Author Topic: Edge 705 Questions  (Read 4217 times)

Edge 705 Questions
« on: 25 March, 2011, 12:53:45 pm »
I recently bought an edge 705, read all the threads and thought I had it nailed...then did my first ride  :(

I had plotted the route on Bikehike and downloaded it both as a GPXX to 'courses' and as a tcx. to 'training'. I started the ride having loaded the GPXX. However 40 minutes into the ride it started telling me to do a U turn even though I was still on the pink line on the map and I knew I was on the correct route (going over Old Winchester Hill). I could not get it to stop telling me to turn around, so changed to the training route and followed that instead.

What settings do you recommend I should have so that I can plot a route, download it to the gps and then follow it around the map, with or without prompts?

I thought I read on one of the threads that someone has the underlying route as a blue line and the GPXX over the top? Is that possible and if so how?

Should I have routing on or off? following roads or off road? In fact an idiots guide to suggested settings would be helpful...

Sorry for all the questions
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Biggsy

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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #1 on: 25 March, 2011, 12:57:34 pm »
I can't fully answer all that.  But my general tip is to break up the route into multiple separate routes, then the GPX won't try to be too clever by finding so many short cuts.
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Jaded

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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #2 on: 25 March, 2011, 01:03:02 pm »
Turn Recalculate off, or at least put it on Ask.

I've used gpxx files from bikehike for 200km rides, no problems with U turns
It is simpler than it looks.

frankly frankie

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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #3 on: 25 March, 2011, 03:48:27 pm »
+1 to recalculate off, or prompted.

I thought I read on one of the threads that someone has the underlying route as a blue line and the GPXX over the top? Is that possible and if so how?

Not an Edge user but AFAIK you can't display more than one Route** at a time.  You can however display more than one Track, with or without a Route as well.
Therefore to get the effect you describe, the blue line (personally I would use green) has to be a Track.  Then you can display your GPXX (which I take to be a Route) as well, and get the prompts that it generates.

Like this - in this example (Etrex, not an Edge NB) the Track is green and the autorouting Route (which is about to go the wrong way) is white.

see more here


** it seems to me some confusion arises because "to follow a route" (ie, a route in general terms, the way you want to go) is distinct from "to follow a Route" (my capital, to indicate something you'd find in the Garmin 'Routes' menu) or "to follow a Track" (my capital, to indicate something you'd find in the Garmin 'Tracks' menu, and not just any old bit of unmade road ...).  Some clarity is needed (though it's no-one's fault but Garmin's).
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #4 on: 25 March, 2011, 04:00:47 pm »
New Edge 800 user here, so this may not be perfect, but....

Don't rely on the maps from google, garmin, osm, etc having the same roads on them. If you've got autorouting on it can cause no end of problems. None of them appear to be perfrect, I've already got the Garmin City and OSM sets on my 800 and have to switch between them depending on route. (Though thankfully I can then got to OSM and fix the shonky junctions for later use)

Also sites like bikehike and bikeroute toaster don't always put the gpx points in useful places for routing, so you can end up going round a roundabout 10 times before exiting or missing a junction and causing a U turn in the route. The answer appears to be to go into Basecamp and fix any stupidity by deleting extraneous track points and then recalculating the route each time.

That said I've yet to get a 100% useful course. But I've only been trying a fortnight. Hopefully the one I've just done to cross town to the library will be the one that nails it  :D

frankly frankie

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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #5 on: 25 March, 2011, 05:56:17 pm »
If you've got autorouting on it can cause no end of problems.

Says it all, IMHO.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #6 on: 28 March, 2011, 11:08:56 am »
This isn't perfect, but it's got me round various Audaxes so far with only a few problems (see below):-

Plot route on bikehike, do a separate plot per loop if there are multiple loops.

If it's not too much trouble you can split up the loops into out and back sections, but you shouldn't need to if all goes well.

For each loop:-

1. Download as 'gpx track' as a file such as 'blah_1.gpx'
2. Download as 'gpxx route' as a file such as 'blah_1_r.gpx'

Copy all files to the GPS in the Garmin\Courses folder.

You now want to set the track to display on the map (but don't use it for navigating), i.e.
* Where To? -> Saved Rides -> blah_1.gpx -> Map Setup -> Make sure 'Show on Map' is checked and change colour to blue or green (which work well against the City Navigator maps).

Then you want to use the route to navigate against:-
* Where To? -> Saved Rides -> blah_1_r.gpx -> Navigate

I have my routing set to:

Calculate Routes For: Bicycle
Guidance Method: Follow Road
Recalculate: Off

Don't have either of the checkboxes for avoiding unpaved roads or major streets checked.

All of this works for the Edge 705 because the GPXX route has many many points (thousands even for a 200) and all of them are used for navigation, this ties the navigable route down to exactly where you want to go, the GPS can't easily take you on big detours even though it's using 'Bicycle' routing which likes to keep you off major roads. 'Bicycle' routing still allows it to navigate you down places where only bicycles can go.

The only time this will disagree is things like the 'right through hedge' or 'dismount and straight on over weir' type instructions.

I keep the GPS on the map page so I can make sure that the thick pink line is tracking against the expected track (in red or green).

I've never had a problem with it trying to make me do a U-turn, despite plotting each loop in full. But for long rides that don't visit a central HQ each time I'll be splitting the route up into 2. Just make sure you split it at a control that you don't want to bounce, the route calculation will take a few minutes or so when you decide to navigate against the new route and you can't see the map screen whilst it's doing this.

However, I've still had problems with this. On the 'Uts 200 the maps just disappeared in the middle of one loop, and with the maps went the routing. But I still had the track displayed, so I could zoom in and work out where I needed to go based on what the track looked like (even though there were no junctions). Turning it off and back on again at the next control fixed it and I was fine for the final loop.

It also failed to give me the appropriate instructions at many junctions (mainly turning right off a main road to a minor road), which is why it's very important to keep an eye on the map screen as you can't really assume that the absence of an instruction means continue straight along the current road.

These instructions are quite different from what other GPSes may use (like the eTrex Legend/Vista). The main difference is that the Edge 705 (and 800) can take this new GPXX format that allows you to have thousands of points in a route. This takes away the risk that the GPS will decide to take a very different route between two points than you want to, because each point is just another 80-100 yards down the road from the previous one.

I've not found a good way of implementing the 'sparse route' of one routepoint per routesheet instruction and having it tell me what I want it to tell me when I want it to tell me something. Still working on this...

Definitely try it out before you do your next Audax. I play around with the settings on mine and using my 12km commute as a guinea pig.
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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #7 on: 28 March, 2011, 11:17:20 am »
i'm so glad it's not just me who has these problems.. I've tried loads of different ways of getting it to see sense, none have really worked yet.  Best so far is to use Bike Route Toaster instead of bikehike and make sure I use plenty of course points as well as route points. they seem to be regarded as 'compulsory' by the machine, so putting them at extreme points of a loop seems to work.

Apart from the last 10 miles of yesterdays ride when i had a very nice diversion, and having to switch it off and on again 2 or 3 times (turning it back on then re-opening and 'navigating' the route seems to kick it out of asking me to do a u-turn)

will keep experimenting!


Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #8 on: 28 March, 2011, 11:29:54 am »
Are you sure it wasn't a plotting error?

Use bikehike. Download as gpxx route. Recalculate set to ask, as it gives a nice audible warning (always choose 'no' if prompted). Keep it on the map page with track up (ie the arrow is in the centre of the screen pointing up).

I've stopped splitting routes that doubleback on themselves as the unit seems to cope with it

frankly frankie

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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #9 on: 28 March, 2011, 12:24:55 pm »
... having to switch it off and on again 2 or 3 times (turning it back on then re-opening and 'navigating' the route seems to kick it out of asking me to do a u-turn)

That does sound as though it's done a recalculate without asking you.  Recalculating is not good.  Once it has recalculated, the only way to get the route to work again properly is to 'stop navigating' and reload it (as you've found).  Even doing a manual 'recalculate' won't work properly - reload is the only way.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #10 on: 28 March, 2011, 10:47:14 pm »
Been using the Edge 705 for two and a half years and after initial teething problems had no problems using week after week on audaxes.  Can't believe how complicated it made to sound.  I just create route in BikeHike or Bike route toaster, download to Garmin as TCX file.  I don't put any turns or things in as this just seems to add confusion.  I just then follow the pink line on the map as I ride.  When  come up to a town or more built up area I quickly zoom in a couple of notches and then zoom out as I leave the town. I have all the autoroute malarky turned off (I'm not in the car so why use it).  I sometimes miss a turn but usually by twenty feet I've heard and noticed that I'm off the pink line.  Never had a problem on the route apart from route where there is a lot of crossing.  I then get the paper route sheet out for a second to check i I'm not sure! 
If you want a dummies guide, google Frank Kinlan's blog and you'll find every question answered there.

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #11 on: 28 March, 2011, 11:36:47 pm »
I have got round all these issues very effectively on my Edge 705 by always using courses (tcx). I create my file on bikehike, download it as a tcx straight to device, then on the ride select 'training' > 'courses' >the name of the course I made. The Garmin makes no attempt to recalculate anything when riding a course. It will bleep and warn me of I go off route, but not mess up the journey I have planned. I can plot a 200k Audax all in one file this way without problems. There is a limit to the number of coursepoints the 705 can handle so I suspect I might start splitting the ride into 2 files once I am riding the 300k and 400k's.

Jaded

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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #12 on: 28 March, 2011, 11:44:40 pm »
What UK does.

This gives turn by turn warnings too.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #13 on: 28 March, 2011, 11:50:16 pm »
This is am example of the type of tcx file I create for a 200k audax, with most major turnings marked and all controls and info's:
 http://www.laraday.co.uk/bikeroutes/BBB3.tcx

If you upload this file into bikehike or your device you should see it in all it's glory. The only time I have got lost using the Garmin is when following a gpxx or gpx! This may of course be down to my own ineptitude!

Jaded

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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #14 on: 28 March, 2011, 11:55:22 pm »
 ;)



 ;D
It is simpler than it looks.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #15 on: 29 March, 2011, 06:41:30 am »
This is am example of the type of tcx file I create for a 200k audax, with most major turnings marked and all controls and info's:
 http://www.laraday.co.uk/bikeroutes/BBB3.tcx

If you upload this file into bikehike or your device you should see it in all it's glory. The only time I have got lost using the Garmin is when following a gpxx or gpx! This may of course be down to my own ineptitude!

How did you define the course points with graphic?

Is there not an overall (gps) limit of 100 defined course points?

 

GrahamG

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Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #16 on: 29 March, 2011, 08:22:19 am »
Are you sure it wasn't a plotting error?

Use bikehike. Download as gpxx route. Recalculate set to ask, as it gives a nice audible warning (always choose 'no' if prompted). Keep it on the map page with track up (ie the arrow is in the centre of the screen pointing up).

I've stopped splitting routes that doubleback on themselves as the unit seems to cope with it

This is all I do - so simple, it's great. Although I don't even bother using the map screen unless I appear to have gone wrong or I'm in an urban area and want the constant visual reference. I couldn't believe how simple it was when I first tried it, actually second tried it - hadn't turned off the recalculate option on the first run ;). The only drawback is that sometimes a fork or turn doesn't get a warning, presumably due to OSM not having information on priority at junctions, but that is easily noticed when you go wrong as the 'distance to next' starts going up and you can just double check the map.

With a 10 minute session on bikehike to plot the route using gpxx, I've just done my first ever audax WITHOUT A WRONG TURN!!
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #17 on: 29 March, 2011, 02:25:57 pm »
This is am example of the type of tcx file I create for a 200k audax, with most major turnings marked and all controls and info's:
 http://www.laraday.co.uk/bikeroutes/BBB3.tcx

If you upload this file into bikehike or your device you should see it in all it's glory. The only time I have got lost using the Garmin is when following a gpxx or gpx! This may of course be down to my own ineptitude!

How did you define the course points with graphic?

Is there not an overall (gps) limit of 100 defined course points?

 

I manually add all my coursepoints in bikehike. Bikehike warns you when you have more than 100, so on a 200k if I get that warning I tend to just go through and delete some really unnecessary ones (like 'straight on' for example, since I can see on the screen its a straight on without needing a bleep and picture to tell me this).
The little flags are added as 'generic' instructions that you can then type something like 'INFO CONT' into, or the same of the cafe or pub. There is a character limit so you have to abbreviate the names a bit.

You can also reduce the number of coursepoints nicely when there is one of those 'turn L and immediately R' type routesheet instructions. Instead of marking the L turn and R turn as 2 turns, I just add a single 'generic' course point for the first one and write 'L THEN R' into it. This is actually a more useful warning to get on the day anyway!

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #18 on: 29 March, 2011, 05:24:46 pm »
I found it difficult to understand how the designers envisaged course points being used, as an overall limit of 100 cp's meant that it isn't really practical to waymark routes in the way you have (or rather, you could only only have one waymarked course loaded in the system at any one time, and given the way Training Centre seems to insist on syncing Edge and Workstation datababases's, that doesn't seem to be what was intended either) so my take was that they must have intended them to be used for control points only. My practice was to design routes in mapsource and then use wingdb3 to convert the route into a course but in the process I lost all the waypoints so had to (re)define those which I wanted within Training Centre manually as course points. Life really was too short.  It may be the limit has gone away with the Edge 800 or newer route design products circumvent the limitation using the mysterious GPXX coding (comments?).

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #19 on: 29 March, 2011, 05:37:42 pm »
I found it difficult to understand how the designers envisaged course points being used, as an overall limit of 100 cp's meant that it isn't really practical to waymark routes in the way you have (or rather, you could only only have one waymarked course loaded in the system at any one time, and given the way Training Centre seems to insist on syncing Edge and Workstation datababases's, that doesn't seem to be what was intended either) so my take was that they must have intended them to be used for control points only. My practice was to design routes in mapsource and then use wingdb3 to convert the route into a course but in the process I lost all the waypoints so had to (re)define those which I wanted within Training Centre manually as course points. Life really was too short.  It may be the limit has gone away with the Edge 800 or newer route design products circumvent the limitation using the mysterious GPXX coding (comments?).

My Edge has dozens of courses stored in it, each of which have their own 100 course points. I only ever use course points and never waypoints.
It takes me about half an hour using either bikeroutetoaster or bikehike to create a .tcx course for an Audax, then the site downloads it direct to my device.

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #20 on: 29 March, 2011, 10:02:46 pm »


My Edge has dozens of courses stored in it, each of which have their own 100 course points. I only ever use course points and never waypoints.
It takes me about half an hour using either bikeroutetoaster or bikehike to create a .tcx course for an Audax, then the site downloads it direct to my device.
[/quote]

Agreed.  :thumbsup:

To be honest I don't know the difference between course points and way points so I keep it simple and just follow the pink line.  Using bike hike I can add (?) course points (?) which advise me of info controls. I always use tcx files.

Re: Edge 705 Questions
« Reply #21 on: 10 April, 2011, 08:09:58 pm »
I wanted to overcome the battery limit of 15 hours particularly for those longer Audaxes so I bought a Gomadic power supply and plugged it in, switched it on and off I went. I was horrified last night when I go to 15 hours that it complained of low battery power and switched off. I thought I was using my external power source so why did this happen?
O'LEL what have I done!