Author Topic: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued  (Read 3171 times)

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« on: 14 May, 2018, 12:38:03 pm »
That includes spares, so except for individual ball bearings, you're SOL once stocks have run out (I knew I should have bought that Duomatic brake shell last year but they're all gone now).  This includes Sachs hubs as used on Bromptons.  SRAM's rationale is that the sort of people who bought hub-geared bikes are now buying e-bikes instead, and e-bikes tend to have derailleurs.  Good news for Sturmey-Archer and Shimano, I guess.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Kim

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Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #1 on: 14 May, 2018, 12:47:41 pm »
SRAM's rationale is that the sort of people who bought hub-geared bikes are now buying e-bikes instead, and e-bikes tend to have derailleurs.

Interesting logic.  IME e-bikes mostly have derailleurs because on low-end models they've skimped on the bike in order to offset the cost of the electrickery.  At the higher end, hub gears aren't uncommon on the utility bikes, though the mountain bikes tend to have derailleurs, presumably because they're better at shifting under load[1] and can take more abuse than Nexuses.


[1] Something of a sticking point when you combine hub gears with a mid-drive motor:  You either need the motor controller to know what the gears are doing so it can back off momentarily, or a system that's really quick to respond when you stop pedalling combined with a rider with mechanical sympathy.

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #2 on: 14 May, 2018, 01:21:36 pm »
This is old news, announced a few months ago. The reality is that SRAM moved IGH production to Taiwan several years ago and that about coincided with them abandoning 5 and 7s hub production with the intention of conquering the world with G8 and G9 hubs (which were meant to work with an e-drive BTW). They didn't sell so that didn't work.

They also started making a new version of the 3s hub, with a really stupid design that used a cable that ran around a tight radius into the hub (instead of a toggle chain). The stupid cable will break after a short period of time anyway and if you are daft enough to unscrew it whilst it is still in one piece, you will find that you cannot replace a used cable without taking the hub apart. A new cable isn't (wasn't) very expensive and can be fitted without taking the hub apart, (provided you don't still have half the old cable stuck inside the hub.... ::-)). But that is no consolation if you don't have a new cable, of course.

To cap it all the revised 3s design was faulty so that the failure rate on these newer hubs is way higher than it should be. A fault I have seen several times is that there is a snap ring which stops the high gear pawl pins from sliding out. Amazingly the idiot that designed this part made it of a length that, (when installed) has a gap between the ends  big enough to let a pawl pin slide out. Duh! This causes the most spectacular hub smash-ups imaginable (think no re-usuable parts inside) and (presumably because the gap starts out in the wrong place in some cases and in others the snap ring moves in service) the failure can occur in the first week or the first year.

So SRAM  abandoned production of all IGHs over 3s about eighteen months ago,  leaving 2s and 3s hubs. The most recent announcement was that even these (and all spares) were to be discontinued.  At one time (in the not too distant past)  Sachs/SRAM made 1,000,000 IGHs a year (or more) but in the last year they made only a tenth of that; not enough to have a half-decent business. The 3s hubs have been so bad that no-one wants them. At least one LBS proprietor has told me that they wouldn't have bikes with recent SRAM IGHs in as a gift, they have caused so much trouble. 

Needless to say there is a global market for simple 3s IGHs that is many tens of millions, which SA and Shimano now have between them, to the almost complete exclusion of others.

BTW I have had plenty of experience of faulty SRAM 5s and 7s hubs. Invariably the problems have been entirely with (or have at least started with) the crappy clickboxes, pushrods and shifters. By comparison the hub internals seem very well made; it clearly takes about ten times longer (than the typical life of the crappy external parts) for the working parts of the hub to wear out or break. Plenty of such hubs are scrapped because the mean time to failure (on hard working bikes that see any real weather) of the external parts is too short for folk to be bothered with.

 I have a scheme for conversion of such 5s and 7s hubs to use two toggle chains (one each end of the hub, a bit like they used to use many years ago)  and two 3s shifters instead; this conversion will be both more reliable and the (external) parts will be continue to be available.

I think there are such things as pattern shifters for the traditional 3s torpedo hubs; these are (IME) complete rubbish, but may continue to be available. Whilst a standard SA trigger won't always work a SRAM 3s hub OK some of the more recent SA 3s shifters have a slight different cable pull and may work better with SRAM 3s hubs.

cheers

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #3 on: 14 May, 2018, 07:32:20 pm »
But a Sachs 3s shifter will work an SA AW hub (as several on here know, including me - although mine is the stem-mount shifter from the 3x2 Torpedo system, which is crap because someone decided to control a coaster brake through a spring-loaded dangly thing).

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #4 on: 14 May, 2018, 07:39:05 pm »
But a Sachs 3s shifter will work an SA AW hub.....

yup, but the converse is not in any way assured.

cheers

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #5 on: 14 May, 2018, 07:45:27 pm »
Does that include the Automatix hub as well?
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #6 on: 14 May, 2018, 07:56:48 pm »
Does that include the Automatix hub as well?

yes, if you want a new one buy it now, there won't be any more.

cheers

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #7 on: 14 May, 2018, 08:06:25 pm »
I already have one, but I was thinking of the future and spares and stuff...

With regard to the comments about the clickbox, yes it was vulnerable, but SRAM did provide a guard for it and it did make wheel removal very simple. I quite liked my S7.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #8 on: 14 May, 2018, 08:37:59 pm »
I already have one, but I was thinking of the future and spares and stuff...

With regard to the comments about the clickbox, yes it was vulnerable, but SRAM did provide a guard for it and it did make wheel removal very simple. I quite liked my S7.

I've been looking for a SRAM clickbox guard for months without luck.  Any suggestions gratefully received!

BTW when I heard they were stopping production a while back I bought spares for my 3-speed including clickboxes, pins and a complete hub.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #9 on: 14 May, 2018, 08:56:21 pm »
I've been looking for a SRAM clickbox guard for months without luck.  Any suggestions gratefully received!
Tax-dodging bunch, but: https://www.amazon.de/Fahrrad-Schutzb%C3%BCgel-Clickbox-SRAM-schwarz/dp/B01985LIP8
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #10 on: 14 May, 2018, 08:59:56 pm »
I've got a Dual Drive on my trike. The trike was second-hand when I bought it so I didn't spec it from new.

Due to having 27 gears on my back wheel, I never use the triple chainset at the front.

I suppose that if/when the hub gears fail, I'll just get a conventional rear wheel and use the triple when I need it.

I don't want to grow old gracefully. I want to grow old disgracefully.

Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #11 on: 14 May, 2018, 09:18:15 pm »
I've been looking for a SRAM clickbox guard for months without luck.  Any suggestions gratefully received!
Tax-dodging bunch, but: https://www.amazon.de/Fahrrad-Schutzb%C3%BCgel-Clickbox-SRAM-schwarz/dp/B01985LIP8

Good find but won't deliver to UK sadly.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #13 on: 15 May, 2018, 10:08:44 am »
Das Zweirad in Germany still has some spares.

The old T3 as used on the Brompton L3 has a tendency to break its clutch key, immobilising the bike.  If you can't get this £1 spare part you'll be mightily upset.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.


Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #15 on: 15 May, 2018, 10:26:52 am »
if push comes to shove you can usually adapt and overcome; e.g. I have replaced some SRAM/Sachs toggle keys (and toggles) with modified SA parts.  The 'old' SA AW toggle key is not hard steel (so can be filed easily) and is usually a little larger than the equivalent Sachs part.

BTW toggle key breakage (in many hubs) can arise through poor shifting technique; the mantra that 'you can shift whilst stationary and it is a good idea to shift whilst the pedals are not moving' is of course a half-truth at best. In some hubs shifting from 2 to 1 thusly can turn baulky and it is easy enough to overload the toggle key if you are clumsy.

BTW there are multiple issues with 5s and 7s clickboxes/pushrods, of which accidental damage is probably the least.  They break or stop working for many different (mostly stupid) reasons. Some clickboxes can be disassembled, but others are riveted together; once the water gets into them, that is it, pretty much.  There are also multiple versions of the clickbox (at least three for the 5s hubs, for example, not all of which require the same cable setting) so it is a good idea to buy the shifter and the clickbox together. This also spares you from having to fit a new cable in the crappy shifter, which can also go wrong (of course.... ::-)).

cheers

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: All SRAM hub gear production discontinued
« Reply #16 on: 15 May, 2018, 10:43:29 am »
But a Sachs 3s shifter will work an SA AW hub.....

yup, but the converse is not in any way assured.

cheers
The plastic Brompton shifter works on either.  How optimally, is another question!
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.