Through axles vs QR

[quixoticgeek]

It looks like the bike industry is trying to move towards using 12mm or 15mm thru axles instead of the traditional QR setup. It's an interesting idea, but for those of us who have the bikes built for the older QR axles, is there a way to use hubs designed for 12mm or 15mm thru axle hubs with QR skewers on older frames?

J

[spesh]

You can get adapters.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=thru+axle+adapter&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqlOC5uZHWAhXHMhoKHdL4CJwQsxgILw&biw=1280&bih=866

[Vince]

Didn't read every entry there, but most of them seem to be for adapting truing stands and roof racks.

[spesh]

Fine, just try being more specific with the search terms, then. 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1280&bih=866&tbm=shop&q=thru+axle+to+quick+release+adapter&oq=thru+axle+to+quick+release+adapter&gs_l=psy-ab.3...35700.45829.0.46476.30.27.3.0.0.0.137.2450.12j12.24.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..3.4.413...0.B7xwjoA6HJQ

[Torslanda]

Fulcrum seem to be going that way, just bought the bits to convert a pair of 77 disc road wheels to QR.

Eyewateringly expensive for a few bits of machined alloy.

[yoav]

OTOH, you'll be able to buy traditional QR hubs for years to come so you don't have to settle for thru axle hubs.

[quixoticgeek]

OTOH, you'll be able to buy traditional QR hubs for years to come so you don't have to settle for thru axle hubs.

Please to be linking me to the 36 hole QR hubs from shimano above deore level...

J

[The French Tandem]

I have seen a few road bikes with thru axle wheels on LEL. Admittedly, I'm certainly ignorant on these things, but it looks like a solution seeking for a problem. What's wrong with traditional QRs?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Not so good with disk brakes as through axles are.

[cameronp]

Please to be linking me to the 36 hole QR hubs from shimano above deore level...

36 spokes is a separate issue again! Shimano seem to have more variety available in QR than TA at the moment. e.g. if you want a Shimano disc hub that fits an 11 speed road cassette, the only choice is the RS505, which is only available in Centrelock, 32H, quick release form.

The number of permutations available for disc hubs is atrocious and must be an absolute nightmare for manufacturers and distributors. If all of the combinations of {QR, 12x142 TA, 12x148 TA} x {SRAM XD, Shimano 11 spd road, Campagnolo} x {6 bolt, Centrelock} x {24, 28, 32, 36} are provided, that looks like 72 versions of each hub - most of which would probably see very little demand. DT Swiss seems to be trying to cover most of these bases, although once again no 36H option.

[hulver]

Not so good with disk brakes as through axles are.

It's quite easy to mislay a black through axle when it's dark and you're tired though. 

[The French Tandem]

Not so good with disk brakes as through axles are.

Are you talking about the problem of front wheels being pulled out of the fork under hard braking? I thought it was a problem of improper caliper placement on early disc brakes, combined with cheap/ insufficiently tight quick release.

[Zed43]

It is said that you'll experience less (disc) brake squeal with TA because your wheel will be at exactly the same place as before after fixing a flat (or whatever reason that caused you to remove the wheel). QRs apparently have more leeway which may result in a slightly different alignment on each install.

Regardless, my front brake still squeals like mad...

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Not so good with disk brakes as through axles are.

Are you talking about the problem of front wheels being pulled out of the fork under hard braking? I thought it was a problem of improper caliper placement on early disc brakes, combined with cheap/ insufficiently tight quick release.

Mostly to do with the increased stiffness of through axles keeping the fork blades better aligned under heavy braking. A secondary advantage is that wheel alignment is more repeatable after the wheel is inserted, so less chance of dragging.

[The French Tandem]

I've learned something today, thank you

[Brucey]

but ref your earlier comment, I don't think a standard QR is always going to be good enough.

Under heavy braking the load on the front axle can be in the region of 500kg. Since the tension in the skewer is likely to be about the same and the coefficient of friction isn't going to be super high, one is usually reliant on mechanical features so as not to have the wheel move. 

On enthusiastically-ridden bikes with large disc braked wheels, smallish discs and QR hubs, it isn't at all unusual to see obvious signs that the wheel has been moving around. Both front and rear wheels tend to move one way when the bike is ridden and another way when the brakes are used.

cheers

[The French Tandem]

Under heavy braking the load on the front axle can be in the region of 500kg. Since the tension in the skewer is likely to be about the same and the coefficient of friction isn't going to be super high, one is usually reliant on mechanical features so as not to have the wheel move. 

Isn't this the reason why lawyer lips were invented? (although through axle wheels are certainly better at keeping everything in place compared to QR and lawyer lips!)

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Lawyer lips were invented to counteract lawsuits caused by idiots using QRs as wingnuts.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Under heavy braking the load on the front axle can be in the region of 500kg. Since the tension in the skewer is likely to be about the same and the coefficient of friction isn't going to be super high, one is usually reliant on mechanical features so as not to have the wheel move. 

Isn't this the reason why lawyer lips were invented? (although through axle wheels are certainly better at keeping everything in place compared to QR and lawyer lips!)

My forks don't have lawyer lips.

A common 'solution' is tapered dropouts. These do help prevent movement, but cause other problems.

[tom_e]

I'm normally a fan of compatibility, and the idea of making all our kiddy-trailers and other bits compatible with a new axle fitting is annoying.  However, my experience of disc brakes with QR is that it isn't unfortunately unusual to get a little wheel movement after harsh braking or mtb-type antics.  Add to that the ability to make the fork stiffer and I don't think thru-axle is change for the sake of change and profit alone.  I haven't personally tried them yet, but have heard good things from one who has, and I don't think QR is perfect once disc brakes and particularly off-road is in the picture.

[Brucey]

Lawyer lips were invented to counteract lawsuits caused by idiots using QRs as wingnuts.

yup, they predate widespread disc brake use, and suddenly appeared on everything.

It didn't help that there were some QR skewers (eg spinstix..?) that were designed to be tightened by turning them....

cheers

[mzjo]

I have seen a few road bikes with thru axle wheels on LEL. Admittedly, I'm certainly ignorant on these things, but it looks like a solution seeking for a problem. What's wrong with traditional QRs?

Devise des Shaddocks: "Pas de solution sans problème"!!

I think that if we had had through axles before quick release fastenings we might well be saying exactly the same thing the other way around.

Personally I don't see any good reason to have wingnuts on a rear wheel when hex nuts work better (and if you are going to carry a spanner, might as well put nuts on the front wheel as well)!!

On a different note would people please stop using capitals for ta as in through axle? Every time I see it I wonder what a celebrated chainset manufacturer is doing making hubs!!

[cameronp]

On a different note would people please stop using capitals for ta as in through axle? Every time I see it I wonder what a celebrated chainset manufacturer is doing making hubs!!

Not to mention that writing it as "thru axle" has become popular, for no discernible reason. Despite being an abomination toward the English language, I've taken to spelling it that way for consistency with how the manufacturers of my frame, fork and both hubs spell it.

[Brucey]

....I think that if we had had through axles before quick release fastenings we might well be saying exactly the same thing the other way around....

hmmm I wonder; is it possible that we would be asking if the speedier/easier wheel change and lighter, safer (in a prang) bike with QR hubs/rim brakes is 'worth it' vs one with disc brakes....?

cheers

[Morat]

I have two disk braked bikes, one with through axles and one with quick releases. I've only once had a problem with the wheel retention on QR and that wasn't even when braking, it was the rear that popped out when I was climbing a very steep hill in my lowest gear. Luckily I was able to unclip before toppling off. Mea Culpa, I had the QR set too slack for my.. ahem.. power. OK, weight.

I do find the front to be more solid with a Through Axle. Both bikes have carbon forks and the one with quick release can judder quite badly if the front brake isn't running nice and smoothly. The through axle fork is always solid under braking despite having the more powerful hydraulic brakes.

This is a sample of one, and they are different forks although they're from the same manufacturer (Kona) and only one year apart. If I were in the market for a third bike I'd choose Through Axles because they're less hassle if you need to take your wheels off and I like the reassurance that they're more secure. Maybe it's unfair to blame QR for user error, but that wouldn't have been any compensation had I punched my face into my stem.