Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => The Dark Side => Topic started by: Krystine_M on 11 September, 2015, 06:47:23 am
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Hi Everyone,
Last night I was told I needed a flag fitted to my Fuego as car drivers could not see me when they overtake me. I was just wondering if anyone had any advice to deal with people who think a flag would make car drivers safer around me. I have a yellow cover over the bag on the rear and have cycled over 12,000 miles (2 1/2 years) without one and think it is unnecessary on the bike.
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Ask your would-be saviour when the last time was that they saw a low-slung sports car equipped with a flag. Then advise them that if they really have difficulty in seeing markings painted on the road - which are much lower than even the most stoating of recumbents - they should relinquish their driving licence forthwith. You are not the Head of State or a member of the Diplomatic Corps.
Or you could just kill them, and then have an ice cream.
Much of North America is infested with giant pickup trucks and SUVs but curiously no-one driving a normal car seems to feel the need to fly a flag from it. Except Mr Obambi, and possibly the Ruritanian Ambassador.
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Next time tell them that they passed to close and if they gave you room and passed wider they would have seen you.
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On the one hand tis good for the car behind the car behind you (sometimes) to be able to see and the flag movement can be very visible in certain conditions, on the other I have forgotten my flag and noticed no change in other road users behaviour.
Tis a bit like the other question which can never be definitively answered, what does a Dodo taste like :o
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I was with cycleman when his flags were stolen in Craven Arms while we ate lunch.
He didn't seem less visible and he was at exactly the same level of volume and rudeness if somebody offended his sense of space ;D
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What, Cycleman :o
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Further discussion here https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=87320.0
Until relatively recently my daughters cut a lower profile walking than I did on my recumbent - naturally we made them carry a flag at all times when walking out of doors....a saltire of course although being yellow and red 'The Lion Rampant' may have been a better choice.
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The response will depend on who is saying it I suppose.
If it is a driver casually abusing you at the roadside then asking them who exactly they are talking to if you are invisible might be a good start. If it is a friend, loved one or work colleague just ask them if they can see white lines and cats eyes.
I think there are situations where a flag can make you more visible, but whether they come up often enough to make it worth the hassle the rest of the time is a personal judgement. When I first got my trike I used one. I don't anymore.
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One driver in a black VW Golf screeched away from the lights after me once (me on an ICE 26) pulled alongside with his window open and screamed at me " I can't see you" the link between (what is left of) my brain and lip disappeared and I instinctively replied "Well open your f*****g eyes then", he got quite agitated :facepalm:
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My approach to this is use a flag.
It doesn't make me more visible (except in some edge cases - e.g. while filtering) - but it shuts people up.
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I rode flagless for years and got fed up with being advised I was invisible and needed a flag. I gave up with witty responses.
In the end I got a bit of carbon kite spar and some flouro gaffer tape and made a flag. I found the comments reduced and my commute easier plus I got more road room. It doesn't make me more visible but it does command more space which is probably helpful.
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My approach to this is use a flag.
It doesn't make me more visible (except in some edge cases - e.g. while filtering) - but it shuts people up.
Never bothered myself, people will still find something to whinge about - I've had assorted 'get on the cycle path' dickdom, but never anything to do with flags..friends/relatives that bring up visibility soon give up after 'x years and y 1000 miles and I get far wider overtakes than on an upright'..even if they're not entirely convinced it ends the argument :)
That said, I'm at a similar height to a feugo (speed machine/fujin), I might feel differently on a low ICE maybe, but I suspect not.
Aside from never feeling like it'd make the blindest bit of difference, having a flag is a) one more thing for some idiot to nick b) something for similiar idiot passenger to make a grab for on the way past. Tho' I was considering one for my (deferred - knee trouble) ridelondon outing, on the basis that some upwrong riders sem to be a little oblivious to there souuroundings, and probably more so if they think there's just things on the road of a similar height.
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I only started riding a recumbent bike last November - a Performer. Initially, I fitted a flag for my rides around the rural lanes around my home. However, it was soon apparent that flags upset horses and I took it down. I don't need a tonne of steel-shod hooves trying to sit on my seat when I'm already in residence.
So I took it down. I've always found, having covered well over 1000 miles, that vehicles give you plenty of room. Discussions elsewhere have concluded the same, largely because (it is thought) that drivers spot something odd in front and slow down and give you a wider berth than they might for a DF bike.
I have not yet had a close pass on the recumbent, but I have had a few on the DF - two this week!
I've not used a flag for months and I've had no problems - indeed I get noticed because when I mention to people in the village that I also ride a 'recumbent' and explain what it is lots of them have seen me on the road. So, the vision sticks.
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I might feel differently on a low ICE maybe, but I suspect not.
Quite so, rarely do I feel vulnerable on my ICE (seat on lowest recline as I am sure air flow over the mighty beer basket is better like that :facepalm:).
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What, Cycleman :o
Hard to believe isn't it? ;0
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Further to my earlier post on the subject (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=87320.msg1791136#msg1791136), I remember in my Speedmachine days getting really quite fed up with the number of people who told me I was very dangerous, on account of not having a flag and even though they* had seen me they were afraid that someone else might not. When I sold the bike and bought my altogether higher up and sitty-up Lightning, the comments stopped almost immediately. I actually think I can count on one hand the number of invisibility comments I've had.
While doing Pedal for Scotland last weekend several people, who asked me about the velomobile and should I not have a flag sticking up, seemed remarkably open to persuasion when I pointed out that on account of its being bright red and nine feet long, and necessitating the use in an extremely vehicular manner, the height was perhaps somewhat academic. Yet at the finish line, I had to sit for several long moments (and enlist a friendly second volunteer) to be handed my bottle of water. The nonplussed first volunteer who was actually standing less than three feet away completely missed me holding out my hand and looking directly up at him, by failing to look down at all.
* "You're strange and therefore dangerous so get off my road, but I'm faced with the fact that I did actually see you. My dichotomy and middle class Britishness nonetheless compels me to rant at you, albeit with slightly less vehemence."
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The nonplussed first volunteer who was actually standing less than three feet away completely missed me holding out my hand and looking directly up at him, by failing to look down at all.
What a little treasure :facepalm:
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Don't listen to that nobby quint, sweet and innocent me :demon:
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Don't listen to that nobby quint, sweet and innocent me :demon:
I can still remember the flags. Two Isle of Man ones. They reminded me of his little legs going round and round. ;D
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Trouble is I can picture them, all three of em :facepalm:
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I had this debate with someone I was talking about recumbents with recently. "Nah, traffic is too busy going WTF to not see you, while shouting that they can't see you usually".
I've finally got one of the teamleaders in my office to stop telling me how invisible Kim is on her bent by saying "So invisible that you saw her and felt you had to tell me all about it yeah?" about 6275456 times...
I do have a flag, but we're using it as an aerial for my FM comms system and Kim made me a skull and cross-spork flag. I don't think it makes me more visible on my Sprint.
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Character assassination ::-) :)
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Character assassination ::-) :)
Sings "Three wheels on my wagon (etc)" ;D
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Last night I was told I needed a flag fitted to my Fuego as car drivers could not see me when they overtake me. I was just wondering if anyone had any advice to deal with people who think a flag would make car drivers safer around me. I have a yellow cover over the bag on the rear and have cycled over 12,000 miles (2 1/2 years) without one and think it is unnecessary on the bike.
I agree with the majority opinion that mostly people are too busy going "WTF?" to not see you! However there is, perhaps, one situation in which a flag might be of some use. Specifically narrow single-track roads with hedges / bushes near the corners. It's possible that a flag might be seen above the plant-life whilst the rest of your recumbent might not. Whether this would result in the driver thinking "There's a flag, there must be something attached to it I'd better slow down / be ready to slow down" or just "I wonder what that piece of material is?" whilst they keep their foot hard on the accelerator is something I'm less sure about.
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The hedgerows round us neatly hide 'bents, uprights, urban tractors and much more.
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Summers day on a country road going out towards Charlbury, nice twisty road, loud engine noise coming toward us, MGB sideways on, part on verge rounds corner and luckily stays (just) on its side of the road. Doesn't stop, fortunately :facepalm:
Flags when it comes down to it are what you prefer, maybe they tell the unconvinced that you are trying to be seen, doubtless (like helmets) some people might give an instance of where it saved their life but in the end there is nothing that stops a complete idiot from parking on top of you when that is what fate decrees, I will do what I can to convince fate to smile benevolently on me but :o
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I wasn't sure where to post this... I felt "Interesting or unusual...", but this thread is clearly the best one because of the conversation I had with owner Peter.
Me: "So, I guess this answers the question of are you visible on a trike then?"
Peter: "You'd think so, but I recently had a car pull out in front of me from a side turning and the driver said, "Sorry I just didn't see you!"
!?!
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg53/shyumu/04_zps7i1flvnd.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/shyumu/media/04_zps7i1flvnd.jpg.html)
We then had a lovely chat about what it was like to ride. Fantastic looking machine.
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Not sure I would fancy tacking up a busy road though. He is going to get a lot of flak from drivers for doing that I would think.
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He said he doesn't tack, he pedals... I'm totally unclear how - but it isn't powered by only the wind. If the wind is facing him then he has to minimise his profile and pedal harder!
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It's a standard delta recumbent trike with a sail on top. The clever bit is the automagic cleat that lets go of the sheet when you apply the brakes.
http://whike.com/en/
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I se - if you look carefully there are pedals. But I do think it is a sail, not a sheet Kim.
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Sailing technical jargon makes computer techspeak look like Janet & John. I went sailing once with my friend Ariane, whose constant instructions to manipulate $OBJECT confused me no end until I twigged that $OBJECT is an encrypted word for "rope".
And then we were captured by Somali pirates and held hostage for three years.
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It's a standard delta recumbent trike with a sail on top. The clever bit is the automagic cleat that lets go of the sheet when you apply the brakes.
http://whike.com/en/
Yes please. I think one of the rigs from Solway Dory could equally well be fitted.to a.trike as.a.canoe...
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I don't think the sail drops, I think he just has to pedal harder into the wind. I suppose the boating equivalent would be mounting a rigid sail to a small motor boat. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. But he doesn't have to tack along the street.
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IIRC the sail can be slid off the mast relatively easily (there's a smaller sail that can be fitted for strong winds), but normally you'd just pedal into the wind and hope it turns round. Much like normal cycling, really.
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Both brake sets have a ‘park’ functon which allows them to be locked to prevent the Whike sailing when left without a rider.
So no 'We didn't mean to go to sea' incidents!
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Both brake sets have a ‘park’ functon which allows them to be locked to prevent the Whike sailing when left without a rider.
So no 'We didn't mean to go to sea' incidents!
Most trikes have some sort of parking brake arrangement, because gravity tends to make them wander off even without sailing capability.
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And when that happens, they can fall into the wrong hands and be held to ransome.
It's the oilskin sou'wester with the lump of pemmican in the pocket.
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ICE used to have a brilliant little pull out bit on a brake lever as a parking brake, I detest the disc drag/parking brake (thinks must try to remember to Google trike parking brakes) and the rim parking brake just marks the rim
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He should cycle wearing pirate gear though. At least he ought to have a pirate flag! That is the least he could do. Gong down the high street on a broad reach, with the bike on two wheels and the 'sheet' (or Kim-rope) in his teeth, he needs a tricorn, tatty coat and breeks. And an eyepatch. It is the only way to go if he is serious about this.
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My only experience of mixing sailing with cycling was having to shout "ready about" when cornering on a tandem trike.
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This thread needs more rower40, really.
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I had a 'Gybe-Oh' moment when I was younger.
Car towing a sailboat, with the mast laid out flat and protruding many metres behind the trailer.
Overtakes me on approach to tight RH bend.
Car and trailer have just passed me as he goes hard to starboard, but the trailing mast is still alongside me.
It sweeps to the left, in an uncontrolled gybe inches above my head.
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I wasn't sure where to post this... I felt "Interesting or unusual...", but this thread is clearly the best one because of the conversation I had with owner Peter.
Me: "So, I guess this answers the question of are you visible on a trike then?"
Peter: "You'd think so, but I recently had a car pull out in front of me from a side turning and the driver said, "Sorry I just didn't see you!"
!?!
(http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg53/shyumu/04_zps7i1flvnd.jpg) (http://s245.photobucket.com/user/shyumu/media/04_zps7i1flvnd.jpg.html)
We then had a lovely chat about what it was like to ride. Fantastic looking machine.
A certain gentleman from Little Thetford had one of those at Mildenhall a couple of years ago. I nearly departed the rally a few grand lighter....