Author Topic: [HAMR] New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1  (Read 167627 times)

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #525 on: 21 January, 2016, 12:37:20 pm »
I'm still intrigued by the Guinness reference; it would now appear that he already had Guinness validating the attempt before he approached UMCA. Assuming that's for real (and, as his Week and Month 'records' have still not appeared on the Guinness site, I have my doubts), why bother with UMCA?

Yeah, interesting that. Maybe he assumed he would beat Kurt and Steve too and thus become the über world record holder?

As to Guinness, until we see some evidence they've verified his prior efforts I remain sceptical. It would however explain his apparent dismissal of UMCA in the correspondence that's been made public.
Embrace your inner Fred.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #526 on: 21 January, 2016, 12:41:19 pm »
As to Guinness, until we see some evidence they've verified his prior efforts I remain sceptical. It would however explain his apparent dismissal of UMCA in the correspondence that's been made public.

Yes, that's the only rational explanation of his current status.  I guess we'll soon find out how rational a person Bruce is!
The sound of one pannier flapping

Jack_P

  • It's just dicking about on bikes
    • Cycling hobo
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #527 on: 21 January, 2016, 01:02:59 pm »
FindMyFriends will not provide a retrievable track, just a current position for those who are connected via the Apple infrastructure and individually approved. It's a good system, but unsuitable as an independent verification of a GPS track, I believe. Strava Live Tracking applies to any Premium member, and can be seen by anyone following that athlete, so the security aspect is, at best, debatable (Bruce's Strava account is open to anyone to follow) - and, of course, it uses the same source as the recorded Strava track, so again is probably unacceptable.

The Strava's Active Friends feature should respect his privacy zones though, but it doesn't provide a log, and it's public (hmm, may not be, I can't find it and I'm not a Premium member). I don't think the source being Strava (the same as the recording tool) is a problem. It's the lack of the log that is the main problem (to UMCA) and the lack of privacy (for Bruce).

Bruce also seems unaware that he could turn the SPOT tracker off when not riding, and/or only turn it on when far enough away from his home. It's a bit of a faff though I agree and easily forgotten.

His rides on Garmin Connect are giving away his base location anyway (as he has no privacy zones setup there), but not in real time.

Regardless of the technology used Bruce doesn't want the public to be able to see where is in (near) real time, and I think the UMCA require that. So unless one budges they'll never be able to work it out.

I have a spot tracker on permanently, it turns off automatically once stationary for 30 mins and auto starts on the next movement. You can set privacy zones on tracking pages you set up, there is no need to involve Trackleaders. The batteries last for up to 2 weeks at 16 hrs a day activity. It's not that difficult.

I'm thinking why not just claim a Guinness world record without any proof it exists except Strava. The on line cycling press are willing to jump in and print it, the general public believe this as gospel and you claim you'r a world record holder.
Like this one http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/yorkshireman-richard-nutt-breaks-world-seven-day-distance-record-175854
Guinness don't seem to contest anyone's claims and their website is not the easiest to navigate to search for lists of record holders.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #528 on: 21 January, 2016, 01:14:24 pm »
The way to test this would be to concoct a 'record' and send out a press release.

Perhaps we could reverse-engineer the whole process by starting with the book and working backwards. We'll need a fightback from alcoholism, and a marital breakdown. Is a recovery from a near-fatal episode going too far?

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #529 on: 21 January, 2016, 01:18:36 pm »
Perhaps we could reverse-engineer the whole process by starting with the book and working backwards. We'll need a fightback from alcoholism, and a marital breakdown. Is a recovery from a near-fatal episode going too far?

Shall we ask Mr Smith?

 :facepalm:

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #530 on: 21 January, 2016, 01:25:18 pm »
There's always Bikey-Mikey. <non-excellence redacted>


Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #531 on: 21 January, 2016, 03:38:47 pm »
Mikey would make a pretty good candidate for some of these shorter records that Bruce has claimed. Seeing if the Audax community could get him through the week or month record would make a good story.

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #532 on: 21 January, 2016, 03:52:22 pm »
I have a spot tracker on permanently, it turns off automatically once stationary for 30 mins and auto starts on the next movement. You can set privacy zones on tracking pages you set up, there is no need to involve Trackleaders. The batteries last for up to 2 weeks at 16 hrs a day activity. It's not that difficult.

I'm thinking why not just claim a Guinness world record without any proof it exists except Strava. The on line cycling press are willing to jump in and print it, the general public believe this as gospel and you claim you'r a world record holder.
Like this one http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/yorkshireman-richard-nutt-breaks-world-seven-day-distance-record-175854
Guinness don't seem to contest anyone's claims and their website is not the easiest to navigate to search for lists of record holders.

Strangely there's some bloke called Dave Berkeley mentioned in another Strava-obsessed "challenge" story here. Apparently he's a "former elite racer": sounds spookily similar to "Bruce" Berkeley, don't you think? Are they by any chance related?

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/strava-long-distance-struggle-ends-richard-nutt-129002

Embrace your inner Fred.

"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #534 on: 21 January, 2016, 04:00:10 pm »
Kurt Searvogel replied on Bruce's Facebook Comment.

Keep going with your attempt! I'm sorry that you couldn't work it out with UMCA as I was the person that asked you to do this and you tried. Thank you. As stated in the UMCA announcement the phone app was a problem since it doesn't provide a history to compare against your garmin which is used to verify your route. Your explanation of fear for safety or property is not really valid, both Steven Abraham and I did it without a problem. People will watch out for you if you let them. BTW how are you able to keep up with all of Guiness's reporting requirements, or were you able to get them to modify them for the month record. Also you should see if you can concurrently do a new month record because you will be averaging 1000K more each month than your current record, no reason not to put the miles to work twice. I do fear that if you felt these costs were high and didn't have time to handle these tasks or have someone to help you do these things that you neither have the funds nor support necessary to complete this challenge. I believe there are enough people out there who would support you and help you raise funds. At some point you need to let go of your pride and let people help you. It may have been the hardest part of HAMR for me.

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #535 on: 21 January, 2016, 04:06:12 pm »
Kurt Searvogel replied on Bruce's Facebook Comment.

Keep going with your attempt! I'm sorry that you couldn't work it out with UMCA as I was the person that asked you to do this and you tried. Thank you. As stated in the UMCA announcement the phone app was a problem since it doesn't provide a history to compare against your garmin which is used to verify your route. Your explanation of fear for safety or property is not really valid, both Steven Abraham and I did it without a problem. People will watch out for you if you let them. BTW how are you able to keep up with all of Guiness's reporting requirements, or were you able to get them to modify them for the month record. Also you should see if you can concurrently do a new month record because you will be averaging 1000K more each month than your current record, no reason not to put the miles to work twice. I do fear that if you felt these costs were high and didn't have time to handle these tasks or have someone to help you do these things that you neither have the funds nor support necessary to complete this challenge. I believe there are enough people out there who would support you and help you raise funds. At some point you need to let go of your pride and let people help you. It may have been the hardest part of HAMR for me.

Well said Kurt!   :)

If nothing else, Mr. Berkeley needs to get his verification process sorted to avoid public speculation about cheating*, or just failing to get an official record...

* - Not that I believe he is, but he's not the only cyclist posting incredible mileages on Strava, it's just not a credible form of verification.
Embrace your inner Fred.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #536 on: 21 January, 2016, 04:24:15 pm »
The more I hear of Kurt the more I'm pleased he got the record.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #537 on: 21 January, 2016, 04:24:58 pm »
I agree with Kurt.
Getting there...

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #538 on: 21 January, 2016, 04:30:17 pm »
Kurt Searvogel replied on Bruce's Facebook Comment.

Excellent comment by Kurt. Highlighting the problem while remaining supportive. The more I read here and elsewhere, the more it seems his was the attempt approaching the record with the highest level of organization and professionalism (much credit deserved by Alicia for that), and the result speaks for itself.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #539 on: 21 January, 2016, 04:43:24 pm »
Kurt is a good egg. As he is the current expert, he should be listened to!
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #540 on: 21 January, 2016, 04:58:50 pm »
Forgive me for arriving late to the party... but I am completely mystified.

Berkeley claims to have the one-month Guinness distance record. But Janet Davison holds it. She did her record last summer, six months or so AFTER Berkeley claims to have done it... and Guiness appears to have verified her record in a timely fashion, but not Berkeley's.

So... he DOES NOT have the Guinness one-month record, contrary to what both he and some cycling blogs have claimed. If he did, Guinness would have certified it, no?

And if they did not certify his one-month record, how can he possibly get his year record certified if he is only verifying it with Strava uploads and FindMe?

Can anyone list the exact requirements for Guinness certification? There seems to be lots of conjecture re: what they require. What were the rules on Janet Davison?

But this is all quite mad. Berkeley appears to be riding off in all directions without getting his house in order first and I'm wondering what the point is in even following him.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #541 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:04:13 pm »
He claims to have the Guinness one month and one week records, pours scorn on certification records, but it happy to claim he has a record when he knows perfectly well that his one week and one month distances have been exceeded by others (RAAM riders and Kurt, for example).

I'm rapidly losing respect for him. As you've pointed out, there is no evidence on the Guinness records of bruce holding any records. Bruce is now stating on his fb page that he's doing this as a Guinness record attempt - but there is no evidence that he has the rules or is following them. As we know from Kasja, one of Guinness's rules is 'no drafting'; bruce is making full use of drafting.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #542 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:10:11 pm »
I wondered who would have ratified Ossie Nicholson's record in Australia. I turned up a story of a young woman who got the 7 day record in 1940, which she still holds.

Quote
On Sunday 17 March 1940 Hawkins, only 12 months into her cycling career, set the 'World Seven Days record' in Perth, having ridden 1,546.8 miles (2,489.3 km) to surpass the previous best (1,438.4 miles (2,314.9 km)) set by Unthank. Hawkins also broke the West Australian records for one, two, three, four, five, six and seven days, plus surpassing the Australian professional men's record of Ossie Nicholson. Hawkins completed the ride in front of a huge crowd outside the Malvern Star headquarters in Hay Street and was greeted by H. Millington, Minister for Works. Unthank sent her public messages of congratulations.

She went on to ride for a year record.

Quote
In February 1942 Hawkins completed a 45,402.8 miles (73,068.7 km) ride in Perth, despite having missed seven weeks' riding because of injury, illness, and her mother's death. The press had reported throughout her 12-month campaign, comparing her milestones to those of the world record set by L.I. Billie Dovey, the English Keep Fit Girl. To wit, "after ten weeks [Hawkins] had recorded 7,302.8 miles (11,752.7 km) compared to Mrs Dovey's 5,238 miles (8,430 km)." Hawkins surpassed Dovey's record 29,899 miles (48,118 km) after 36 weeks, three days, one hour and 20 minutes and then raised the record by another 15,503 miles (24,950 km) over the final 16 weeks. The endeavour was sponsored by Bruce Small Pty Ltd. [3] [6] [7] [8]

Dénouement[edit]
One week after Hawkins completed her ride, the officials refused to recognise the record due to 'irregularities in the log sheets'.[9]

Marion Stell wrote in her book Half the Race, A history of Australian women in sport of the anonymous reality that followed the excitement of the record.

One woman oblivious to part of the war was cyclist Pat Hawkins of Perth. From February 1941 to February 1942 Hawkins made an attempt on the year's cycling world record of 29 603 miles held by Mrs Bill Dovey of England. Hawkins was only off the road for seven weeks of the twelve-month period and claimed a distance of 45,402 miles. But one week later supervising officials found what they called 'certain irregularities in Miss Hawkin's log sheets' and refused to recognise the record. One wonders if she ever rode a bicycle again.[10]
Australia did not appear to dwell on the loss of the record, nor even mention it; only a couple of newspapers appear to have referred to it: a single paragraph in the Army News of Darwin[9] while The Cairns Post stated that A signed statement admitting the irregularities has been handed to the committee and sponsors of the effort by Miss Hawkins.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Hawkins_(cyclist)

There's a ready made story there for somebody.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #543 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:20:15 pm »
Bruce should suck it up, accept some donations, buy a SPOT tracker, go back to the UMCA and get back in to HAMR. I can't see a reason why the UMCA wouldn't have him back as long as he follows the rules, they want him to comply. They might even agree to accepting his current January rides on the basis that all future rides can be confirmed against the live tracking log, you never know.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #544 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:25:08 pm »
Bruce is in a fairly strong position, I assume the UMCA and Kurt would like the media interest to continue. That means either Steve or Bruce have to carry on. Steve is already within the fold, and whatever happens, will finish by August.
That leaves Bruce carrying the banner, and keeping the interest warm for Alicia's book.

red marley

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #545 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:29:44 pm »
Can anyone list the exact requirements for Guinness certification? There seems to be lots of conjecture re: what they require. What were the rules on Janet Davison?

I'm not aware of the current conditions required by Guinness being published by them anywhere.  But here are a couple of excerpts from Janet Davison's blog in July last year:

Quote from: Janet Davison
In some ways it isn’t so surprising that Guinness who administer the world records take this seriously.  After all, the whole world record concept would lose credibility if it was possible to cheat.  The main evidence I have to provide is a file containing my route downloaded from my Garmin (cycling GPS) and converted into a standard file format.  This is absolutely essential, so to ensure I can comply with this I take with me a second Garmin and have access to a third at home if one of the two Garmins fail.  This proves where the GPS has been, but this could be me being driven round in a car!  To be certain I am cycling I provide video and photographic evidence of me with my bike from various points on the route such as town signs.  I also have to keep an old fashioned paper log in which people I meet on the way sign to confirm they have seen me cycling.  This is why you will see from previous blogs I am referencing various bike shops and other businesses I have visited.  I video all of these encounters, to provide confirmatory evidence.  I have also got kind neighbours who are videoing/photographing me setting off and returning every day.
I have to compile my own log of where I have been and who I have met so that if questioned I can personally substantiate where I have been and who I have met on every day.  This needs to be absolutely consistent with all my other records.
It all takes me about an hour every night to compile the daily evidence and load it onto Dropbox, then do another backup.  This allows my two independent scrutineers to check the evidence.  At the end of the ride they will need to confirm the authenticity of my record claim.  Everything then gets submitted to Guinness who will conduct their own review of the evidence for the record, checking that I have complied with the rules (more on that in a later blog) and the evidence backs up the record claim.  This review is likely to take a few months, and no doubt they will contact some of the people who have signed my logbook.
Whilst compiling the evidence is a chore, especially when I would prefer to be cycling or sleeping, I am pleased this is taken seriously.  I must admit to a little paranoia about failing to collect sufficient evidence or forgetting to switch on my Garmin when I set off.  I think the greatest risk of me having an accident at the moment is when I'm videoing myself whilst I'm cycling.

Quote from: Janet Davison
Apart from the need to collect evidence to authenticate my record that I described in a previous blog, there are a few rules that Guinness require me to comply with.  Some are obvious others less so.
I am not allowed to slipstream or get any other physical aid from anyone else.  This is pretty obvious when you think about it.  I could simply have a team of ‘lead cyclists’ and sit on their back wheel all day.  Slipstreaming requires about 20% less effort than being the lead cyclist.  It is the reason breakaways in bike races such as the Tour succeed so rarely.  So when I am riding with my super domestique he is hardly putting in any effort and I am doing all the work.
I have to start and finish the event at the same height.  In other words I can’t go to the top of a mountain every morning and coast down for 20km or so, and repeat this numerous times in the day and every day.  For me this really means I have to start and end the ride at home to avoid getting caught out with an overall net downhill ride.
I have to use the same bike throughout the attempt.  I can only change bikes if I provide photographic and video evidence that the bike is not rideable.  I can replace components on the bike at any stage, so this really means using the same frame.  I must admit I am not too sure of the reason for this, but who am I to argue?
I have to get the written authority from Guinness in advance if I intend to get sponsorship or provide advertising for any other alcoholic brand.  Obvious really!

These seem consistent with what Kajsa has to do to comply with Guinness and the assumptions made here on their requirements.  Note also the requirement to start each segment at the same elevation as the end of the previous day, not necessarily the same location, so that does at least allow some hops between (some) countries.

It seems clear that Bruce currently falls foul of at least a couple of the requirements:

Not drafting
Written authority in advance in order to use sponsors

And possibly others in relation to extra documentation of his daily progress.

If he thinks its a faff to pay the $30 UMCA entry fee or use a Spot, he's going to have fun with the Guinness requirements.


Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #546 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:44:42 pm »
The message from Janet implied it was only written permission for sponsorship from alcohol brands, so it's probably only the drafting and extra documentation that are a problem.

red marley

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #547 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:47:59 pm »
Ah, you're probably right. I parsed that sentence as meaning 'get sponsorship' or 'advertising for an alcoholic brand'. But your interpretation makes more sense.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #548 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:48:40 pm »
Bruce is an ex-Elite racer, as he keeps telling us. Bluffing is a big part of the job description. He's no more ratified by Guinness than he is Eddy Merckx

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #549 on: 21 January, 2016, 05:51:01 pm »
That's really interesting, Jo. So, presumably, Berkeley has all this evidence of his Week and Month record efforts, too...? It'd be interesting to see that. Anyone seen any evidence that he got these verification videos, photos and witness signatures?