Ken Rogers trike axle bearing question

[Zipperhead]

I've posted this in here as it's so specific to trikes.

n+1 has occurred again and we now have a Ken Rogers trike (as well as my Longstaff)

It's one careful lady owner who has hardly used it, so wear isn't a problem. She had it serviced a while back by someone who wasn't familiar with trikes, so that may have caused the problem, or it may not be a problem at all.

It's one wheel drive and the left (driven) wheel has a lot of side to side play in the axle. Is this intentional or can I adjust it out?

To adjust the bearings, do I just remove the wheel, undo the lock ring on the end of the axle and then use a pin spanner to tighten the cup?

[gordon taylor]

Yes, I think so.
I have a 2WD Rogers and both axles are just like long bottom brackets with BB shells, ball bearings and lockrings. I was told to do mine up tight.

My Rogers handles like a pig compared to my Longstaff.
I'd be interested to know what yours is like.

[border-rider]

There's a cup'n'cone arrangement at both ends of the drive shaft, if it's like mine.  The one behind the freewheel can be accessed by taking the freewheel carrier off (which is easy)

[Ian H]

There's a cup'n'cone arrangement at both ends of the drive shaft, if it's like mine.  The one behind the freewheel can be accessed by taking the freewheel carrier off (which is easy)

Like an old-style bottom bracket in fact. I think the cups are identical.

Edit: also means it needs occasional greasing.

[Zipperhead]

My Rogers handles like a pig compared to my Longstaff.
I'd be interested to know what yours is like.

Well I haven't ridden it yet - I bought it for PGTips. Due to train delays yesterday it was the start of the rush hour by the time we started for home from the City, and he made the journey with a commendable lack of screaming.

Mind you, after we got back and road along the bumpy track to the garage he did say that he wouldn't like to cycle along a tow path on it.

I'll try and have a play on it tomorrow.

[Zipperhead]

Like an old-style bottom bracket in fact. I think the cups are identical.

Edit: also means it needs occasional greasing.

It does look like it they might be BB cups. I'll have to stop off on the way home tonight, I've only had cartridge and (horrible) external BB's for years so I need to get a pin spanner.

[border-rider]

Mind you, after we got back and road along the bumpy track to the garage he did say that he wouldn't like to cycle along a tow path on it.

Mmm.  I can see that.

I've got a bit more confident on mine, but it last week dumped me unexpectedly in a bush halfway down our farm track.  Normally this would be fine as there is no-one around, but that happened to be the day the farmer was putting sheep in the fields.  I had an appreciative audience, not all of them white and fluffy

[tatanab]

Cups are bottom bracket cups.  Depending how tight they are you might get away with round nosed pliers instead of buying a pin spanner, perhaps even the points of scissors.  Something else you could use is cir-clip pliers which you need to strip your Longstaff anyway.  So, if you have nothing, buy some cir-clip pliers.

When you adjust the cups it is generally better to run them a bit tighter than you might think is right.  This is an attempt to stop the knocking you would hear with a slightly loose axle or water in the bearings.

[Ian H]

Yes, I think so.
I have a 2WD Rogers and both axles are just like long bottom brackets with BB shells, ball bearings and lockrings. I was told to do mine up tight.

My Rogers handles like a pig compared to my Longstaff.
I'd be interested to know what yours is like.

KR just put axles on bought-in part-built frames quite a lot of the time.  They weren't designed as trikes. I believe later ones are better. There was more than a slight price difference between Longstaff and Rogers.

[Sigurd Mudtracker]

Mine uses cups with flats rather than pin holes - you can adjust them with a 16mm cone spanner with the wheels in situ.  There's an old fashioned bottom bracket lockring holding things in place.  Due to at least one experience of the cups unscrewing themselves in the course of a ride, I've taken to carrying a BB lockring tool and a cone spanner on longer trips.

[Zipperhead]

This one turned out to be flats as well, although the inner ones need a pin spanner. Not 16mm though, much bigger, something about an inch.

I took the wheel off and the cup off, cleaned & greased it and put it back together.

I had a spin on it round the garages, it's a cracking little trike. It handles really well.

[drossall]

Whilst we are talking axles on Ken Rogers trikes, tatanab sang the praises of a Trykit upgrade axle to me once in an email. I took a rear wheel off for the first time today* and, together with this thread, that made me realise how it all actually works (elongated BB system etc.)

It's therefore dawning on me that a Trykit axle is probably just something that I can fit myself into the existing Rogers axle shell, rather than having to have a complete new assembly brazed on?

Will have to wait for a mega-important birthday or something though, at that price. More than I paid for the trike

*Good job I had a three-leg puller or would never have shifted it...

[tatanab]

a Trykit axle is probably just something that I can fit myself into the existing Rogers axle shell, rather than having to have a complete new assembly brazed on?

No you cannot.

The Trykit TWD axle conversion fits using your existing axle of any manufacturer.  It uses the existing axle end housings but not a cup and cone system.  It uses standard  bearing units available from bearing factors in your high street.

You cannot do the first installation yourself because each trike is a bit different and any spacer build up in the centre is different to cope with this.  The axle end housings are modified to accept the new bearings (I am not sure what he does here for a Rogers, I keep mine OWD).  Because the new part is TWD, axle alignment is more important so alignment of axle halves is checked.  Having had the work done, future maintenance etc is very easy.

If you don't want all this fuss and want to stay OWD, the recommendation is to buy a cassette carrier and redesigned gear hanger from Trykit so that you can use cassettes instead of blocks and so that indexing will work much better.

In short, a TWD coversion should not be attempted at home even though it requires no brazing.  

[Regulator]

Will one be looking to dispose of a surplus trike? 

[drossall]

Who, me? No, sorry, no such thoughts, only of upgrades

It was thirty years between first thinking I'd like to try one and being able to get this one, so not going back now. Built two new rear wheels yesterday to match the front one I had done previously, calliper brake upgraded, so 2WD axle is the obvious next step...

[border-rider]

I'm tempted by the 2WD conversion for my newer trike, I must say

 

[Regulator]

Who, me? No, sorry, no such thoughts, only of upgrades

It was thirty years between first thinking I'd like to try one and being able to get this one, so not going back now. Built two new rear wheels yesterday to match the front one I had done previously, calliper brake upgraded, so 2WD axle is the obvious next step...

Sorry - I meant Zipper...

I have been lusting after his Longstaff (ooerr missus  ) for ages.

[matthew]

Well I haven't ridden it yet - I bought it for PGTips. Due to train delays yesterday it was the start of the rush hour by the time we started for home from the City, and he made the journey with a commendable lack of screaming.

Reg

I think you are out of luck. Looks like this trike is intended for Master Tips.

[Regulator]

Well I haven't ridden it yet - I bought it for PGTips. Due to train delays yesterday it was the start of the rush hour by the time we started for home from the City, and he made the journey with a commendable lack of screaming.

Reg

I think you are out of luck. Looks like this trike is intended for Master Tips.

Damn!   

[Zipperhead]

Indeed, don't get your hopes up yet!

Still, when you're next in Londinium, I'm sure he'd let you try it, it's really nice to ride.

[drossall]

My Rogers handles like a pig compared to my Longstaff.

Just speculation, but do wheels affect this? Does anyone know what does affect handling?

I built new rear wheels on Sunday. The old ones were quite slack and I made sure, of course, that the new ones were properly tensioned. Riding out to watch the club 25 last night, I felt more comfortable and even tried getting out of the saddle for some proper cornering.

Could be just coincidence though

[tatanab]

My Rogers handles like a pig compared to my Longstaff.

A matter of what you are used to I suppose.  The Rogers is likely to be an inch or more shorter in the back.  I have no problems switching between the two.

Just speculation, but do wheels affect this? Does anyone know what does affect handling?  I built new rear wheels on Sunday. The old ones were quite slack and I made sure, of course, that the new ones were properly tensioned. Riding out to watch the club 25 last night, I felt more comfortable and even tried getting out of the saddle for some proper cornering.

Slack wheels are just noisy in corners  as spokes rattle as they go looser every rev.   Only talking about rear wheels of course; the front needs to be taut to stop the rim deflecting in the corner and touching barke blocks.  I suspect it is just coincidence that you feel better about cornering on rebuilt wheels, or perhaps growing confidence.

[Zipperhead]

Could the centre of gravity be lower on the Longstaff?

Although my Longstaff is larger than PGTip's Ken Rogers, the bottom bracket is lower, presumably to get the centre of gravity as low as possible.