59 am »
But if you have a phone thst is capable of running w3w you don’t need a sequence of anything.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #154 on: 12 May, 2021, 07:33:37 am »
Here's a novel idea:  what about an app which can send your location from the smartphone where it resides direct to emergency services using whatever the national or international protocol is for where it finds itself using it's inbuilt GPS capabilities? 

The app should be easy to use:  open app, press big red "emergency" button.  App rings local emergency services and both displays (for reading) and sends (if the local emergency services are equipped for receiving this information) location data at the touch of the big green button which appears when you are connected to the local emergency services depending again upon local capabilities.

I am pretty sure that there are people and organisations who are au fait with the procedures for contacting somebody in an emergency wherever they are on the planet so just build it into a smartphone app.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #155 on: 12 May, 2021, 07:49:31 am »
Ah, but you cannot bigly monetize that!
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #156 on: 12 May, 2021, 08:08:55 am »
Not to worry, if you've had the Covid vaccine, the microchip now swishing around inside you will constantly emit a signal so your exact location will always be known. All you have to do is tell the emergency services your name and they'll know exactly where you are!
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #157 on: 12 May, 2021, 08:09:45 am »
The description of the emergency operators wanting W3W, only and not accepting other systems is appalling, but mirrors my experience some years ago.

I tried to call an ambulance to here:- https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6158,-1.475,17z

Apparently, Lat and long wasn't acceptable, nor was the fact that it was where the B585 crosses the A444. They wanted the road names, or the post code. I really don't know postcodes except for anywhere I've lived or worked, and the road signs generally point to road numbers, not names. Bosworth Road and Barton Road are far from unique, and both the A444 and B585 have multiple road names along their length.

If those in charge of the emergency services have side stepped responsibility, and sold out to W3W so that lat and long, or grid references, or Plus Codes aren't acceptable, someone should get sacked.
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Re: what 3 words
« Reply #158 on: 12 May, 2021, 08:47:11 am »
What really concerns me about this is the increasing reliance upon technology.   In 1998 I broke my leg whilst behaving like a loon in Salcey Forest.  One friend stayed with me, the other, a local who knew the layout of the forest well went to summon emergency assistance.  He was able to meet the ambulance by one of the fire road entrances and direct them straight to me.

AIUI, the emergency services in UK are trained in passing on and using all manner of available resources.  In 1998 my friend used map coordinates taken from an OS 1:50,000 supplemented by a detailed outline of the local area.   When I last had cause to call 999 I was able to give a location as the roundabout at the south end of Murray Road in Rugby and the emergency services duly arrived.   

I have been in the Lakeland Fells and the Scottish highlands and islands where a phone signal is often rare.  If I needed to report an incident I might not be able to get that w3w location* because I may need to travel a quite significant distance before acquiring a signal.  I can then tell the operator from the OS map where the incident is.

* It xoes occur to me that if w3w works using GPS as I suspect that it does then I could perhaps get the w3w location and simply screen shot the phone for use when I find a phone signal.  I could of course do the same with Google Maps or even OS Maps for os coordinates.

Davef

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #159 on: 12 May, 2021, 08:53:29 am »
You can ascertain the what 3 words location without phone signal and it is meant to be easy to remember until someone gets to a means of communication. Remembering a 14 digit number is more difficult.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #160 on: 12 May, 2021, 09:46:19 am »
Here's a novel idea:  what about an app which can send your location from the smartphone where it resides direct to emergency services using whatever the national or international protocol is for where it finds itself using it's inbuilt GPS capabilities? 

The app should be easy to use:  open app, press big red "emergency" button.  App rings local emergency services and both displays (for reading) and sends (if the local emergency services are equipped for receiving this information) location data at the touch of the big green button which appears when you are connected to the local emergency services depending again upon local capabilities.

I am pretty sure that there are people and organisations who are au fait with the procedures for contacting somebody in an emergency wherever they are on the planet so just build it into a smartphone app.

It pretty much exists.  It's what happens when you type "112" or the frimware's regional alias into the dialler, or select 'emergency call' from the lockscreen.  Emergency services calls are treated specially at a protocol level; you're not just dialling a number. AML extends that to send location data (using whatever location the device has available, not just GPS).

The handset rollout's of AML is going well, and given the half-life of a smartphone, shouldn't be a long-term problem.  The issue seems to be that most of the emergency services, at least in the UK, don't seem to be equipped to receive the AML data, possibly exacerbated by some of them buying into W3W.  I agree that displaying lat/long to the user in Big Friendly Letters would be an enhancement.

Kim

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Re: what 3 words
« Reply #161 on: 12 May, 2021, 09:59:42 am »
What really concerns me about this is the increasing reliance upon technology.

Yes.  The rot set in with an address database replacing maps.


Quote
AIUI, the emergency services in UK are trained in passing on and using all manner of available resources.  In 1998 my friend used map coordinates taken from an OS 1:50,000 supplemented by a detailed outline of the local area.   When I last had cause to call 999 I was able to give a location as the roundabout at the south end of Murray Road in Rugby and the emergency services duly arrived.   

This was my understanding too, until I had cause to summon an ambulance in the Peak District.  I described the location as "On the A$foo, 100m east of the intersection of the A$foo and the A$bar," and as a competent outdoors-person offered the operator coordinates in the format of their choosing (OSGB grid and WGS84 lat/long in either decimal degrees or DMS).  The operator duly took down the coordinates, but didn't appear to be able to use them to determine a location.  What they really wanted was a postcode.  In the end I had to walk some distance away from the scene of the incident until I saw the name of a farm, which their database was able to locate.

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #162 on: 12 May, 2021, 10:13:15 am »
I notice that cycling.forum.visit is quite close to death valley.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #163 on: 12 May, 2021, 10:15:42 am »
Not to worry, if you've had the Covid vaccine, the microchip now swishing around inside you will constantly emit a signal so your exact location will always be known. All you have to do is tell the emergency services your name and they'll know exactly where you are!
;D Bobb has solved the problem and won an internet!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #164 on: 21 May, 2021, 01:54:37 pm »
Adult version.

"I created a unique 4 swear word identifier for every 3m by 3m (approx) square in the UK & Ireland.”

Definitely not for use at work:

(click to show/hide)

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #165 on: 01 June, 2021, 06:55:45 am »
It would appear that some rescue services are not so keen.

BBC News

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #166 on: 01 June, 2021, 07:40:44 am »
It would appear that some rescue services are not so keen.

BBC News

From reading that article it shows that W3W is not perfect but it's still more realistic than expecting the average person in the street (or on the fells) to be able to use a map and compass and latitude/longitude. Notwithstanding some of the similar local W3W confusions most of the errors could have been trapped when the call was first captured. If someone is calling 999 and giving a location in Vietnam I would have hoped that a few further questions would be asked. And the errors from local accents or mispronunciation are surely less than lat/long plotting errors, misheard numbers or transposed digits.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #167 on: 01 June, 2021, 09:00:56 am »
Roll on a universal kocation method installed as a part of the OS, that sends the location to the emergency services.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #168 on: 01 June, 2021, 09:05:16 am »
It would appear that some rescue services are not so keen.

BBC News

From reading that article it shows that W3W is not perfect but it's still more realistic than expecting the average person in the street (or on the fells) to be able to use a map and compass and latitude/longitude. Notwithstanding some of the similar local W3W confusions most of the errors could have been trapped when the call was first captured. If someone is calling 999 and giving a location in Vietnam I would have hoped that a few further questions would be asked. And the errors from local accents or mispronunciation are surely less than lat/long plotting errors, misheard numbers or transposed digits.

The difference is that a slightly wrong lat-long will still be very close to the correct location.
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #169 on: 01 June, 2021, 09:19:24 am »
Roll on a universal kocation method installed as a part of the OS, that sends the location to the emergency services.
Ordnance Survey or operating system?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #170 on: 01 June, 2021, 09:21:44 am »
It would appear that some rescue services are not so keen.

BBC News

From reading that article it shows that W3W is not perfect but it's still more realistic than expecting the average person in the street (or on the fells) to be able to use a map and compass and latitude/longitude. Notwithstanding some of the similar local W3W confusions most of the errors could have been trapped when the call was first captured. If someone is calling 999 and giving a location in Vietnam I would have hoped that a few further questions would be asked. And the errors from local accents or mispronunciation are surely less than lat/long plotting errors, misheard numbers or transposed digits.

The difference is that a slightly wrong lat-long will still be very close to the correct location.

Depends on how slightly wrong you get it :-) A measurement error should be close but transposition or mishearing of digits could be more significant. But I'd still say that if the victim is inexperienced in map reading techniques and a combination of cold, wet, tired and injured W3W will produce fewer errors.

Don't get me wrong, lat-long is indisputably better but only in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. A more user friendly tool is better for the majority of people. Whether W3W is the best tool is debatable; they've just got better marketing.

Re: what 3 words
« Reply #171 on: 01 June, 2021, 09:47:45 am »
Quote
W3W said human error was "a possibility with any type of tool".

Once again, why TF are there any human steps in getting location data from a GPS-enabled smartphone to a satnav in an ambulance?

I feel like I’m going mad.

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #172 on: 01 June, 2021, 09:51:31 am »
yeah, it should be that when you dial 999/112/911 from a smart phone the location is just passed over right away.
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #173 on: 01 June, 2021, 10:02:10 am »
Exactly.
It is simpler than it looks.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: what 3 words
« Reply #174 on: 01 June, 2021, 11:48:34 am »
For the umpteenth time: The phones can already do it.  It's called AML and it's in all the recent Android and IOS builds, and doesn't require the user to do anything other than call the emergency services.  The problem is that for some reason the BRITISH emergency services haven't got the required systems at their end to receive the location.  Furthermore, some of them seem to have bought into W3W as an inferior solution to a solved problem.

(Yes, this doesn't solve the problem of locating dumbphone users.  But neither does W3W.  We still need operators who can understand map coordinates.  Older smartphones that don't have AML but can run W3W are an edge case.)