Hill Training

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

CET's highly scientific hill training method

1. Ride to an escarpment and climb to the top
2. Ride along the top until convenient descent down scarp slope is found, preferably into the wind
3. Descend
4. Ride along bottom of scarp until next hill up to the top is found
5. Ascend, riding at high cadence as far as possible unless gradient is too silly to sit down.  Short blasts out of the saddle are permitted.
6. Reach top with eyeballs about to hang out
7. Repeat steps 2 to 6 until either

a) You have run out of time
b) Your legs have turned to jelly and no longer obey motor instructions from the brain

8.  Ride home, preferably fitting in a  couple more gratuitous hills.
(note that if you have obeyed instruction 2 to the full you should at least have a tailwind so there is no excuse even if your legs have fallen off).

Pedants may ask what happens if you run out of escarpment.  Either

a)  Go find a longer escarpment or
b) Ride the route in reverse

[Vince]

The Dutch have a special place for that.

Google Maps

Spoil left from the flood protection gate was piled up to the east of the gate. There is a tarmacked road which goes directly up it to the viewing point (East to West) and then the curves around then hill back to the start. There is always a roadie bashing up, free wheeling down and repeating.

Street View

[jamesld8]

CET's highly scientific hill training method

1. Ride to an escarpment and climb to the top
2. Ride along the top until convenient descent down scarp slope is found, preferably into the wind
3. Descend
4. Ride along bottom of scarp until next hill up to the top is found
5. Ascend, riding at high cadence as far as possible unless gradient is too silly to sit down.  Short blasts out of the saddle are permitted.
6. Reach top with eyeballs about to hang out
7. Repeat steps 2 to 6 until either

a) You have run out of time
b) Your legs have turned to jelly and no longer obey motor instructions from the brain

8.  Ride home, preferably fitting in a  couple more gratuitous hills.
(note that if you have obeyed instruction 2 to the full you should at least have a tailwind so there is no excuse even if your legs have fallen off).

Pedants may ask what happens if you run out of escarpment.  Either

a)  Go find a longer escarpment or
b) Ride the route in reverse

Alternatively move to mid/ North -Wales, preferably near Dinas Mawddwy and get job in Bala----and enjoy daily commute via Bwlch Y Groes steep side  ....or not

[Ningishzidda]

I’d posted my reply, but retracted it.
I’ll repeat it.
Get on the train from Wolverhampton to Tywyn and ride back to Wolverhampton via the Cross Foxes and Mallwyd.

Don't forget to 'go round the Wrekin' and see 'The leaning tower of Bridgnorth' for a 200 DIY.

[quixoticgeek]

The Dutch have a special place for that.

Thanks for that, I was wondering where I might practice hill climbing on the bike in the Netherlands without having to go to the 3 country point every time...

Cheers

J

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I’d posted my reply, but retracted it.
I’ll repeat it.
Get on the train from Wolverhampton to Tywyn and ride back to Wolverhampton via the Cross Foxes and Mallwyd.

Don't forget to 'go round the Wrekin' and see 'The leaning tower of Bridgnorth' for a 200 DIY.

I'd stop at Caersws and do the Cambrian 4C permanent.  The only route I've done where the Devil's Staircase was relegated to third hardest climb (after the steep side of Bwlch y Groes and Aallt y Gwernant.  But the train fare is quite expensive

[LMT]

You don't need hills for hill training, anywhere where you can pedal between 4-5w/kg for 20 mins would be the same as pedalling up a hill.

[L CC]

That might be true on a bent, but on a d/f nothing replicates hills like hills do, and there's also a mental recalibration that takes place when you ride hills. Ask anyone who's moved to or from the flatlands.

[simonp]

It's all about inertia. Pushing a big gear on the flat is not the same as pushing a smaller gear up a hill, even at the same power output, because the rate of deceleration is very different.

[quixoticgeek]

That might be true on a bent, but on a d/f nothing replicates hills like hills do, and there's also a mental recalibration that takes place when you ride hills. Ask anyone who's moved to or from the flatlands.

Quite. I am in the process of trying to move to the Netherlands. I am also finding the idea of Audaxes really appealing. Given that the only hills are in Zuid-Limberg and I'm going to be in the Randstadt, they aren't really plausible... Neither is a 600k round trip to do hills in the Ardennes, at least not as a 2-3 times a week training exercise. Hence my curiosity about ways to train for hills, without actually having a hill to climb...

You don't need hills for hill training, anywhere where you can pedal between 4-5w/kg for 20 mins would be the same as pedalling up a hill.

Ok, I'm a complete newb to the whole training thing. What is 4-5W/kg ? Is that watts? that would be putting in 400-500W sustained for 20minutes. That's over half a horse power. And without a power meter, I'm not sure how I would go about measuring it.

J

[Vince]

Quite. I am in the process of trying to move to the Netherlands. I am also finding the idea of Audaxes really appealing. Given that the only hills are in Zuid-Limberg and I'm going to be in the Randstadt, they aren't really plausible... Neither is a 600k round trip to do hills in the Ardennes, at least not as a 2-3 times a week training exercise. Hence my curiosity about ways to train for hills, without actually having a hill to climb...

Which part of the Randstadt?

If in The Hague, you can ride from Scheveningen up to the water tower then then along the dunes cycle path to Wassenaar and Nordwijk for a lumpy ride.
Otherwise its the motorway bridges over the A4!
You should get in touch with Roffa OTP who is based in Rotterdam.

[LMT]

That might be true on a bent, but on a d/f nothing replicates hills like hills do, and there's also a mental recalibration that takes place when you ride hills. Ask anyone who's moved to or from the flatlands.

Quite. I am in the process of trying to move to the Netherlands. I am also finding the idea of Audaxes really appealing. Given that the only hills are in Zuid-Limberg and I'm going to be in the Randstadt, they aren't really plausible... Neither is a 600k round trip to do hills in the Ardennes, at least not as a 2-3 times a week training exercise. Hence my curiosity about ways to train for hills, without actually having a hill to climb...

You don't need hills for hill training, anywhere where you can pedal between 4-5w/kg for 20 mins would be the same as pedalling up a hill.

Ok, I'm a complete newb to the whole training thing. What is 4-5W/kg ? Is that watts? that would be putting in 400-500W sustained for 20minutes. That's over half a horse power. And without a power meter, I'm not sure how I would go about measuring it.

J

w/kg is watts per kilo, so 4-5 watts times your weight in kilos.

[chrisbainbridge]

Pedant alert
4-5 w/kg is 4-5 watts per kg.

Power in watts divided by weight in kg is between 4-5.

[Ningishzidda]

Pedant alert
4-5 w/kg is 4-5 watts per kg.

Power in watts divided by weight in kg is between 4-5.

Pedant alert.

4 -5 W/kg is 4 - 5 watts per kilogram.

 

[LMT]

<sniggers>

[Ningishzidda]

Considering the major component of required power to climb a hill is mass x g x sin theta per second, increasing the mass ( the ‘dead weight’ ) of the bicycle will simulate riding up a steeper hill.

Find a long shallow hill of 3 – 5 % and load the rack on your 40lb BSO with 20kg of weights discs.
As long as the vertical rise velocity is similar, or greater, you’re laughing.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

One of the toughest climbs I did last year had a maximum height of 29m.  It was on a half-drowned drumlin in Clew Bay in Ireland and reached that height in 100m from the sea.  Utterly desperate stuff.  CET Junior walked down it, which was probably advisable.  If I recall rightly from flying over it the Dutch coast has a band of sand dunes so hopefully someone has stuck some tarmac up and over one of those.

IMHO a big chunk of climbing big hills is mental, the ability to keep struggling for ever at a slow pace.  Flatlands are great for that whenever the wind is blowing hard.  The Dutch have never been short of good climbers - Steven Kruijswijk almost one this year's Giro except for an accident with a snowbank.  So its a matter of picking training that builds that mental toughness and leg strength.  My plan above works for me, but in the flatlands I would suggest riding for 2 hours with the wind and then chewing the handlebars back.   

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

You don't need hills for hill training, anywhere where you can pedal between 4-5w/kg for 20 mins would be the same as pedalling up a hill.

Being fast in hill country isn't just about going up hill also you have to descend well.  I have cycled with people who trained on turbos and stuff like that and they could climb very well but I soon discovered that after they had left me behind on the up (I was heavier than them by at least 10kg) I could catch them going down very easily because they were burning their brakes all the way down.   These were Pyrenean hills, the longest was 32km.

And mental strength is important.  I cycle in the Limousin and it's all hills and I get to the point where I can't even remember cycling up them, I just do it.  It's only when I am tired that the prospect is alarming.   

You can only train for hills by cycling up and down them and even then, all hills are a bit different.  Some hills you have the sun on your back, no breeze, no shade, others you find a snow storm at the top and have to descend whilst wet and freezing and still have to be able to brake for hairpins.

[jamesld8]

Hill (and general ) training

1. Buy a singlespeed 44x 18
2. Commute to work via a 30km + 300m ascent--each way, 2km avg 5% main climb plus bits   
3. Repeat after a days work

https://www.strava.com/activities/694649470

feel very knackered but it seems to be paying off on other riding   

https://www.strava.com/activities/706107098

realise why GEARS were invented 

[chrisbainbridge]

I remember that road well.  About 4 years ago i rode back from Llandrindod wells to Derby on my first solo 400.  About 10 at night I was passed on the hill just past Llandegley by a souped up Corsa with 4 lads in it.  I was expecting abuse but they slowed down and one of them offered me a tin of lager out of the front passenger window then roared off into the night!

[jamesld8]

I remember that road well.  About 4 years ago i rode back from Llandrindod wells to Derby on my first solo 400.  About 10 at night I was passed on the hill just past Llandegley by a souped up Corsa with 4 lads in it.  I was expecting abuse but they slowed down and one of them offered me a tin of lager out of the front passenger window then roared off into the night!

Brilliant --Welsh hospitality  It`s a right PITA that drag out of Llandegley, and then it dips down before Radnor Forest bends. It`s a section that often causes the annual Aber -Kington ride a lot of grief (and saddle sores no doubt too)

[davelodwig]

My approach to hill training.

1. Live in the Cotswold's.

Every bloody ride involves a sodding hill regardless of if I want it to or not and usually riding up a valley side to have to ride down it and back up the other one, I tell you who would live somewhere with 5 flipping valleys.