Author Topic: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?  (Read 12678 times)

Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« on: 09 May, 2018, 10:43:32 pm »
Is the (discontinued) 2015 Campag Athena groupset any good or are there any known issues with it? I've been considering picking up a Silver Campag Athena groupset for a neo-retro audax build I have in mind,  whilst they're still available to buy in some places. Or should I just go with the more technically advanced (but uglier) silver Potenza groupset?

The Silver Athena groupset looks like this:



Also - do most steel audax-style frames have fittings for braze-on front-derailleurs?
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Torslanda

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Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #1 on: 09 May, 2018, 10:51:36 pm »
The only 'issue' I'm aware of is the arseing about to fit the Power Torque cups and driveside bearing. Like as not you'll only have to fit it once but - should you need to remove the cranks - you will need a dedicated puller.

Having said all that you can use any crankset you like. Also unless you want to buy Marchisio custom cassettes the lowest gear is a 29.   
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Karla

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Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #2 on: 09 May, 2018, 10:54:44 pm »
The shifters are Powershift aren't they?  Powershift is alright while it actually works but it's fragile.  I wouldn't recommend it.

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #3 on: 09 May, 2018, 11:12:18 pm »
The only 'issue' I'm aware of is the arseing about to fit the Power Torque cups and driveside bearing. Like as not you'll only have to fit it once but - should you need to remove the cranks - you will need a dedicated puller.

Having said all that you can use any crankset you like. Also unless you want to buy Marchisio custom cassettes the lowest gear is a 29.

That's two advantages the Potenza groupset has - it has Ultratorque cups and the medium cage version of it's rear mechanism can run an 11-32 cassette. On the other hand I'm not intending on lugging anything heavier than a light saddle bag on the bike I have in mind for this, I have a tourer for heavy loads.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #4 on: 09 May, 2018, 11:41:15 pm »
The shifters are Powershift aren't they?  Powershift is alright while it actually works but it's fragile.  I wouldn't recommend it.

Yes, but so are the Potenza shifters, you only get Ultrashift from Chorus upwards, but then that's carbon, not shiny aluminium....
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #5 on: 10 May, 2018, 06:50:01 am »
You will eventually have to change the bearings on the BB/Cranks and it is a ridiculous pain in the arse. You need a puller to get the crank off and another long arm one to get the bearing off the axle, you also need a blanking disc to sit in the crank thread to brace against the puller.


Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #6 on: 10 May, 2018, 07:00:21 am »
But that crankset is intended to be admired, isn't it?

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #7 on: 10 May, 2018, 09:34:27 am »
shifter mechanism is made of cheese*, how they passed the approval is beyond me.

*ratchets are plastic(!) and the metal dog pawl chews them in no time.

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #8 on: 10 May, 2018, 09:45:20 am »
I had a pair of Campag Record 2006 shifters. In the space of 6 years they broke 3 times...

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #9 on: 10 May, 2018, 09:56:41 am »
I had a pair of Campag Record 2006 shifters. In the space of 6 years they broke 3 times...
Blimey. I have a Chorus set from that year and they're fantastically super-smooth. I did buy
some Record ones (2009) three years ago. They haven't seen much action, as they're on my
summer only bike.


I have nothing against Shimano, it's just that I like the thumb lever on them (ultrashift only).




Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #10 on: 10 May, 2018, 11:02:39 am »
shifter mechanism is made of cheese*, how they passed the approval is beyond me.

*ratchets are plastic(!) and the metal dog pawl chews them in no time.

yup, they are proper shite. The part that wears first  (in the ones that I have seen) looks like it came out of a Christmas cracker. No... that would be doing a disservice to Christmas crackers...  If that was the full extent to it then it might be OK but

a) fragments of the wearing part get into the rest of the mechanism and the hard steel parts  can suffer damage as a consequence.... and

b) the wearing part is riveted (not screwed) to the rest of the mechanism and cannot be replaced.

If you could replace the offending (plastic) part at regular intervals (once a year or once every six months if you do a lot of miles) then you might get a reasonable service life out of it. But noooo.... that would be too simple.

I have heard theories that the plastic part that wears

1) is made soft (and therefore more likely to wear) by the use of 'the wrong lubricant'. BTW seemingly Campag's idea of 'the right lubricant' is, er, nothing :o :o  thus confirming that they don't understand either 'weather' or 'riding your bike much'.... ::-)

2) has been revised to be an 'improved plastic'.  Well they are still wearing out prematurely (the shifters often last less long than, oooh, a chain does...) so I'm not buying it as a 'cure'.

To the above I'll add a little theory of my own which is that the worst troubles come when the shifter is used half-heartedly on shifts that let the spring pay the cable out.  IIRC the wearing parts are the 'escapement' ones that control the shift; basically a plastic prong is meant to stop a toothed wheel from turning under derailleur spring tension, once the main index pawl (steel on steel) is released.  This only stands a chance of working if it is fairly firmly used; any slippage knocks the tip off the prong and thereafter it is only a matter of time till it slips. Maybe you can delay the inevitable by being firm with the shifters (and maybe this is how they were operated on some kind of test rig...). The shifters which suffer worst are often triple front shifters, presumably because the mechanism travels a fair way when each shift is done and the mechanism can be spun up to some speed before it is meant to be stopped by the idiotic plastic prong.

Add in the PT bearing issues and the groupset has surprisingly little appeal to anyone who actually rides their bike very much. Shame really.

cheers


Samuel D

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #11 on: 10 May, 2018, 12:34:16 pm »
Check the brake reach is sufficient for the frame that interests you, since many audax-style frames are designed for longer-drop callipers.

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #12 on: 10 May, 2018, 01:59:20 pm »
shifter mechanism is made of cheese*, how they passed the approval is beyond me.

*ratchets are plastic(!) and the metal dog pawl chews them in no time.

yup, they are proper shite. The part that wears first  (in the ones that I have seen) looks like it came out of a Christmas cracker. No... that would be doing a disservice to Christmas crackers...

[text cropped]

Add in the PT bearing issues and the groupset has surprisingly little appeal to anyone who actually rides their bike very much. Shame really.

Okay, this very much sounds like "avoid", as whilst the build I have in mind wouldn't be used as my "daily driver" and do want to use it for regular long weekend rides. Pity, as it's a very pretty groupset.

Campag shifter-wise, I've had only experienced 10-speed Campag Veloce shifters from 2006 previously, I really liked the shifting controls (especially the fine control of the front mech) and prefer my brake levers not to move sideways (i.e. Shimano), though did experience some issues with them - the "G-springs"(?) in them broke several times (over a period of 9 years of regular use), the indexing eventually became fairly non-existent (more like friction shifting) and some other spring on the left shifter broke or fell off, leaving it dangling loose. They also seemed to eat (i.e. snap) gear cables inside the shifters quite often. I had these on my Hewitt touring bike, but recently replaced them with bar-end shifters, however I have sent them off to have the internals replaced, so might use them again at some point.

Does the Potenza groupset have the same issues with the shifters (they look very similar and are also Powershift, not Ultrashift)? If so, sounds like I may have to consider Shimano, perhaps the silver 105 groupset, but it's not the same look.
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #13 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:00:59 pm »
Check the brake reach is sufficient for the frame that interests you, since many audax-style frames are designed for longer-drop callipers.

I'm hoping not to need long-drop calipers - does anyone know if Campag and/or Shimano standard dual pivot brakes give enough clearance (with a suitable frame) to run 25mm tyres with mudguards?
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Karla

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Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #14 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:23:48 pm »
The shifters are Powershift aren't they?  Powershift is alright while it actually works but it's fragile.  I wouldn't recommend it.

Yes, but so are the Potenza shifters, you only get Ultrashift from Chorus upwards, but then that's carbon, not shiny aluminium....

... which is why I doubt I'll buy another Campag groupset until things change.  You can get Ultrashift shifter bodies for about £70 each which I think are the Athena shape (the Potenza shape is slightly different) so if you want to pay an extra £140 (minus what you get reselling your old bodies) to get both 'the look' and a groupset that works, you could do that. 

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #15 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:27:47 pm »


I'm hoping not to need long-drop calipers - does anyone know if Campag and/or Shimano standard dual pivot brakes give enough clearance (with a suitable frame) to run 25mm tyres with mudguards?

it's not the case of knowing - it may or may not work depending on clearances on the forks. if all frames and forks were built to a common standard it would be easy to answer. as it is, measure your frame/fork and see which brakes would fit. also worth bearing in mind the real size of a tyre.

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #16 on: 10 May, 2018, 03:30:28 pm »
The shifters are Powershift aren't they?  Powershift is alright while it actually works but it's fragile.  I wouldn't recommend it.

Yes, but so are the Potenza shifters, you only get Ultrashift from Chorus upwards, but then that's carbon, not shiny aluminium....

... which is why I doubt I'll buy another Campag groupset until things change.  You can get Ultrashift shifter bodies for about £70 each which I think are the Athena shape (the Potenza shape is slightly different) so if you want to pay an extra £140 (minus what you get reselling your old bodies) to get both 'the look' and a groupset that works, you could do that.

Ah, but do Ultrashift levers pull the same amount of cable? If not, then wouldn't be able to use the nice shiny Athena mechs... Also sounds like an expensive path to go down...
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #17 on: 10 May, 2018, 03:32:16 pm »


I'm hoping not to need long-drop calipers - does anyone know if Campag and/or Shimano standard dual pivot brakes give enough clearance (with a suitable frame) to run 25mm tyres with mudguards?

it's not the case of knowing - it may or may not work depending on clearances on the forks. if all frames and forks were built to a common standard it would be easy to answer. as it is, measure your frame/fork and see which brakes would fit. also worth bearing in mind the real size of a tyre.

Well I haven't bought the frame yet... was considering a Mercian Audax frame or possibly Bob Jackson Audax or End to End...
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #18 on: 10 May, 2018, 04:13:27 pm »
The shifters are Powershift aren't they?  Powershift is alright while it actually works but it's fragile.  I wouldn't recommend it.

Yes, but so are the Potenza shifters, you only get Ultrashift from Chorus upwards, but then that's carbon, not shiny aluminium....

... which is why I doubt I'll buy another Campag groupset until things change.  You can get Ultrashift shifter bodies for about £70 each which I think are the Athena shape (the Potenza shape is slightly different) so if you want to pay an extra £140 (minus what you get reselling your old bodies) to get both 'the look' and a groupset that works, you could do that.

Ah, but do Ultrashift levers pull the same amount of cable? If not, then wouldn't be able to use the nice shiny Athena mechs... Also sounds like an expensive path to go down...

Yes they do, BS (sorry PS) is merely a cheaper mechanism that Campag have been rolling up their groupset levels for a few years now. 

Basically, unless you're prepared to pay for Chorus, don't get Campag.

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #19 on: 10 May, 2018, 05:29:22 pm »
The shifters are Powershift aren't they?  Powershift is alright while it actually works but it's fragile.  I wouldn't recommend it.

Yes, but so are the Potenza shifters, you only get Ultrashift from Chorus upwards, but then that's carbon, not shiny aluminium....

... which is why I doubt I'll buy another Campag groupset until things change.  You can get Ultrashift shifter bodies for about £70 each which I think are the Athena shape (the Potenza shape is slightly different) so if you want to pay an extra £140 (minus what you get reselling your old bodies) to get both 'the look' and a groupset that works, you could do that.

Ah, but do Ultrashift levers pull the same amount of cable? If not, then wouldn't be able to use the nice shiny Athena mechs... Also sounds like an expensive path to go down...

Yes they do, BS (sorry PS) is merely a cheaper mechanism that Campag have been rolling up their groupset levels for a few years now. 

Basically, unless you're prepared to pay for Chorus, don't get Campag.

I see... Not everyone wants plastic carbon levers and mechs, and everything black, though and I'm not prepared to go down the downtube friction shifters route for this build. Sounds like a silver Shimano 105 groupset may be the only sensible option, though the ugly (especially the r7000 one) stock 105 chainset may have to go - any alternative suggestions?
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Phil W

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #20 on: 10 May, 2018, 05:41:37 pm »
Reading the dual control shifters are made of chesse comments with amusement.  Ultegra dual ciontrol are not much better. Internals full of plastic stuff that breaks. I have given up on dual control levers. My replacement frame will be built up with bar end shifters and brakes that brake not break.  I want it to be reliable and if cables do go to be able to quickly put another in, at the side of the road.

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #21 on: 10 May, 2018, 05:46:42 pm »
Reading the dual control shifters are made of chesse comments with amusement.  Ultegra dual ciontrol are not much better. Internals full of plastic stuff that breaks. I have given up on dual control levers. My replacement frame will be built up with bar end shifters and brakes that brake not break.  I want it to be reliable and if cables do go to be able to quickly put another in, at the side of the road.

Well I do have Shimano Dura Ace bar end shifters (and Shimano BL-R400 brake levers) on my Hewitt tourer now (Campag Veloce Ergos previously), but fancied having dual-control levers on the build I have in mind, which I wanted to be a bit "racier"
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #22 on: 10 May, 2018, 06:50:52 pm »
Ive never had a Shimano lever break on me. Ive had Campag levers break 3 times.

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #23 on: 10 May, 2018, 06:59:14 pm »
You will eventually have to change the bearings on the BB/Cranks and it is a ridiculous pain in the arse. You need a puller to get the crank off and another long arm one to get the bearing off the axle, you also need a blanking disc to sit in the crank thread to brace against the puller.


It's a piece of piss. I did mine the other day. You can get a decent puller and installer thing for less than 30 quid now...
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Is the (discontinued) Campag Athena groupset any good?
« Reply #24 on: 10 May, 2018, 07:10:21 pm »
And the bearing on the axle?

I've done it many times. It's not a piece of piss, it's a total stupid faff when compared with any other system. It's a cheapo load of bollocks designed for OEM, speed of installation.

£30? Plus £15-20 for the Campag cup remover, plus a tenner for the stupid blanking disc.So well over £50 in tooling.

An HT2 spanner is £8