On Why 'Be safe, Be Seen' Is Nonsense

[Torslanda]

Presented here, without prejudice or comment, are a couple of blog links which some of you may have read.

The first sets out the circumstances.

The second details reactions after the the first went viral on social media.

Interesting reading . . .

[ian]

You can only be seen if someone is looking. Which I suspect is the actual problem.

[hellymedic]

You can only be seen if someone is looking. Which I suspect is the actual problem.

Too true!

[Kim]

And even then, they still have to give a fuck.

[ian]

Well, you were in the way.

[Gattopardo]

And even then, they still have to give a fuck.

Yep. The I am in a metal box so better than you.

[Gattopardo]

Well, you were in the way.

People who have that attitude need some percussive maintenance to help reinforce how wrong they are.

[T42]

And even then, they still have to give a fuck.

+1. At best we're an obstacle and at worst we're scratched paintwork and a sore wrist from getting it unjustly slapped.

[arabella]

All of which underlines why I don't wear hi-viz: it means I have absolutely no illusions/expectations about being seen.
(I then, inconsistently, wear a high-viz jacket on overnight audaxes, in case I forget that I have no illusions/expectations etc., or to shut people up, or something)

[Robh]

You can only be seen if someone is looking. Which I suspect is the actual problem.

...

And even then, they still have to give a fuck.

This is precisely it. Now all we need is a means of telling everybody else. (Or, rather, ‘everybody else who gives a fuck’.)

[mrcharly-YHT]

You can only be seen if someone is looking. Which I suspect is the actual problem.

Very true.

However I have noticed that when I am carrying metal objects, e.g. a spade, sticking out from my bike, drivers seem to be looking and give me a wide berth.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Was driving onto a very large roundabout (not York), with no streetlamps in pitch dark.  I was about to pull onto it when out of the corner of my eye a shadow appeared on the outer periphery.

A 'cyclist' with no lights or high vis wearing a hoodie on one of those bikes way too small for the rider.  The saddle appeared to be made of packing tape.

I saw him in time and stopped, for which, surprisingly he waved thanks and sped off to disappear into the gloom.

[pcolbeck]

Its not a binary thing though is it?

Just because some people are so unobservant that they don't see fluorescent painted fire engines with flashing lights and manage to crash into them doesn't mean that good lights and hiz viz clothing doesn't make more visible to other people.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Was driving onto a very large roundabout (not York), with no streetlamps in pitch dark.  I was about to pull onto it when out of the corner of my eye a shadow appeared on the outer periphery.

A 'cyclist' with no lights or high vis wearing a hoodie on one of those bikes way too small for the rider.  The saddle appeared to be made of packing tape.

I saw him in time and stopped, for which, surprisingly he waved thanks and sped off to disappear into the gloom.

I think that's quite illustrative. He didn't expect to be seen, he expected to have to give way. If the angle or distance had been slightly different or if your eyesight was not so good, you might not have seen him. At least as likely, if you weren't a cyclist you might have dismissed him, consciously or not; he's only one of those guys in hoodies on a pushbike and he doesn't even have any lights, he's going to stop even though he's on the roundabout already.

[dim]

Its not a binary thing though is it?

Just because some people are so unobservant that they don't see fluorescent painted fire engines with flashing lights and manage to crash into them doesn't mean that good lights and hiz viz clothing doesn't make more visible to other people.

exactly my point .... this topic is discussed on several forums over and over again .... and it was dicsussed here in depth recently

you get the 'macho type' that believe that hi viz is BS, so they buy a black jersey (to look cool, and to be 'fashionable and match their bike's paint spec) and they like to look like a ninja,

instead of buying the dark orange one (that costs the same and that some 70 years olds driving Nissan Micra's might spot you in the corner of their eyes, after thay have had their tranquillers and anti-depressent medication)

does not make sense to me ? .... which reminds me, I need to get a Proviz 360 jacket soon

[Karla]

Its not a binary thing though is it?

Just because some people are so unobservant that they don't see fluorescent painted fire engines with flashing lights and manage to crash into them doesn't mean that good lights and hiz viz clothing doesn't make more visible to other people.

exactly my point .... this topic is discussed on several forums over and over again .... and it was dicsussed here in depth recently

you get the 'macho type' that believe that hi viz is BS, so they buy a black jersey (to look cool, and to be 'fashionable and match their bike's paint spec) and they like to look like a ninja,

instead of buying the dark orange one (that costs the same and that some 70 years olds driving Nissan Micra's might spot you in the corner of their eyes, after thay have had their tranquillers and anti-depressent medication)

does not make sense to me ? .... which reminds me, I need to get a Proviz 360 jacket soon

Or alternatively:

The edge cases of orange/black are too rare to worry about - you may as well wear a lead suit for day to day life.
Being seen to bow to the hi-viz agenda is a strategic loss for cycling because it lets the victim blamers win.
Black is quite a good colour to be seen in daylight.
Orange is quite a bad people for most colourblind people to see.
Orange is the new black.