Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: frankly frankie on 26 July, 2008, 11:24:58 pm
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Garmin publish free updates to Mapsource on their website. Usually of course they're very worthwhile.
This is just a note to say the latest/current one, v6.14, is a bit problematic. Basically, its prettier, but its a lot slower. Update at your peril.
Please see my notes at
http://www.aukweb.net/services/lwg_3.htm#updater (http://www.aukweb.net/services/lwg_3.htm#updater)
for further information including workaraounds.
[edit] screenshots before/after applying 6.14 - from here it looks all good, however its very slow in use unless maybe you've got some quad-cored liquid-cooled behemoth of a computer ...
before
(http://www.aukweb.net/services/ms-old.gif)
after
(http://www.aukweb.net/services/ms-new.gif)
nb also on the post-update version the horizontal scale is slightly stretched
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Not too bad on my work laptop, which is no Deep Thought, but is fairly new.
Contours V2 doesn't work though and has to be removed from the registry before Mapsource will start.
Metrogold does work (with MG Euro9 and North America)
Other maps, like France Topo with, how can I put this, less rigorous provenance, do not work, but they didn't offer much more than MG Euro so no great loss.
Much nicer screens so it gets my vote
EDIT: Also works fine on the netbook (Advent 4211)
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I've downloaded the update.
Is it intended that you then transfer these new maps to the device?
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I've downloaded the update.
Is it intended that you then transfer these new maps to the device?
It's not maps that you're updating, but the map display and editing software.
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New maps? Isn't this just an improvement in the on-screen rendering on the PC?
*edit* beaten to it :)
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Thought so.
Like the OP, I am not sure that I like the update. I'll try it for a bit but may revert.
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If you were to revert would you have to delete all of mapsource? Then reload from your CD and reload your maps too?
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No I believe you can apply 6.13 over 6.14 and revert that way. Assuming you have the old 6.13 update file of course. NB I haven't tried this myself (I just copied my existing Mapsource.exe before updating, and then copied it back over the updated version when I knew I didn't want the update).
I think 6.13 can be downloaded here: http://www.gpsinformation.org/perry/msource/MapSource_6137.exe (http://www.gpsinformation.org/perry/msource/MapSource_6137.exe)
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I used system restore to revert, as I had completely ignored FF's advice. Now that I have done it his way, I have both versions available. While the new version is a little slower, I am starting to prefer it.
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There is just this as well ...
(http://www.aukweb.net/services/ms-round.gif)
both red circles should be, well, circular.
The smaller one is the Mapsource 'crosshair', the larger is a waypoint with a proximity setting -
just to illustrate that the horizontal scale is a teeny bit off.
Just a curiosity that's all - no big deal.
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I was running V6.11 so I thought I'd give it a go.
I can confirm that on my 4 year old lptop with a big external monitor, 6.14 runs like a crippled crab through custard with mapsource metroguide data (even worse than 6.11 with topo data). So as I write I'm downloading 6.13 using Frankies link.
All done. I like the minimap feature on 6.13 which is new to me.
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That Metrogold has been excellent. I see it survives these updates and does not even need to be re-applied.
To be honest I had not even bothered to update to 6.13 until this recent flurry of activity.
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Which Mapsource product are we talking about. Is is City Navigator, Metroguide or what. Sorry for this question but I can not find anything remotely V6.13 or 6.14.
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The update was fine on my Metroguide Europe v9.
If you download and run Garmin Updater it will find and load the updates.
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Which Mapsource product are we talking about. Is is City Navigator, Metroguide or what.
Any. If you go to 'Help' and 'About Mapsource' that dialog will display your Mapsource version number. (Provided its 6.13 or lower **) You'll probably have 6.xxx or maybe even 5.xxx. 6.137 was the last-but-one version available as a downloadable update, probably never incorporated in a DVD release. Regardless of whether or not 6.14 is felt to be 'better', 6.13 is certainly worth having.
From that dialog 'Product Info' will show the version numbers of the maps you have installed - Metroguide, City or whatever, which will be different again. I have Metroguide v8, Worldmap v4, Trip&Waypoint v2, and Contours v1.3 (nb Contours is not compatible with 6.14)
** in 6.14 that 'About Mapsource' dialog has become dumbed-down and far less informative, for some reason.
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Thanks Frankie. I will give it a go tonight.
OK, done it. It is slow. I reckon you need a superfast graphics card for it to scroll fast. However, I prefer it to the original so I will keep it for now.
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Hi there!
I'm only an infrequent cyclist, I got here via a Google link to this thread.
I use both Quest 1 and Quest 2, with Mapsource on both my home PC & work laptop.
I recently upgraded to 6.14, and thought at first it looked great. Until I tried to use it seriously when I found the following:
1) The map view isn't a 'birdseye view' any more, it's more like an equatorial satellite view. Hence the horizontal and vertical scales are different, especially towards the northern edge of the coverage area, where the vertical scale is very squashed. This is similar to the BBC1 weather forecast maps. OK for illustration to numpties who can't read a map, but totally useless for judging the layout of a land area, or for comparing route distances!
2) Zooming in and out on a view is very slow.
3) Route calculation has gone haywire! A simple route along a main road will frequently divert off into the hills then back again for no reason at all (nothing to do with routing preferences). This would be repairable, except:
4) The facility to edit a route by 'click and drag' with the mouse no longer works reliably. I spent nearly all afternoon trying to edit a route by this method, tried long clicks, short clicks, various zoom levels, etc., and all sorts but it only works about 10% of the time. This was one of the most useful and user-friendly features of the previous version, what on earth have they done?
I've tried emailing Garmin with these complaints, but all I got back was smug platitudes. >:(
I've now reverted to 6.13 using the link provided in one of the posts above - thanks for that! :)
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Resurrecting this old thread ...
The problem with the SMC Contours not working with Mapsource versions newer than 6.13, has been resolved (probably quite a long time ago, but I've only just noticed it).
Its a simple registry edit using Regedit, or the SMC's registry patch download now includes the fix.
If you drill down to find a 'folder' called
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Garmin\MapSource\Products\Contours V2
just rename it to 132 instead of Contours V2 - so -
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Garmin\MapSource\Products\132
this now works with both old and new versions of Mapsource.
Although I find 6.14 too slow on my behind-the-trailing-edge computer, it is handy to have it available as an option - for printing out sketch maps of town centres for example. I've seen a whisper that v6.15 is imminent - maybe that will fix the bug with the mismatched scales (though then again I'm not holding my breath).
[edit] I think its normal to issue warnings about backing up the registry first ...
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When I added the new city navigator 2009 it didn't like the 6.13 version and auto loaded the 6.14 version. I tried to get it to work with 6.13 but gave up - I'm a bit of a numpty with these things. I couldn't get on with 6.14 so just went back to the 6.13 and CN 2008.
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Just loaded 6.14 and agree wholeheartedly with earlier posts. It certainly looks pretty but, by GOD, is it slow!
I now find myself thinking the wrong way round - instead of reverting back to 6.13x, I'll get a new PC! SCHTOP! :hand:
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I downloaded the upgrade, but had I seen the thread I wouldn't have. My laptop's three years old and it just ground to a halt. I agree the new maps look pretty in a way, but every thing looks too chunky, and when you view it on a two inch screen, it's spindly little lines you want. I got round the problem by uninstalling everything and re-loading it from the disks.
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The scary thing is that any new adopters buying into their first Mapsource product - this is what they will get.
What a turn-off!
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I now find myself thinking the wrong way round - instead of reverting back to 6.13x, I'll get a new PC! SCHTOP! :hand:
I'm pretty new to all this stuff, but did download the update and well, blimey.....I can only reiterate.
I do agree with Wellard that the interface is much better, it has more of a google maps feel to it, but on my machine, which is only a modest athlon 2ghz, 1gig or ram thingie, there is a massive price to pay, almost to the point of the program barely running at all!!
I'm very firmly of the opinion that I will only replace a PC when I can't run the software anymore. Luckily I'm not into games [until I got a GPS that is :)], so for the most part this way of doing things doesn't cause too many headaches, but I draw the line at this one. That core2duo will have to wait a while longer. 6.13 it will have to be.
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The scary thing is that any new adopters buying into their first Mapsource product - this is what they will get.
What a turn-off!
They've probably been listening to what people in focus groups say! And the first thing you think when confronted with the City Navigator map is that it's not a "proper" map.
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(Moved from the Legend thread as it's specifically about mapsource) Thanks; what about bridleway / cyclepath cut throughs (2 quite big ones over river and harbour in Shoreham on El S's 200 already with lengthy diversions on road; can you just fly over from one road to another and restart?
and what if you plot a waypoint and it decides to take you the long way round to get there; can you delete the errant number of waypoints rather than the whole route?
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I've just got MapSource v9 through an Amazon trader, and upgraded to 6.14.1 on principle as soon as I installed it. I'm new to it, but it seems to run fine on my older XP machine. I'm wondering what I'm missing...
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You don't miss what you never had ...
The speed issue might be very graphics-card dependent - so an old machine with a really decent grahics card might be OK.
Martin - if you want to 'follow road' then you won't be able to program through bridleways if they aren't mapped. Though a few unsurfaced ways are mapped in Metroguide (and I assume City).
The simple (IMO) solution is to not use 'follow road' - use direct routing (aka 'off road' in the GPS) instead. But (unlike Bikely) you can't mix them - it might look as though you can, on the desktop, but the GPS can't do it, you have to be in one mode or the other. So to be safe, you should program in the same mode you expect to use the GPS in (even then, in 'follow road' you have to try to match the two setups).
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The only way I have found to cope with unmapped tracks and paths while still using MapSource maps and (auto) routing switched on on my Etrex units is to define the routes on my PC beforehand with sufficient waypoints to render them unambiguous and then split the routes at points where the unmapped, "unroutable" sections are.
If, for example, the second leg of a ride has an unmapped section on it, the route is split into "2a" up to the start of the section and then resumed as "2b" where the section joins mapped roads again.
I find this works fine - a routesheet (supplied or home made) fills in the small unrouted section. Most of the time, the routing is obvious and I do not have to consult the routesheet.
Pedestrian or bridleway underpasses or crossings of roads, canals and rail lines between established roads seem to be the most common "breaks". Access to services along service roads are another.
If total reliance is needed on the GPS, create a TRACK to fill in the intervening section and follow that "off road" until the on road section resumes. Track creation can be done on mapsource with a track editing tool or on one of the online utilities (bikely, etc)
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The speed issue might be very graphics-card dependent - so an old machine with a really decent grahics card might be OK.
NVidia GeForce 6200. These days I inherit my PCs when the last one we bought my son becomes too slow for gaming ;)
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If total reliance is needed on the GPS, create a TRACK to fill in the intervening section and follow that "off road" until the on road section resumes. Track creation can be done on mapsource with a track editing tool or on one of the online utilities (bikely, etc)
I agree. Track fragments to supplement Routes (eg to show an 'alternative') works really well. Colour the track in Mapsource (I use green) because the default setting is near-invisible.
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Thanks for the (over my head as I don't even have one yet :-[ but hopefully it will make more sense in due course) advice. Supposing I just use the "follow road" option and don't, using the bridleway instead; will it haunt me for the rest of the ride with the extra eg 3km I've not ridden or does it just ignore the bit I've missed out and recalculate?
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With follow road and autoroute on, it will periodically try to recalculate the route using a direct line to the closest known road as a starting point. Just ignore it until you are back on the recognised route again, at which point it will resume normal function.
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but if I'm doing say a 209km Audax and the on road route is 220km will it show the latter distance even if I've cut short the road route via non-roads? what I mean is does it take periodic readings along the route or just assume you are following the GPS track and that you've gone the road way? (the bit I'm trying to map is here; I'll be going over that bridleway bridge to get N of the A27 but mapsource insists on taking me round that spaghetti junction)
Streetmap - Homepage (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?x=519992&y=104942&z=120&sv=shoreham&st=3&tl=Map+of+Shoreham+Airport,+West+Sussex)+[Airport]&searchp=ids.srf&mapp=map.srf
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The indicated distance will be what you have actually covered.
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The indicated distance will be what you have actually covered.
so it will take a bearing on the road on one side of the river; take another after I've crossed it and work out that I've covered say 200m? that's perfect. How often do they normally take bearings?
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There is a difference between predictive routing (what the GPS recommends you do) and the recorded track (what you actually have done).
Where you actually are is recorded every few metres (depending on the length and tortuosity of the track and the number of track points allocated to tracking per track) and the distance recorded as travelled is that you actually do. I think the default setting is 5000 points per track on my unit.
The "Follow Roads" function will display your position as on a road if a road is within the error circle of the GPS. If you are outside this, you will be displayed as off road.
The "autorouting" function will try to tell you where you need to go on recognised roads to get to the next waypoint. The direct recommended route from where you are (off road) to the nearest recognised road is also constrained by physical obstacles - i.e it will not tell you to cross rivers and railway lines unless they have a recognised routes across them.
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The indicated distance will be what you have actually covered.
so it will take a bearing on the road on one side of the river; take another after I've crossed it and work out that I've covered say 200m? that's perfect. How often do they normally take bearings?
The device is constanty recalculating your position - the intervals must be in the order of seconds. You can set how often this data is recorded to the track log, which is effectively a breadcrumb trail. The options allow you to choose whether the device records a "breadcrumb" after a certain distance or after a certain interval of time. As with many things in the HCx, the best option is "auto".
(Slight aside: you need to increase the max size of the track from the default setting. If you go into "data card setup", I think I have mine at 10,000 points - or it may be 30,000, someone more expert will confirm).
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+1 to that.
Leave the track recording settings on 'auto' (unless you have a good reason not to - eg you are doing a survey) and crank the max number of track points up to the maximum available - which is 10,000 AFAIK. Why the default is set lower I can't imagine.
The GPS polls the sats about once per second - but the recorded trackpoints on 'auto' are the result of a few sat polls averaged out, ie not 1 per poll. The interval varies depending on your speed and any changes in direction.
As for 'follow road' well I don't know all the ins and outs because I rarely use it, but I have found the 'recalculate automatically' feature to be unhelpful (you can turn it off). I find that once its been invoked, all the remaining route from there to the destination is liable to be, well, not the one you programmed in, even after you've rejoined your expected route.
By switching this feature off, you can 'follow road' to your bridleway, then make your unilateral decision to divert from the route, ignoring any complaints from the goblin in the GPS because, actually, you know better - and eventually when you rejoin the known route the navigation will just pick up again. At least, that's what I've found.
But I find 'follow road' more useful in town than it is in open country - any slight miscalculation in town will only result in an insignificant detour - in country a similar miscalculation could take you a long way off-route or worse, up a spurious hill - I wouldn't trust my GPS that far.
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The distance shown on the GPS during the ride will be based on your position every second, regardless of the frequency with which you save trackpoints.
If you open the track later in Mapsource, the distance shown will be based on the saved trackpoints, and may differ from that shown at the end of the ride.
When the HCx models first came out, there was a bit of a kerfuffle on some fora because if the speed is too low, it would decide that you were stationary and stop logging distance to the displayed "distance" field (which it does so you don't log distance when sat at a pub table with a poor GPS signal). I gather that this has since been fixed.
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I habitually use "follow road" auto routing.
I rarely just set an end point - instead I set a number of intermediate points and auto-route from one to the next. With well chosen waypoints, you can get pretty much any route you want with an average of one waypoint every 10km or so. Eg for an audax where no short cuts were possible, one waypoint on each control would suffice.
You have to set the vehicle type to "car", "delivery" or "emergency" (this last would include bus lanes etc in routes), as routes calculated when set to "cycle" can include big detours to avoid small sections of larger roads.
For off road sections (eg canal towpath), I set a waypoint at the point where I leave the road, and another shortly after leaving the off-road. I then just ignore the occasional beeps as it tries to recalculate or direct you off at intermediate road contacts until the distance to the next waypoint is correct.
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v 6.15.3 is now available on Garmin's download page.
It does seem to me to be a bit faster than 6.14, though still not as quick as 6.13 (downside of prettier maps). 1 or 2 minor bells and whistles - ability to reduce size of map icons is good. Still works OK with OSM maps. The horizontal scale problem is still there - it's just a different choice of map projection AFAIK, but does us no favours this far north.
I'm happy to have both 6.13 and 6.15 installed.
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v 6.15.3 is now available on Garmin's download page.
As Frankie, a mite quicker and even prettier too. Getting better....
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having finally got the Garmin maps viewable on my Vista; I assume this update is only viewable on the PC and you still get the spidery version on the little screen (although the selected route and turns when in Navigate mode are fine as they are)
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Update doesn't affect what you see on the device Martin.
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Update doesn't affect what you see on the device Martin.
Thanks :)
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I'm using the update found using that link; looks 10 times better and doesn't seem to slow up my pooter at all :)
(http://www.fotothing.com/photos/120/12075d656c9a9f48655c6c2256390750.jpg?ts=1239616342)
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Just upgraded to 6.15.4 which looks like another incremental improvement.
One thing I have noticed though is that all the POI seem to have disappeared from the mapsource display! They are still there - I can search for a POI but they are not shown by default and I cannot find an option to enable/disable display. Alas I cannot remember is whether it has been like this since I upgraded to the 'new' version or whether the problem occured when I had a play with the POI loader for DIY POI sets. Any ideas?
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6.15.6 now available. I've upgraded to it - can't say I've noticed any performance gain. Looks like it's mostly focused on bug fixing tbh.
Re POIs - they only appear when the map detail is set to Higher or Highest. Believe this was the same for 6.15.4.
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Re POIs - they only appear when the map detail is set to Higher or Highest . Believe this was the same for 6.15.4.
Thats correct and also you need to be viewing at 500m or lower but wasn't the problem. The magic switch is preferences/display/services to be set to on or auto. Why the switch wasn't called 'POI' Gawd Only Knows.
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Now 6.15.7 - I don't notice any difference (from 6.15.4) and NB the 'Save as GPX' bug is not fixed (though Garmin have known about it for months).
I still use a parallel install of 6.13.7 for preference.
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The latest version 6.16.n is stated to require Win XP SP3 or later. That's me kicked off the upgrade path then.
6.16.0.3 beta (http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=4879)
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Been trying to upgrade recently to latest version (as it was yesterday 6.16.11 I think). It gets all the way through the actual download and then throws a 'communication error'. Anyone seen that before?
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I upgraded last week to 6.15.11 for my nuvi 1490. Took an age to download but now running fine on a desktop with Win7/32, a laptop with Win7/64 and a netbook with XP/SP3. Just checked for updates and non available. The Win7/32 runs in compatability mode while the Win7/64 just runs. Not seen a 6.16.n for my unit.
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I upgraded last week to 6.15.11 for my nuvi 1490. Took an age to download but now running fine on a desktop with Win7/32, a laptop with Win7/64 and a netbook with XP/SP3. Just checked for updates and non available. The Win7/32 runs in compatability mode while the Win7/64 just runs. Not seen a 6.16.n for my unit.
Actually, yes, I meant 6.15.11. I;ve not seen 6.16.n either. I wonder if I should reinstall....
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6.16 is currently just a beta version. It won't be available on the "Check for updates" in Mapsource until it is released properly.
But you can download it from Garmin's website and install it if you want.
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I was riding with another Garmin owner on Saturday and couldn't help noting how much more snazzy his City Navigator (bought as an SD card) looked than my spidery version;
I downloaded the update for my pooter a while ago and it looks much better, is there a way of updating the display on an eTrex to look like the new ones?
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an obvious to some question but how do I actually use the Waypoint tool in MS?
I've just created another route using the Route Tool (for the Dun Run) as it would not import the one off Bikely, and it's got lots of little flags it calls waypoints. However when I transfer it to the device it greys out everything except Routes.
When I open the route on the device and get it to navigate it thinks about it for a long time; and eventually opens to show no waypoints; only via points. And first time I tried it it tried to take me straight to Dunwich via the A12 etc as it had no waypoints to force it on route.
If I use the waypoint tool on MS can I then easily create a route from it, either on the pc or the device?
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I use the waypoint tool a lot: just select your waypoints (and in properties then give them a number and useful label - must be numbered in order), then at the end, in the box on the left, select all waypoints then right -click to create route using these waypoints.
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When I open the route on the device and get it to navigate it thinks about it for a long time...
I noticed that your eTrex seemd to take a long time to calculate routes. IIRC you have most of Europe loaded onto your card. Assuming youre not planning a euopean tour next week, might be worthwise disabling the maptiles outside the UK or even UK SE (see setup/maps I think). I'd have tried this myself whilst I had the eTrex but I forgot.
Creating a route with waypoints on the GPS really is hassle to far, ISTM. Forget about it.
Check out the route on the PC to make sure it has all the route/waypoints you expect. If you cannot see them on the PC they will not magically appear when you download the route to the GPS.
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on the Dun Run there were no blue flags shown on the device but it did keep popping up with the viapoints as I approached them but didn't call them anything other than the location; which was often slightly off route; is this a location thing? ie the gps is slightly out?
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on the Dun Run there were no blue flags shown on the device but it did keep popping up with the viapoints as I approached them but didn't call them anything other than the location; which was often slightly off route; is this a location thing? ie the gps is slightly out?
More likely the placement of the viapoints is slightly out. Easily done. Zooming into the viapoints placement on mapsource to check.
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another question; on bikely one can simply "jump over" bits of the route that aren't roads (eg cyclepaths / ferries over rivers etc) by unticking Auto Follow the Road whilst in mid air;
is there an easy way to do this using Route Tool on Mapsource? I found it impossible to get an accurate distance measurent of most of my Holland rides because of this
(I know it's possible because Manotea took us on the official cyclepath route for a perm; but he may just have put the waypoints on it and ignored the road route)
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I know it's possible because Manotea took us on the official cyclepath route for a perm; but he may just have put the waypoints on it and ignored the road route
Got it in one. I use differently coloured waypoint flags to mark the start/end of the off road section and additional flags not included in the route to show the way across no-bike-land and ignore the round the houses follow road route generated by the GPS. If you are following a track or using direct routing then you don't have to worry about this, of course. As usual, YPYPATYC.
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another question; on bikely one can simply "jump over" bits of the route that aren't roads (eg cyclepaths / ferries over rivers etc) by unticking Auto Follow the Road whilst in mid air;
is there an easy way to do this using Route Tool on Mapsource? I found it impossible to get an accurate distance measurent of most of my Holland rides because of this
You can go to Edit menu -> Preferences -> Routing tab, and choose the "Use Direct Routes" option. Then draw in the off road part of the route. Then set it back to use Auto Routing, and draw the rest of the route.
You just have to make sure you don't recalculate the route later, because it will recalculate the whole thing, including the off-road sections. It may be easier to plot it as separate routes for the on and off road sections, and add up the distance manually.
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another question; on bikely one can simply "jump over" bits of the route that aren't roads (eg cyclepaths / ferries over rivers etc) by unticking Auto Follow the Road whilst in mid air;
is there an easy way to do this using Route Tool on Mapsource? I found it impossible to get an accurate distance measurent of most of my Holland rides because of this
You can go to Edit menu -> Preferences -> Routing tab, and choose the "Use Direct Routes" option. Then draw in the off road part of the route. Then set it back to use Auto Routing, and draw the rest of the route.
thanks :) as always yacf is a lot more useful than Garmin's own manual
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I never tried this as I assumed (...) the navigate/calculate route process on the GPS would overide the direct routing segment of the route, but apparently not!
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I never tried this as I assumed (...) the navigate/calculate route process on the GPS would overide the direct routing segment of the route, but apparently not!
Yes, the GPS will always recalculate the whole route when you navigate it (if you have autorouting switched on), the Mapsource settings don't affect this.
But still, this Mapsource option is useful if you want to check route distances etc by plotting it on your PC beforehand.
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I never tried this as I assumed (...) the navigate/calculate route process on the GPS would overide the direct routing segment of the route, but apparently not!
Yes, the GPS will always recalculate the whole route when you navigate it (if you have autorouting switched on), the Mapsource settings don't affect this.
But still, this Mapsource option is useful if you want to check route distances etc by plotting it on your PC beforehand.
I use WINGDB3 to generate a track and then edit the track to knock out the 'round the houses' trackpoints using Mapsource (track/properties), so the track goes directly between the two off route markers, then load both route and track to the eTrex. The track is static so unaffected by the follow road navigation on the GPS. One could generate a more exact track following a complex off-road route - following cycle paths, whatever - using Fuaran's approach.
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What is the latest mapsource for use with a garmin quest.