Author Topic: Helicomatic Hub  (Read 2842 times)

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Helicomatic Hub
« on: 22 January, 2017, 06:49:58 pm »
Has anyone experience with these? I've read Sheldon's stuff which explains the pratfalls but would appreciate any hands on experience. I'm inclined to swap the hubs out for a pair of conventional 36 hole and give them back to the customer so he can flog them on...
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #1 on: 22 January, 2017, 06:53:35 pm »
Yes, replace them. Cogs are unique and practically unobtainable and the bearings surfaces tend to die quickly. If Maillard had actually done a decent job, they could have cornered the market. Instead they penny-pinched themselves into being bought by Sachs and then SRAM.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #2 on: 22 January, 2017, 10:51:36 pm »
if they are in reasonable shape they can give good service, but if they need parts it can soon turn into a problem. 

In the rear hub, all the parts are 'special' to this setup except

a) the axle
b) the LH cone and both locknuts
c) some of the sprockets on the freewheel.

The RH hub bearing has a smaller than usual bearing cup and uses smaller than usual balls; wear here is common. I keep meaning to check if the cup is the same size as is found in a Maillard front hub; if so it could be replaced when it wears I suppose.

The freewheel bodies are the usual Maillard quality, i.e. dodgy tolerances but hard-wearing steel,  and (certainly whenever I get hold of them) always need to be re-shimmed. They usually come good once they have been re-shimmed.

To remove the freewheel you need the 'beer bottle opener' tool that Maillard made for the purpose; you can easily damage the lockring by using other tools (eg grips) on it.

Overall I'd think twice about building a new wheel around one of these hubs, unless originality of equipment on the bike is a real priority.

cheers

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #3 on: 11 July, 2018, 10:08:08 pm »
Bit of thread necromancy

So have a dawes bike and think it has a helicomatic hub and cassette.

Any londoners got a spare remover?  Or explain how to remove the cassette and then regrease the internals as I managed to wash dirt in to the mechanism.

Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #4 on: 11 July, 2018, 10:27:12 pm »
there is a splined ring that unscrews (RH thread) and then the freewheel just pulls off. But in fact if you want to deal with slightly dirty bearings, the freewheel can stay put. I suggest

a) that you can service the main hub bearings with the freewheel in situ (just using cone spanners in the usual way) and
b) that the freewheel can be purged/relubricated in situ by running oil through it.

Step b will be a bit messy but you know when you are done if the oil runs clear out of the back.
 
If you want to get fancy you can flush with something thinner (WD40 or GT85) and then lubricate the freewheel with an aerosol semi-fluid grease, which will be thin enough to enter the workings but should stick better than oil will.

cheers
 

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #5 on: 13 July, 2018, 07:55:55 pm »
Not a helicomatic hub, just a normal threaded hub.

Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #6 on: 13 July, 2018, 08:11:12 pm »
Not a helicomatic hub, just a normal threaded hub.

same deal then, just more awkward to service the RHS bearings with the freewheel in place.

cheers

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #7 on: 13 July, 2018, 09:30:33 pm »
What make is the freewheel?  They tend to use a 4-prong remover or a Shimano UG splined tool.  Some HG tools will work but genuine Shimano HG tools won't.  The HG tool is (pointlessly) slightly larger than UG.

Removal often involves holding the tool in place with a QR or axle nut, sitting on the wheel and bashing your biggest adjustable spanner with a rubber mallet.  Refit with antiseize.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #8 on: 13 July, 2018, 10:50:25 pm »
If the freewheel is a Shimano pattern spline, the easiest way to remove the freewheel is to clamp the tool in the vice and unscrew the wheel.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #9 on: 14 July, 2018, 10:36:44 am »
For the easy ones  ;D

Mine were always so ridiculously tight that they needed shocking free.  28T big cog and sadistic club run leaders who took us over massive hills.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #10 on: 14 July, 2018, 11:46:19 am »
Usually it all goes smoothly, aside from the odd punter looking at you a bit gone out.

Occasionally there is the odd ancient relic which stubbornly refuses to cooperate and once or twice I've ended up with a Pringle...
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #11 on: 14 July, 2018, 02:24:44 pm »
What make is the freewheel?  They tend to use a 4-prong remover or a Shimano UG splined tool.  Some HG tools will work but genuine Shimano HG tools won't.  The HG tool is (pointlessly) slightly larger than UG.

Removal often involves holding the tool in place with a QR or axle nut, sitting on the wheel and bashing your biggest adjustable spanner with a rubber mallet.  Refit with antiseize.

Suspect that the freewheel is mailliard

Not a helicomatic hub, just a normal threaded hub.

same deal then, just more awkward to service the RHS bearings with the freewheel in place.

cheers


May need dismantling to clean out the cog....

If the freewheel is a Shimano pattern spline, the easiest way to remove the freewheel is to clamp the tool in the vice and unscrew the wheel.

Not a spline a screw thread

Re: Helicomatic Hub
« Reply #12 on: 14 July, 2018, 03:16:36 pm »
the 'spline' referred to above is for the remover. Not all freewheels use a splined remover. A photo would help enormously.

IME it is pretty much pointless to dismantle a freewheel in order to clean it; just lube the thing and spin it and/or ride it; both oil and dirt will exit the mechanism as you ride/spin.  Fresh water and dirt is constantly trying to enter the unshielded bearings; freewheels need lube (like chains do) after every wet ride.

Also NB, even neglected freewheels wear the sprockets out before the body dies, so unless you have fresh sprockets to fit or a slavish chain replacement schedule, the life of the freewheel body is in no way limiting.

cheers