Author Topic: Mille du Sud 2016  (Read 16490 times)

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Mille du Sud 2016
« on: 06 January, 2016, 12:42:30 pm »
The route for the Mille du Sud 2016 is up. 

https://sites.google.com/site/le1000dusud/parcours-route

A small matter of the Galibier half way round  ;D.  That's sold it for me. 
Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 182 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  114 (nautical miles)

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #1 on: 06 January, 2016, 04:23:26 pm »
thanks that looks fantastic, I'd love to do this  :thumbsup:

Nelson Longflap

  • Riding a bike is meant to be easy ...
Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #2 on: 06 January, 2016, 04:57:50 pm »
Thanks CET ... this one has been on my to-do list for two or three years now. I might not be on a conveniently close part of the planet on the relevant dates so will need some careful calendar management in the meantime.  ???
The worst thing you can do for your health is NOT ride a bike

mattc

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #3 on: 06 January, 2016, 05:31:52 pm »
It appears to be "PBP style" regs; so no Helmet Rule, and flashing rear lights prohibited :)

(but why allow flashing fronts? translation error? Oh well. )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #4 on: 06 January, 2016, 06:21:27 pm »
(but why allow flashing fronts? translation error? Oh well. )

presumably because a flashing front light would not bother any other riders, whereas lines of flashing rear lights in front can be really annoying and possibly hypnotic

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #5 on: 06 January, 2016, 07:17:10 pm »
Also because France is a civilised country where flashing lights are against the law

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #6 on: 06 January, 2016, 09:38:12 pm »
Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 182 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  114 (nautical miles)

LMT

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #7 on: 06 January, 2016, 10:20:10 pm »
Tempting, you could make a proper cycling holiday of it.

Drive through France on the Saturday getting to Bedouin in the evening.

As a warm up, cycle up Mont Ventoux the next day and then head over to Carces in the evening, have a couple of days off (perhaps exploring Nice) and then do the ride. Can't go wrong for 30 euros plus paypal fee.

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #8 on: 06 January, 2016, 11:04:21 pm »
...Been thinking about this since riding Le Douze Cents 1200 nearly 4 years ago (and that one on this year again too!) - Oh, decisions, decisions... And one could comfortably ride both!

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #9 on: 08 January, 2016, 09:26:48 am »
The route for the Mille du Sud 2016 is up. 

https://sites.google.com/site/le1000dusud/parcours-route

A small matter of the Galibier half way round  ;D.  That's sold it for me.

I am in.... lovely route too.... However I'll probably get down there of my own accord. I wouldn't want to hold you up and plus I might nip across to Mont Ventoux for a quick blast up Bedouin before/after the 1000km ride.

Tempting, you could make a proper cycling holiday of it.

Drive through France on the Saturday getting to Bedouin in the evening.

As a warm up, cycle up Mont Ventoux the next day and then head over to Carces in the evening, have a couple of days off (perhaps exploring Nice) and then do the ride. Can't go wrong for 30 euros plus paypal fee.

This is perfect. I have an itch to climb Mont Ventoux again and also I love Galibier. So two mountains with one stone!

mattc

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #10 on: 08 January, 2016, 08:05:12 pm »
I need to make an estimate of where this ride sits between
very very tough,  and
totally impossible in 75 hours.

A big factor will be the facilities en-route. I had a little experience of audax in remote areas on the 2014 Scottish 1300; this will be much harder terrain, leaving much less time margin for all the non-riding aspects. Worse, I have very limited "feel" for the region; Scotland I knew a bit about, and could research quite effectively.
Are there any discussions of the route en francais? Or other information sources?

( Previous ride reports mention the secret controls being great food/water depots. I'm thinking this is almost useless info in terms of planning! )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #11 on: 08 January, 2016, 10:32:10 pm »
Let me know when you have done this.

Pi mal Daumen if you are not PBP < 70h this ride would probably be hors delay if you are lucky enough to finish it. Or am I too sceptical?

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #12 on: 09 January, 2016, 06:51:09 am »
The ride I'm benchmarking this against (for riding times) is the Mille Alba in 2012, which was 1000km and 12750m ascent.  The big difference is that on the Mille Alba you could return to the same bunk bed each night.  So if you benchmark yourself with someone who got round that (just) then my guess is that you'd finish hors delais.   If you benchmark yourself with someone who got round that relatively easily then you should be able to finish in the time limit.

Having driven from Briancon to Malucene in 2014 on a "main" road, I would expect facilities to be few and far between so there will be more faffing time for restocking "bonk" rations.  Also, the Galibier could take a lot out of you, when I did it in 2014 the altitude got to me and I expect it will do so even more with 500km under the belt.
Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 182 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  114 (nautical miles)

Angstbremser

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #13 on: 09 January, 2016, 09:36:17 pm »
If it's any help to anyone, I did this ride in 2013 when it had more than 17000 metres of climbing. From past experience I would judge that the likes of CET should have no problem at all getting round within the time limit. That being said I would add that getting round within the time limit is not that important after all, since even though the finish control officially closes 11am Saturday it is usually kept open until Sunday noon or even longer if you give Sophie a call.

Getting food along the route can really be a problem even during weekday business hours and experienced MdS riders regularly make use of booking.com based on educated guesses on their estimated progress.

And I still think that Alpine descents are not to be taken lightly in the dark.

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #14 on: 09 January, 2016, 10:47:09 pm »
And I still think that Alpine descents are not to be taken lightly in the dark.

IMO, I would say day or night!  Even in the daytime the descents can catch you out if you are not careful.  At night, where perception is markedly different they can be very challenging.

Ben T

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #15 on: 09 January, 2016, 11:10:50 pm »
I need to make an estimate of where this ride sits between
very very tough,  and
totally impossible in 75 hours.

A big factor will be the facilities en-route. I had a little experience of audax in remote areas on the 2014 Scottish 1300; this will be much harder terrain, leaving much less time margin for all the non-riding aspects. Worse, I have very limited "feel" for the region; Scotland I knew a bit about, and could research quite effectively.
Are there any discussions of the route en francais? Or other information sources?

( Previous ride reports mention the secret controls being great food/water depots. I'm thinking this is almost useless info in terms of planning! )
Nowhere near totally impossible in 75 hours.
I did it in 2012 in 74.5 with half an hour to spare but I "lost" at least 7 hours (and spent at least 8 in a hotel but that was intentional).
Would have been sub 70 easily if I'd not lost time in the last night.
You were similar paced to me to durness, I was probably slower then than in 2012 but not massively so.

The main precaution you need to take with the remoteness is stock up on food for the night in afternoon/evening, best do it sooner rather than later. There is nothing open at night, can be pizza places open in the evening but once you've got rations to keep you going all night you can then stop worrying about it.



The ideal hotel point would have been about 650km in 2012 (I stopped at about 600km on the dot and got there about half 8pm IIRC) so if was booking might go for a bit less than 600km what with the galibier...
The picture of the galibier looks terrifying. Hopefully the bit with the sheer drop on the right is wider than it looks!? Never used to like sections like that when I used to do MTBing.

Not decided yet if i'm going to do it again but (and personal preference obviously, but ) I wouldn't dream of driving all the way there...I once drove to provence and even with sharing it with 2 others doing 3 hour "shifts" behind the wheel it was bloody tiring.

Ben T

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #16 on: 09 January, 2016, 11:25:28 pm »
( Previous ride reports mention the secret controls being great food/water depots. I'm thinking this is almost useless info in terms of planning! )
basically cake + tea/orange squash, nothing that substantial, but nice nonetheless

mattc

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #17 on: 10 January, 2016, 08:35:44 am »
The ideal hotel point would have been about 650km in 2012 (I stopped at about 600km on the dot and got there about half 8pm IIRC) so if was booking might go for a bit less than 600km what with the galibier...
The picture of the galibier looks terrifying. Hopefully the bit with the sheer drop on the right is wider than it looks!? Never used to like sections like that when I used to do MTBing.

that's pretty much what I've decided. But sadly the G really screws schedules up;its about 540km, and sunset/rise 8pm/7am.
I think if you dont get over the thing in daylight (which will be tough), you will lose a shit-load of time on the descent, which just sounds no fun at all. 600km in 36h in that terrain is ... challenging!

I think that photo foreshortens the ramp. IIRC there are no scary steep bits on either side,  just lots of 8-10%.
(I also suspect we can cut through the tunnel near the top :P )

@CET:
I did this climb around lunchtime without any ill-effects - it just took a verrrrrrrry long time!

Re: Ventoux
I've noticed you'd pretty much skirts the NE-slopes on the first day of this event. Tigasefi could make a small scenic detour!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #18 on: 10 January, 2016, 01:50:23 pm »
This is very tempting. I put the route on RWGPS (I am less familiar with what ascent figures mean on Openrunner), and that website estimates about 17,000m ascent. However, I think it would still not be as hard as Mile Cymru. The combination of the Chartreuse before the Galibier does add to the difficulty (about 10,000m ascent in 540km), but once over the top Le Bourg d'Oisans is only an hour away and the descent from the Lauteret is a relatively major (for alpine passes) road.

Ben T's advice is very good; during the day there will be many places to pick up brioche, croissants, the ubiquitous 'le sandwich' or whatever you preference may be (I've done this on previous 1000km in France). If I ride this I will take a bivvy bag with me - a perfect ride for it I reckon.

Ben T

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #19 on: 10 January, 2016, 03:14:42 pm »
This is very tempting. I put the route on RWGPS (I am less familiar with what ascent figures mean on Openrunner), and that website estimates about 17,000m ascent. However, I think it would still not be as hard as Mile Cymru. The combination of the Chartreuse before the Galibier does add to the difficulty (about 10,000m ascent in 540km), but once over the top Le Bourg d'Oisans is only an hour away and the descent from the Lauteret is a relatively major (for alpine passes) road.

Ben T's advice is very good; during the day there will be many places to pick up brioche, croissants, the ubiquitous 'le sandwich' or whatever you preference may be (I've done this on previous 1000km in France). If I ride this I will take a bivvy bag with me - a perfect ride for it I reckon.

Advice if you are bivvying - apparently in some areas there are wild boars roaming around. I'm told they aren't particularly outright dangerous, and they are too timid to approach a large group of people or that are making noise/moving around, but if you are on your own and silent/still they might come sniffing around, curious as to what you're doing/what you are. You probably won't be eaten but you might be shocked if you wake up to find one snuffling about your bivvy bag.

zigzag

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #20 on: 10 January, 2016, 09:31:22 pm »
Advice if you are bivvying - apparently in some areas there are wild boars roaming around. I'm told they aren't particularly outright dangerous, and they are too timid to approach a large group of people or that are making noise/moving around, but if you are on your own and silent/still they might come sniffing around, curious as to what you're doing/what you are. You probably won't be eaten but you might be shocked if you wake up to find one snuffling about your bivvy bag.

had a curious wild boar nearby when i slept in a survival blanket in austria during the tcr. they aren't dangerous (if you don't apporach their cubs), but the loud(ish) breathing and sound of a large animal near you can feel uncomfortable. :)

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #21 on: 11 January, 2016, 12:22:47 pm »
The ideal hotel point would have been about 650km in 2012 (I stopped at about 600km on the dot and got there about half 8pm IIRC) so if was booking might go for a bit less than 600km what with the galibier...
The picture of the galibier looks terrifying. Hopefully the bit with the sheer drop on the right is wider than it looks!? Never used to like sections like that when I used to do MTBing.

that's pretty much what I've decided. But sadly the G really screws schedules up;its about 540km, and sunset/rise 8pm/7am.
I think if you dont get over the thing in daylight (which will be tough), you will lose a shit-load of time on the descent, which just sounds no fun at all. 600km in 36h in that terrain is ... challenging!

I think that photo foreshortens the ramp. IIRC there are no scary steep bits on either side,  just lots of 8-10%.
(I also suspect we can cut through the tunnel near the top :P )

@CET:
I did this climb around lunchtime without any ill-effects - it just took a verrrrrrrry long time!

Re: Ventoux
I've noticed you'd pretty much skirts the NE-slopes on the first day of this event. Tigasefi could make a small scenic detour!

F**KING LOL!!  :P Detour to Mont Ventoux and do Bedoin as well as Galibier in the same ride..... Are you MAD! I have given up on finishing at 11am. No way I can do that time but I am happy to finish on the day we are supposed to finish so that'll do me.

hmmm....

detour to Mont Ventoux you say.......

I am 99% sure to be in. I wouldn't mind company either as I am not a particularly energetic rider but hoping to do 300/280/300/120 schedule. 

Lately I have been riding in France extensively and food is huge problem. they really don't like opening their shops other in the mornings/evenings :|

Also tempting to drive to Cannes and do a ride from Cannes to Nice along the sea coast so I can say that I have done that as well....
I am aware of driving in France that their motorways has tolls. How much in tolls from Calais to Carces could I be expected to pay? Would it be cheaper to fly to Marseille and get a little runaround? I am just thinking of the huge driving distances.

Datameister

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #22 on: 11 January, 2016, 01:20:02 pm »

that's pretty much what I've decided. But sadly the G really screws schedules up;its about 540km, and sunset/rise 8pm/7am.
I think if you dont get over the thing in daylight (which will be tough), you will lose a shit-load of time on the descent, which just sounds no fun at all. 600km in 36h in that terrain is ... challenging!

I think that photo foreshortens the ramp. IIRC there are no scary steep bits on either side,  just lots of 8-10%.
(I also suspect we can cut through the tunnel near the top :P )

Tunnel....really? You don't think that any self-respecting sadist organiser might put a secret control in the Car Park at the top (where the wind never seems to drop below 100kmh and the temperature never gets into positive territory)? Equally sadly for those who wish to uphold the Law, cycles are Verboten in the tunnel, though for any self-respecting gendarme to be there at that time of night he'd have had to been very bad in several previous lives.

As someone too fat slow fat to ever consider doing this ride except in his overly-vivid imagination but having been there in the car, I would think that the sleep options either side of the Galibier are probably Valloire (ski resort 20km-ish before the Galibier and then an early start in the dark) or the Col de Lautaret 10km over the top of the Galibier (10km downhill on a dark, steep, bumpy and winding road, and a probably hideously expensive hotel). That at least would make the early kilometres of the following morning a proper pleasure, downhill all most of the way to Bourg D'Oisans.

In terms of sustenance between Valloire and the Lauteret there are, from memory, 3 bar/restaurants (one at Plan L'Achat 9km before the top, and then one either end of the tunnel) but 24-hour drive-thru's they ain't.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #23 on: 11 January, 2016, 02:32:36 pm »
I had a look at Booking.com for places along the way - but most will want me to check in at a civilised time in the evening - when I will still be getting the miles in.  Also the route could always have a few tweaks and turns - the road from the Col du Lautaret to le Bourg d'Oisans was closed this year (they had to re-route the Tour de France) - that's one of the bigger roads that this will use.  I might reconsider the hotel booking, but am most likely to take my chances getting kip along the way.

I think the key is to get over the Galibier on the second day, although as drgannet mentions, once you get to the Lautaret at 550km the next 70km are all on big roads and so you should be able to get a good pace even in the gloom.  From 210km to 360km is the flattest (and hopefully fastest part of the route) so I will aim to make hay on that section on the first day, so that I can start the serious climbing straight off on day 2.  There is a Petit Casino store in Valloire which Zizag and I used for bonk rations before making it over the Galibier.  https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@45.1654547,6.4289531,3a,75y,222.98h,72.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBmnqwMANKVDV-o6utCsN5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

http://www.autoroutes.fr/en/routes.htm  gives you a route and tolll calculator - expect to pay about 80 - 90 Euros one way for motorway tolls.  The advantage of the tolls is that (with a few exceptions around Paris) the autoroutes tend to be free-flowing and easy to drive.  When I went to the Alps with zigzag in 2014 I sat on cruise-control for long distances at a stretch.  I'll drive as I have an aversion to the way that airports pack my bike onto planes after a combination of BA and Malpensa airport wrecked my bike on the way out to the Mille Miglia. 

I've not had problems with wild boars on Audaxes in the UK but when I did the Cambrian 4D a few years back I slept my the side of the road and was woken (in a slight state of panic) by the noise of a herd of cows on the other side of a gate, fearing that I was going to be trampled.

Journey out and back is now booked, on the Monday morning ferry Portsmouth to Caen, drive half way to a motel and arrive in Carces for a late lunch on the Tuesday.  Have to drive all the way back to Caen for the 23:00 ferry on Sunday night, so aiming to finish about midnight on Friday, and spend Saturday sleeping, eating and watching the later finishers.

Eddington Numbers 130 (imperial), 182 (metric) 574 (furlongs)  114 (nautical miles)

Re: Mille du Sud 2016
« Reply #24 on: 11 January, 2016, 03:12:00 pm »
Don’t blame you, my bike was trashed by Easyjet on the return journey to Gatwick. Something about being stuck in the machinery. Hard cases all round in the future.

Anyways that return journey seems to be 200 Euros for me each way from Calais which is preferably to the £800 I spent on repairing the bike. A cheap motel stop over is definitely needed.