taking the lane

[Domestique]

If someone does a close pass then says "You're too far out!" it's admitting a punishment pass.

Exactly. Had a couple of those.

[red marley]

This is what you get when media-savvy Jeremy "just a joke" Clarkson stirs up the bottom dwelling creatures from the other half of the internet:

http://hbjcyclist.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/thanks-jeremy/

[Jaded]

Sounds like a story for The Times - the injured party should contact them as part of their safer cities campaign.

[hellymedic]

That is excellent.  Should be shown on TV.

Filmed in North Finchley, so close to home...

[spindrift]

reminded me of that Living Doll documentary.

[Martin]

This is what you get when media-savvy Jeremy "just a joke" Clarkson stirs up the bottom dwelling creatures from the other half of the internet:

http://hbjcyclist.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/thanks-jeremy/

(shrugs) exactly and the whole point of the OP; use primary sparingly & only when appropriate, unless you really do want to start an all out war against these twunts (which can only result in us coming off worse)

[jsabine]

This is what you get when media-savvy Jeremy "just a joke" Clarkson stirs up the bottom dwelling creatures from the other half of the internet:

http://hbjcyclist.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/thanks-jeremy/

(shrugs) exactly and the whole point of the OP; use primary sparingly & only when appropriate, unless you really do want to start an all out war against these twunts (which can only result in us coming off worse)

Even leaving aside the account of the incident from the cyclist's POV posted above, do you think that the approach to a junction is an inappropriate place to be in primary?

To use Clarkson's phrase, I was a middle of the road point maker yesterday. I was out with friends: someone was kind enough to pull away from lights very slowly to allow all four of us to turn right in front of her into a minor road. The (black) van driver behind her took exception to this as he was turning too - blaring of horn, revving of engine, shouting of abuse as he passed the guy behind me. I moved to the right of the lane, and stayed there for about a hundred yards.

Making a point? Possibly. Stopping him overtaking me and the two in front of me in a potentially dangerous way, definitely. There was oncoming traffic, and he'd clipped the guy behind me with his wing mirror during that overtake. A car,a van and a bike would all fit across the road, but without much room between them.

Surprisingly little revving or hooting once it was obvious I wasn't pulling back in (not
before a gap in the oncoming traffic anyway), but the passenger made it clear he thought I was a wanker when they did pass.

(Oh, for the avoidance of doubt, black van as opposed to white van. Don't care about the driver.)

[Martin]

This is what you get when media-savvy Jeremy "just a joke" Clarkson stirs up the bottom dwelling creatures from the other half of the internet:

http://hbjcyclist.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/thanks-jeremy/

(shrugs) exactly and the whole point of the OP; use primary sparingly & only when appropriate, unless you really do want to start an all out war against these twunts (which can only result in us coming off worse)

Even leaving aside the account of the incident from the cyclist's POV posted above, do you think that the approach to a junction is an inappropriate place to be in primary?

No I just think there are some real knobs out there in cars and I fear for our safety having to use the same roads as them sometimes

[red marley]

(shrugs) exactly and the whole point of the OP; use primary sparingly & only when appropriate [...]

Your implication there is that holding the lane in front of a zebra crossing prior to a right turn is somehow not appropriate. Rule 191 is unambiguous here  - there was no opportunity to overtake before that junction.

I know 'victim blaming' has become a well-used phrase recently, but the idea that because fuming inadequates like JC and his bottom crawling minions are out there somehow means the cyclist is to blame really stinks.

[Martin]

err no; my post was in response to the stupid comments on Facebook; seriously I'm not interested in starting a war of words with other cyclists, far less a war of road users with idiots driving a ton of metal;

you all want to prove a point go right ahead

[Jaded]

The alternate route is to give up the right to be there and become subservient to drivers whatever the circumstance.

Of course, it is entirely possible that behaviour like Clarkson's is modified by increasing numbers of cyclists meekly giving up road space to him whenever he wants it.

[Biggsy]

Martin,  Do you think the cyclist in Clarkson's picture was wise to be in the middle of the lane at that point or not?  Yes or no?

(I say yes).

[Martin]

Martin,  Do you think the cyclist in Clarkson's picture was wise to be in the middle of the lane at that point or not?  Yes or no?

(I say yes).

I don't actually care; I was posting in response to the knobs on Facebook

I'm going to have to walk away from this thread as I'm dealing with people on here whose concept of road use seems inherantly different to mine

[red marley]

But Martin, I am genuinely perplexed about what your views are on such road use. You say your comments are in response to the Twitter trolling, and I think we all agree about the unacceptability of their behaviour. I think all here also agree that holding primary in all circumstances is also unacceptable behaviour. So what is it that you disagree with, because every specific example of actual road behaviour discussed on this thread, we seem to be in agreement on?

[vorsprung]

Martin,  Do you think the cyclist in Clarkson's picture was wise to be in the middle of the lane at that point or not?  Yes or no?

(I say yes).

Maybe he was turning right
There is no context with this photo other than what Clarkson said in his next tweet.  Which we can't take on face value as he is trolling
Clarkson is well known for his bias use of the media.  In this case it's clear that he is trolling

[red marley]

He was turning right - see Spindrift's post that includes an extended quote from the rider in question.

[Biggsy]

Martin,  You care about the subject, and the Clarkson example is still a good opportunity to be more specific, regardless of what you were responding to previously.  I don't know how your concept of road use differs from anyone else's here.  You're entitled to your opinion, whatever it is, and shouldn't feel embarrassed to explain it.

[Biggsy]

Maybe he was turning right
There is no context with this photo other than what Clarkson said in his next tweet.  Which we can't take on face value as he is trolling
Clarkson is well known for his bias use of the media.  In this case it's clear that he is trolling

Never mind about Clarkson for a moment.  The picture by itself is handy.

[Pickled Onion]

No I just think there are some real knobs out there in cars and I fear for our safety having to use the same roads as them sometimes

No-one is going to argue with that, yes there are a few and anyone who's cycled much will have come across some with the attitude shown in that twittering.

However, they are a tiny minority, and an even tinier number will ever do anything silly. In comparison, there are an awful lot of drivers who do not know how to drive very well. Take the situation in that picture. Approaching a junction like that with a range rover behind you, you can either ride centrally (having indicated your intention in good time) which will piss off maybe 1 in 100 drivers, or you can ride on the left and be guaranteed to be left hooked on at least one in ten ocassions.

The point is, riding centrally in such a circumstance can irritate a few people who don't understand why, but for one of them to knock you off would be deliberate and extremely rare. Wheras leaving ambiguity will get you knocked off by someone simply not paying attention.

[Regulator]

Jeremy ClarksonVerified account
‏@JeremyClarkson
It's middle of the road point-makers like this who make car drivers so angry about cyclists.

https://twitter.com/JeremyClarkson/status/421676710107811841

Right then, from the horses mouth so to speak.......

I was riding home from work (this is one of my regular routes) down Sloane Avenue in Chelsea towards Sloane Square. As I approached this island at the junction of Ixworth Street, a Range Rover over took me, because he had to veer left to avoid hitting the island I got pushed owards the kerb.

There was no point to this pass as there was slow moving traffic a little bit further down the road.

Now I was pretty cheesed off with this and most of you will know a close pass starts pumping adrenaline. Sloane Ave is a nice flat road and it's really easy to keep up with the trafic and just past the island I was keeping pace with the Range Rover, the driver was looking in his N/S door mirror giving the 'stare'. I admit that I was fairly vocal at this point and shouted 'What? you f*****g c**k, f****** knobstick' not much of an insult but I was too riled up to think straight.

As we approached the junction with Cadogan Street the traffic started slowing so I moved to the middle of the road to overtake. As I passed the Range Rover the window started to come down and a few words were exchanged by both of us as I passed (I can't remember what, I don't think it was as bad as the first reaction though as I tend to calm down fairly quickly). I then kept up with the traffic for the rest of Sloane Ave, and then in to Draycott Place which is quite narrow for a two way road.

I was turning right at this junction to go down to Sloane Square, so as I moved off I was positioning myself for this.

At the junction I looked behind me and saw Jeremy Clarkson just pulling up behind me with his head and arm out of the window, holding his phone and shouting 'gotcha' and looking well smug with himself. He was driving, and there was nobody else in the car. I got off my bike and pushed it back to his car and pointed out that he was overtaking me going in to a hazard, and made me change course. He just kept shouting increduously 'you were four feet from the kerb, but you were four feet from the kerb, I'm a cyclist and you were four feet from the kerb!'.

After a couple of attempts to explain to him why I thought he was wrong I gave up as he just kept shouting, I then rode off. Throughout this exchange I stayed reasonably calm.

At no time did I abuse any other road user or pedestrian on my journey home.

What JC's pic on twitter doesn't show is how much traffic was about at the time. Before I stopped at the crossing the junction was busy, and the traffic was queing all the way down to Sloane Square. I was probably well on my way to Parliament Square by the time JC got through Sloane Square. The ambulance wasn't parked either, it was moving.

Thanks for your patience reading my longest ever post!

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/jeremy-clarkson-continues-to-be-a-moron/page/3

Something about this account doesn't ring true.... I can't quite put my finger on it but something is making alarm bells ring.

[red marley]

Peter Walker's blog on the matter is a good one. It makes the point that not only should we be able to take the lane for safety reasons, but there is a need to educate road users about taking the lane. That seems like a better strategy to me than giving up riding safely in order to avoid the possibility of encountering a bullying driver.

[clarion]

The Police say the incident is under investigation.

[Pickled Onion]

ooo.

What's the betting JC had "turned off the engine and got out of the car before taking the picture"?

[clarion]

In which case, he had not parked his car properly, legally and safely, and was creating an obstruction.

[SlowCoach]

In which case, he had not parked his car properly, legally and safely, and was creating an obstruction.

Definitely not - parked on zigzag lines before a pedestrian crossing if he claims he was parked...

Is this another Emma Way moment? Think before you tweet.