Author Topic: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?  (Read 16601 times)

Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« on: 30 March, 2017, 08:37:11 am »
Hi - I've recently ordered a Brompton M6R-X (with -12% gearing), which I should be getting in a few weeks, to complement my Hewitt Cheviot SE tourer and open up more transport options, especially, but not solely, when touring.

One thing I wasn't 100% sure about when I ordered it was whether to get it with a rack or not (the bike shop I ordered from said I can still change my mind about the rack at this stage). I'm aware that with Brompton's the front luggage carrier is really the primary means of carrying stuff, as it doesn't interfere with the main fold and helps to balance the bike, but there is a limit to how much you can get in the T-bag. When touring with my Hewitt, I usually manage with just two rear panniers (Vaude Aqua's), and the tent (which packs quite small) strapped across the rack (sometimes also another drybag containing sleeping bag/thermarest, depending on how much I've put in the panniers) plus a small bar bag. 

The problem with the Brompton's rack, though, is I'm not sure how useful it would be - e.g. am I likely to be able to get my tent (and perhaps a drybag) on the rack (perhaps pointing inline with bike) without my feet fouling it (though I'm relatively short, 5' 8", with size 9 feet, if it makes any difference)? Also whenever I've got anything fixed to the rack I'm not going to be able to use the primary "parking" fold until I unload it, and when I don't need to use the rack it's still going to add weight (more of an issue on a folder than a normal bike) and arguably the bike looks better without the rack. On the other hand, a rack would add stability when parked, make the permanent lights be seen better (I will be fitting a SON dynamo), and a rack on a Brompton does open up some interesting options, such as carrying a backpack (I already own one) on the rack:

http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/2011/07/21/video-backpacks-on-bromptons/

I guess the other main option (apart from a trailer, which I don't want) would be to have a largish saddlebag (e.g. Carradice Nelson) instead, though with the larger saddlebags I'd probably also need a "Bagman" support, which is another thing to faff with...

BTW this does need to be a semi-permanent decision, as a Brompton without a rack requires a different mudguard to be fitted (with castor wheel and stays) and there'll also be the wiring for the rear dynamo light to re-arrange if I change my mind.

Thoughts?


Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #1 on: 30 March, 2017, 09:29:28 am »
Get the rack.
I've had a Brompton for 8 - 9 years I think. The stability with the rack when it is parked is great. (Yes, not being able to do that when you have stuff on the rack is a pain!) I'm 5'7", size 6 feet and anything sticking out over the sides of the rack does risk fouling; but I think you'd get a tent on (in line with the bike as you say) without issue.

My main reason for saying get the rack is that the front pannier will take LOADS of stuff - and I trashed the mount by taking advantage of this, so now I am a bit wary of putting too much on the front. 

There's a chap in another place who has toured on his Brompton; I'll see if I can find the thread sometime.

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #2 on: 30 March, 2017, 09:44:33 am »
Hello Oxford_Guy (and welcome!).
I'm not a Brompton owner, but it strikes me that the rear rack benefits you listed apply whether you're touring or not, so I'd be tempted to say order it anyway and then you've got more options further down the road.

This thread has a few photos of different luggage set-ups if you've not found it already:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=91394.msg1947919

I understand quixoticgeek is a seasoned Brompton tourer - her set-up with a drybag on the back here https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=88338.msg1815739#msg1815739



Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #3 on: 30 March, 2017, 11:16:52 am »
I'd say 'get the rack anyway' too; it will just make the machine more versatile in the long run, plus without the rack I think the back mudguard is much more likely to be damaged in daily use.

Yes, you can't park the bike in the same way when there is stuff on the rack but that will make your bike 'normal'; you will just have to find something to lean it against like the rest of us.... ;)

cheers

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #4 on: 30 March, 2017, 01:16:47 pm »
Thanks for the replies so far, I'll probably keep the rack, even though it adds a bit of weight. Some might question why I went for the Superlight frame, but then put 6 gears, (hub gear plus derailleur) a rack and (Son) dyno hub on it - but this was partly to offset the extra weight of all the extra bits, so that the bike will still light enough to carry folded, when needed. The corrosion-resistance of the Ti parts and (to a lesser extent) improved ride comfort were also factors.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #5 on: 30 March, 2017, 01:43:08 pm »
Hi - I've recently ordered a Brompton M6R-X (with -12% gearing), which I should be getting in a few weeks, to complement my Hewitt Cheviot SE tourer and open up more transport options, especially, but not solely, when touring.

One thing I wasn't 100% sure about when I ordered it was whether to get it with a rack or not (the bike shop I ordered from said I can still change my mind about the rack at this stage). I'm aware that with Brompton's the front luggage carrier is really the primary means of carrying stuff, as it doesn't interfere with the main fold and helps to balance the bike, but there is a limit to how much you can get in the T-bag. When touring with my Hewitt, I usually manage with just two rear panniers (Vaude Aqua's), and the tent (which packs quite small) strapped across the rack (sometimes also another drybag containing sleeping bag/thermarest, depending on how much I've put in the panniers) plus a small bar bag. 

The problem with the Brompton's rack, though, is I'm not sure how useful it would be - e.g. am I likely to be able to get my tent (and perhaps a drybag) on the rack (perhaps pointing inline with bike) without my feet fouling it (though I'm relatively short, 5' 8", with size 9 feet, if it makes any difference)? Also whenever I've got anything fixed to the rack I'm not going to be able to use the primary "parking" fold until I unload it, and when I don't need to use the rack it's still going to add weight (more of an issue on a folder than a normal bike) and arguably the bike looks better without the rack. On the other hand, a rack would add stability when parked, make the permanent lights be seen better (I will be fitting a SON dynamo), and a rack on a Brompton does open up some interesting options, such as carrying a backpack (I already own one) on the rack:

http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/2011/07/21/video-backpacks-on-bromptons/

I guess the other main option (apart from a trailer, which I don't want) would be to have a largish saddlebag (e.g. Carradice Nelson) instead, though with the larger saddlebags I'd probably also need a "Bagman" support, which is another thing to faff with...

BTW this does need to be a semi-permanent decision, as a Brompton without a rack requires a different mudguard to be fitted (with castor wheel and stays) and there'll also be the wiring for the rear dynamo light to re-arrange if I change my mind.

Thoughts?

Hello Paul :-) I'll bring the rackbag with me tomorrow and demonstrate the fold with it.

Kim

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Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #6 on: 30 March, 2017, 01:44:48 pm »
This was one of the things I was uncertain about when I was ordering my Brompton.  5 minutes of playing with folded and 'parked' Bromptons at the LBS quickly convinced me, however.  The Brompton park is useful, but not especially stable even with the rack, but the improvement in stability of the folded bike, and performance of the easy wheels is significant (if you're the right height the rack allows you to wheel the bike on two of the four wheels, for better control).  It also means that the rear light and mudguard are well-protected.

And you can carry things on it.

Panniers aren't really practical on account of the small wheel diameter, but it will take a standard rack-top bag without problems, and there's a large-capacity Radical bag that Brompton sell for the purpose.  The integrated bungees work well for bulky items of shopping.  I don't foresee a problem with a stuff-sack containing a tent or similar.  There's also the approach of hanging items from the saddle and using the rack to keep them from pressing on the mudguard/wheel, which I've seen done with a full-sized rucksack on some website somewhere.

AIUI it's much cheaper to order it with a new bike than to retrofit it.

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #7 on: 30 March, 2017, 02:18:23 pm »
Hi - I've recently ordered a Brompton M6R-X (with -12% gearing), which I should be getting in a few weeks, to complement my Hewitt Cheviot SE tourer and open up more transport options, especially, but not solely, when touring.

One thing I wasn't 100% sure about when I ordered it was whether to get it with a rack or not (the bike shop I ordered from said I can still change my mind about the rack at this stage). I'm aware that with Brompton's the front luggage carrier is really the primary means of carrying stuff, as it doesn't interfere with the main fold and helps to balance the bike, but there is a limit to how much you can get in the T-bag. When touring with my Hewitt, I usually manage with just two rear panniers (Vaude Aqua's), and the tent (which packs quite small) strapped across the rack (sometimes also another drybag containing sleeping bag/thermarest, depending on how much I've put in the panniers) plus a small bar bag. 

The problem with the Brompton's rack, though, is I'm not sure how useful it would be - e.g. am I likely to be able to get my tent (and perhaps a drybag) on the rack (perhaps pointing inline with bike) without my feet fouling it (though I'm relatively short, 5' 8", with size 9 feet, if it makes any difference)? Also whenever I've got anything fixed to the rack I'm not going to be able to use the primary "parking" fold until I unload it, and when I don't need to use the rack it's still going to add weight (more of an issue on a folder than a normal bike) and arguably the bike looks better without the rack. On the other hand, a rack would add stability when parked, make the permanent lights be seen better (I will be fitting a SON dynamo), and a rack on a Brompton does open up some interesting options, such as carrying a backpack (I already own one) on the rack:

http://www.pathlesspedaled.com/2011/07/21/video-backpacks-on-bromptons/

I guess the other main option (apart from a trailer, which I don't want) would be to have a largish saddlebag (e.g. Carradice Nelson) instead, though with the larger saddlebags I'd probably also need a "Bagman" support, which is another thing to faff with...

BTW this does need to be a semi-permanent decision, as a Brompton without a rack requires a different mudguard to be fitted (with castor wheel and stays) and there'll also be the wiring for the rear dynamo light to re-arrange if I change my mind.

Thoughts?

Hello Paul :-) I'll bring the rackbag with me tomorrow and demonstrate the fold with it.

Thanks Chris, thought I might see you on here :-)
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #8 on: 30 March, 2017, 02:23:29 pm »
One of the threads linked to up thread links to the thread in the other place I was thinking of: the photo I was thinking of is here:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/brompton-luggage-bodge.177620/page-3
I would be concerned about the amount of weight on the front mount...

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #9 on: 30 March, 2017, 02:53:51 pm »
The rear rack is now available in black:

I always thought the rearward slope of a R/T-type brom's  rack made it look funny: so painted mine black which mitigates that.... (then sold it and converted bike to an L type to save weight then discovered L's less-stable-foldedness and had to invent way of having 4 eazy rollers on L type......)

So I would buy a new Brompton with a (black) rack but might take a hacksaw to the 2 outer bars of the platform.....

EDIT: that linked ti rack seems to have forgotten a lamp mount: a pity......

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #10 on: 30 March, 2017, 03:01:43 pm »
The larger Ti rack does have a mount for lights, though
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

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Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #11 on: 30 March, 2017, 03:36:01 pm »
Thanks for the replies so far, I'll probably keep the rack, even though it adds a bit of weight. Some might question why I went for the Superlight frame, but then put 6 gears, (hub gear plus derailleur) a rack and (Son) dyno hub on it - but this was partly to offset the extra weight of all the extra bits, so that the bike will still light enough to carry folded, when needed. The corrosion-resistance of the Ti parts and (to a lesser extent) improved ride comfort were also factors.

I got the same (except dyno hub).  I don't believe the very compact titanium frame and forks provide any comfort, but still it's perfectly good logic to have both the lighter frame and the extra bits.

The rack with four Easy Wheels is great for pushing the folded bike around even if never used for luggage.  You may be happy without if you don't use public transport much, though.
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Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #12 on: 30 March, 2017, 08:30:43 pm »
Apropos of nothing in particular.... I bumped into a Bromptonista in the Greenwich Foot Tunnel this evening.
One thing about his bike which caught my attention was that it had four eazy-wheels, but no rack, and the additional wheels were off centre, mounted directly on the mdgrd, with maybe less than 100mm of axle between them.
Home made? I enquired.
Apparently not, but available from a Taiwanese pimp-my-brompton website.
I asked about the offset and was advised that it was to aid stability.
It looked home made. And not especially robust. The poor mdgrd gets hammered enough as it is with one wheel - never mind two wheels, each with ~50mm of leverage.
It turns out that my new-found small-wheeled friend had suffered a collision earlier in the day, somewhere along the canal, whereby a big-wheeled cyclist had rear-ended him, colliding with the additional wheels, and effectively destroying their mounts.
See above, my sentence which contains the word 'robust'.
Most unfortunately (for the collider) he ended up in the canal.
Weil's disease?  :sick:


Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #13 on: 31 March, 2017, 01:29:51 pm »
I tour on my M6R, and UL out of the single front T bag, but my rack is indispensable for rolling while folded, and a major reasons I prefer my Brompton over my other folders.  I've rolled my bike many miles/hours through pedestrian-only malls and parks, museums, zoos, train stations, hotels, restaurants, etc, touring pannier clipped in, no less.  If I sense an official type eyeing me, I'll go up to them and ask - "you allow baby strollers here, right?"  That usually works, as I am no different.  I even installed the X-roller for a tip-free stability.

I also like the rack for loading up on extra water (3L) at the end of the day when wild/stealth camping for a shower, dinner, b'fast and next morning's ride. 

Consider an alternate carrying method to offset the weight. My B is up to ~35lbs (loaded with tools, lock, water) and I can carry it far further on top of my shoulder (5-gallon water cooler jug style) than if it were 25lbs carried like a suitcase at my side.

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #14 on: 31 March, 2017, 01:56:50 pm »

My main reason for saying get the rack is that the front pannier will take LOADS of stuff - and I trashed the mount by taking advantage of this, so now I am a bit wary of putting too much on the front. 


Very curious what weight and road conditions it took to trash your mount?  Also was it just the plastic mount that failed (easy to replace) or did the metal braze-on fail or strip threads? 

I try to keep my T bag <20lbs/9Kg, and backpack it over rough sections of road - not sure if that's being overly cautious.



LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #15 on: 31 March, 2017, 01:59:57 pm »
The first Brompton baby seats were mounted to the Brompton block. I don't recall any failures. The block is very strong. I've ridden a Brompton loaded with shopping heavy enough to spontaneously lift the saddle when my weight wasn't holding it down.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #16 on: 31 March, 2017, 08:04:06 pm »
Yes, it seems like it'll handle twice the rated weight on good paved roads, but I have to believe some constant hammering on cobble stone, or embedded rocks on unpaved trails, will eventually take its toll. 

Standing on the pedals, and even the tiny suspension can help a lot with the rider's weight, but the luggage block is totally unsprung. 

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #17 on: 01 April, 2017, 08:30:02 am »
Just make sure the bolts are tight and the chances of block failure are low.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #18 on: 24 April, 2017, 01:28:47 pm »

My main reason for saying get the rack is that the front pannier will take LOADS of stuff - and I trashed the mount by taking advantage of this, so now I am a bit wary of putting too much on the front. 


Very curious what weight and road conditions it took to trash your mount?  Also was it just the plastic mount that failed (easy to replace) or did the metal braze-on fail or strip threads? 

I try to keep my T bag <20lbs/9Kg, and backpack it over rough sections of road - not sure if that's being overly cautious.

The threads in the bolts attaching the block to the bike are somewhat stripped. Also I think the block broke - I'm pretty sure I had to get a new one. That was with shopping for one person including a couple of cartons of fruit juice being bounced about over Edinburgh's roads...

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #19 on: 25 April, 2017, 01:00:09 pm »
BTW I did get a rack for my new Brompton in the end, gives me more load carrying options and helps with stability when parking it
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Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #20 on: 02 June, 2017, 09:06:31 am »
I am also planning to use my Brompton as a touring bike. It can be useful for shorter trips as it can be more handy (and cheaper ;)) during flights.

My idea is to use two transverse bags: bigger on front carrier and smaller attached to the saddle loops

This setup is about 36 liters, however top lid in bigger bag can be extended giving some extra space.

I think that rack will be still useful to carry heavier things like bottles with water.

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #21 on: 02 June, 2017, 09:17:08 am »
On the bike behind the brompton, how are you supporting the saddlebag?
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Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #22 on: 02 June, 2017, 09:44:42 am »
it's a long time since i've toured with a Brompton but, iirc, the saddlebag was fine without support

Re: Brompton for light touring - rear rack, yes or no?
« Reply #23 on: 02 June, 2017, 10:46:44 am »
As you have a rear rack, perhaps the rucsac as saddlebag approach:

where  a medium/large  rucksack is hung from  a transverse rod through saddle rails (see AtoB Nov2016 page 17 or http://pathlesspedaled.com/2011/07/video-backpacks-on-bromptons/ ).