Author Topic: Honest 820 Edge review  (Read 4766 times)

Honest 820 Edge review
« on: 07 May, 2017, 09:31:45 am »
Since warts and all reviews are so rare if thought this was worth posting:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/05/garmin-edge-820-review-cycling-battery-life-group-tracking-touchscreen-navigation

I've been thinking of replacing my old edge 500 for some time and while the 820 always struck me as a backward step, after reading this I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole. It may also help to explain why the Wahoo Bolt stocks sells out so quickly

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #1 on: 07 May, 2017, 09:38:28 am »
Sounds like a typical Garmin new product, will probably be worth buying in a years time once they actually get the software sorted!

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #2 on: 07 May, 2017, 09:51:35 am »
The navigation problems aren't an issue with the device itself, they're down to Garmin's awful mapping that includes all sorts of non-rideable routes. You get the same issues when trying to plot a route on Garmin Connect - the difference being that you have the luxury of checking and tweaking them to avoid the problem areas.

Have they changed to a capacitive touchscreen on the 820? The resistive touchscreen on the 510 works fine in all conditions. A capacitive screen would definitely not be an improvement.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #3 on: 07 May, 2017, 02:19:11 pm »
I had one - the screen was unusable - hyper sensitive or not sensitive at all. I foolishly thought it would work as well as the Edge 1000 I also have and just be scaled down version of that - wrong. The elevation setting simply did not work - despite resetting, my home elevation constantly shows a negative figure (I am not below sea level) and does not calibrate to the location. Again, it works feature perfectly on the E1000. It was returned for a refund.

Currently running an Elemnt Bolt - not perfect but not far off. The mono mapping is adequate, the tbt works most of the time - I'm still refining my RideWithGPS routes technique to get it to work all of the time. That said, if was going to do some major routes or touring, I'd probably take the E1000 for the visual feedback the maps give you.

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #4 on: 07 May, 2017, 03:30:54 pm »
Sounds like a typical Garmin new product, will probably be worth buying in a years time once they actually get the software sorted!

The impression I get is that the software will never be sorted, and in a year’s time the device will have been superseded.

All Garmin issues seem to share one bewildering feature: they can all be detected within a few rides by reviewers or user-reporters.

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #5 on: 07 May, 2017, 03:32:41 pm »
Hammerhead Karoo.


Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #6 on: 07 May, 2017, 03:51:14 pm »
Hammerhead Karoo.

It does sound promising.

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #7 on: 07 May, 2017, 03:54:04 pm »
Hammerhead Karoo.

Absolutely - this looks like the holy grail, but not until later in the year and only selling direct from the USA - I've asked them about this but not had a reply yet. The last time I bought direct from USA, the cost rose alarmingly with import duty, vat and then Royal Mail's excessive revenue collection charges.

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #8 on: 07 May, 2017, 04:18:48 pm »
The point being that, finally, there are some alternatives to Garmin

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #9 on: 07 May, 2017, 04:52:44 pm »
Hammerhead Karoo.

Absolutely - this looks like the holy grail, but not until later in the year and only selling direct from the USA - I've asked them about this but not had a reply yet. The last time I bought direct from USA, the cost rose alarmingly with import duty, vat and then Royal Mail's excessive revenue collection charges.
Yes, the fees are excessive on lower-value items (been there, done that- though what annoys me more is getting charged duty and VAT on the postage costs, not just the value of the item), however RM's fees are considerably lower than the competition. DPD charge £25!

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #10 on: 07 May, 2017, 05:14:54 pm »
The point being that, finally, there are some alternatives to Garmin

Without knowing about this, I just recently sent Garmin a small piece of my mind (not that there's much to spare) saying (in brief), "I've been a garmin user for years because there's nothing better, just as soon as there is, I'm off".

dim

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #11 on: 07 May, 2017, 07:36:19 pm »
I dont have an 820, but have the 1000

the guy who done the review keeps on complaining about the screen sensitivity when he swipes the screen. He obviously is unaware of the Garmin remote gadget .... press a button and you flick between screens. Garmin should include this in the package of the unit:

https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/p/146078



I have one but never use it as my screen and unit is set up properly (for me) .... I have the front page setup showing my speed, average speed, cadence, average cadence, distance to next turn, total distance, and heartbeat (I don't have a power meter (yet))


this is the screen that is on the first screen and stays on during the whole duration of my ride until I need to make a turn ... When I need to take a side road/turn, I get a loud beep and the screen swithes to the map screen showing me where I need to turn. Once I've turned, the screen switches back to my main screen showing speed etc

but my question is .... why the heck do you want to flip screens during a ride if you have set your unit up correctly with the data thats importsat to you?

I also have the Garmin Varia Radar connected, so when a car approaches from the rear, when it is approx 200 meters away, I get a loud beep and a dot appears on the bottom .... as the car approaches, the dot moves up the screen .... when the car is beside me, the dot is on top of the screen .... this unit is a 'must have' IMHO as it makes cycling a lot more 'stress free'

The Garmin units are pretty complex, and you need to know how to set them up .... I doubt that the guy who done the review done his homework on how to set the unit up

You need to read this forum on a regular basis (if you own the 820):

https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?591-Edge-820

plus read dcrainmakers blog:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/07/garmin-edge-820.html

when I bought my Edge 1000, I knew beforehand that it had small glitches, such as switching off during a ride, but I also knew/know that it would be 'eventually' sorted

I had a few glitches on some of my rides, where the unit switched off during a ride, but when I switched it back on, my data was still there.I lost a minute of ride time and I got home with no problems

since loading the new software, the unit has not switched off and everyting works like a dream .... no stress on a ride on a road that I have never been on, all data works fine

my unit is the Garmin Edge 1000, and if I had to choose again, I'd get the same .... I think that the 820 is similar, but you need to learn how to set it up....

I learned lots from this site (read the comments aswell):

http://www.forgot.co.uk/garmin-edge-navigation/garmin-edge-1000/


can any of the other units on the market offer the same features?

bottom line.... it's a kak review from someone who never done his homework, and who does not have a clue









“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #12 on: 07 May, 2017, 07:42:19 pm »
Bollocks

Samuel D

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #13 on: 07 May, 2017, 08:57:12 pm »
The Garmin units are pretty complex, and you need to know how to set them up .... I doubt that the guy who done the review done his homework on how to set the unit up

You need to read this forum on a regular basis (if you own the 820):

https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?591-Edge-820

plus read dcrainmakers blog:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/07/garmin-edge-820.html

Correct set-up only solves some of the problems and shouldn’t be that hard anyway. Infinitely more capable smartphones come in a ready-to-use state with extraordinarily well thought-out defaults, because Apple and Google have put in a huge effort to find out what works for most people. Garmin is just lazy.

when I bought my Edge 1000, I knew beforehand that it had small glitches, such as switching off during a ride

Switching off during a ride is not a “small glitch” but total failure. What could be worse? This is especially true because when Garmins crash they tend to lose data and the ability to resume navigating a route without major hand-holding. Since the entire point of these devices is recording data and navigating a route, this failure mode is simply catastrophic.

Re weaning ourselves off Garmin: a friend pointed out another interesting device to me today, the Sigma ROX 7.0 (and 11.0 for the metrics fiends). I would not normally expect a German company to do a better user interface than an American company, but I think they’ve pulled this off. It goes without saying that it’s more reliable. Early user reviews are gushing, unlike user reviews of Garmins. The price is far less than a comparable Garmin too.

When/if one of these companies makes a navigation-first device, it’ll be curtains for Garmin unless they seriously overhaul their entire way of working. That’s what happened to Garmin in-car sat-navs when smartphones came along and did their job better.

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #14 on: 07 May, 2017, 10:45:01 pm »
Just as a bye-the-bye, my main device is an Oregon 650, which is a premium "handheld" that is sufficiently versatile to do service for all transport modes. The touch screen is generally pretty good, but I did larf a little when on a recent ride the hail started actuating it. I can understand and sympathise a little with the idea that a multi-touch screen is inevitably going to have  a trade off somewhere and isn't likely to work under water, but it was funny.

(ETA - I don't blame Garmin for that. Physics is a bitch)

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #15 on: 07 May, 2017, 10:54:57 pm »
What are the maps like on the Sigma device?

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #16 on: 07 May, 2017, 11:24:46 pm »
What are the maps like on the Sigma device?

The Wahoo Elemnt Bolt? Adequate if following a route, but the lack of colour is a drawback and you can't pan around or see street names and POIs. But the point is you find a route on your phone (many different ways of doing this) and send it to the Bolt, which works very well.

I'd still prefer a top-notch reliable navigation-focused cycle computer that's a little smaller than the Edge 1000 and has a colour screen (with buttons!), but I don't think this exists. In the meantime, I'll use the Bolt.

EDIT: That Hammerhead Karoo does look interesting, I'll keep my eye on that. Hope it either works with Garmin mounts, or comes with other mounts than just an out-front one, as those don't work well with a bar bag, which I want when touring. The teaser video and screenshot don't really show the mapping, though, so I guess it's wait and see, though I did find this in the press pack, which looks reasonably promising:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mprufleychk5rtz/AACdUizjbwU6lveHFdtnPhUQa/Karoo%20Gallery?dl=0&preview=Hammerhead_Karoo_TopView_RoutesApp.jpg


Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #17 on: 07 May, 2017, 11:47:21 pm »
I had a Mio Cyclo 305 (made by Magellan, so a major player) but they don't seem to have done much to dent Garmin's monopoly. Great balance of features and usability, bright readable screen (that worked in the rain, not by the rain) but they were late to the party with Strava integration and WiFi (neither of which are important to me) but it seems it's these features that drive the market hence the endless succession of bells and whistles Garmins without the fundamental reliability/navigation being nailed. I've subsequently, and perhaps prematurely, switched to Ride with GPS on my phone and sold the Mio. I think the threat to Garmin (and the rest) is when smartphones hit the cycling navigation/metrics sweetspot.

Samuel D

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #18 on: 08 May, 2017, 12:00:00 am »
The Sigma ROX 7.0 has no maps but it can follow a course you create elsewhere. It’s about €100 and seems to work as advertised – major advantages over any Garmin.

My ideal navigation device would have a small monochrome LCD (much easier to read in daylight and much lower battery consumption, plus all I care about are roads for which colour offers minor advantages). Touchscreen for reasonably rapid address entry even though touchscreens are otherwise more trouble than they’re worth here. Processor and/or routing algorithms about 50 × faster than the Garmins (not expensive or difficult in the power budget; Garmin is just seriously lazy and encumbered by decades of cruft). Road maps provided by a commercial entity so they work (the OSM maps too often do not work for routing). A 24-hour battery so you can still get 12 hours out of it three years down the line. Soldered-in battery for reliable connection (a major problem with the AA-powered eTrex models), home-replaceable with a screwdriver, soldering gun, and a standard lithium-ion battery on the open market. No funniness.

None of this is remotely hard in 2017 by the standards of the tech industry, but neither is it likely to happen even at a company with more vision than Garmin. Usefulness is not prized by the industry or its commentators.

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #19 on: 08 May, 2017, 08:27:56 am »
There's an interesting first look at the Hammerhead Karoo on the excellent DCRainmaker site:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/05/hammerhead-karoo-gps-bike-computer.html

One great thing to note - it's compatible with Garmin mounts :-)

It seems to imply maps are cached, rather than built into the unit - this is a worry, unless you can cache a large area AND specify that area precisely and ask it not to overwrite that cache until you want to

It has 3G connectivity, I hope that doesn't mean you need to have a (separate from your phone paid data plan to use it)

Performance (no lag) sounds excellent

I'm even more interested now, though I think it's likely to cost *much* more than DC Rainmaker suggests
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #20 on: 08 May, 2017, 08:25:26 pm »
The Sigma ROX 7.0 has no maps but it can follow a course you create elsewhere. It’s about €100 and seems to work as advertised – major advantages over any Garmin.

My ideal navigation device would have a small monochrome LCD (much easier to read in daylight and much lower battery consumption, plus all I care about are roads for which colour offers minor advantages). Touchscreen for reasonably rapid address entry even though touchscreens are otherwise more trouble than they’re worth here. Processor and/or routing algorithms about 50 × faster than the Garmins (not expensive or difficult in the power budget; Garmin is just seriously lazy and encumbered by decades of cruft). Road maps provided by a commercial entity so they work (the OSM maps too often do not work for routing). A 24-hour battery so you can still get 12 hours out of it three years down the line. Soldered-in battery for reliable connection (a major problem with the AA-powered eTrex models), home-replaceable with a screwdriver, soldering gun, and a standard lithium-ion battery on the open market. No funniness.

None of this is remotely hard in 2017 by the standards of the tech industry, but neither is it likely to happen even at a company with more vision than Garmin. Usefulness is not prized by the industry or its commentators.
Most potential customers would not be willing to solder in a new battery, so that'd be a commercial no-no. Manufacturers would either choose the simplicity of a built-in battery with no facility to access it (easier & cheaper to make, I expect), or normal removable batteries.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

dim

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #21 on: 08 May, 2017, 10:02:40 pm »
The Sigma ROX 7.0 has no maps but it can follow a course you create elsewhere. It’s about €100 and seems to work as advertised – major advantages over any Garmin.

My ideal navigation device would have a small monochrome LCD (much easier to read in daylight and much lower battery consumption, plus all I care about are roads for which colour offers minor advantages). Touchscreen for reasonably rapid address entry even though touchscreens are otherwise more trouble than they’re worth here. Processor and/or routing algorithms about 50 × faster than the Garmins (not expensive or difficult in the power budget; Garmin is just seriously lazy and encumbered by decades of cruft). Road maps provided by a commercial entity so they work (the OSM maps too often do not work for routing). A 24-hour battery so you can still get 12 hours out of it three years down the line. Soldered-in battery for reliable connection (a major problem with the AA-powered eTrex models), home-replaceable with a screwdriver, soldering gun, and a standard lithium-ion battery on the open market. No funniness.

None of this is remotely hard in 2017 by the standards of the tech industry, but neither is it likely to happen even at a company with more vision than Garmin. Usefulness is not prized by the industry or its commentators.

I looked at the Sigma .... not much different to the old Garmin Edge 500 (I have one) .... breacrump mapping .... get to a section that has a road closure and you are off course (you are fooked and end up asking pedestrians for directions).... and every pedesterian ponts in a different direction  :D
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle

dim

Re: Honest 820 Edge review
« Reply #22 on: 08 May, 2017, 10:03:46 pm »
The Sigma ROX 7.0 has no maps but it can follow a course you create elsewhere. It’s about €100 and seems to work as advertised – major advantages over any Garmin.

My ideal navigation device would have a small monochrome LCD (much easier to read in daylight and much lower battery consumption, plus all I care about are roads for which colour offers minor advantages). Touchscreen for reasonably rapid address entry even though touchscreens are otherwise more trouble than they’re worth here. Processor and/or routing algorithms about 50 × faster than the Garmins (not expensive or difficult in the power budget; Garmin is just seriously lazy and encumbered by decades of cruft). Road maps provided by a commercial entity so they work (the OSM maps too often do not work for routing). A 24-hour battery so you can still get 12 hours out of it three years down the line. Soldered-in battery for reliable connection (a major problem with the AA-powered eTrex models), home-replaceable with a screwdriver, soldering gun, and a standard lithium-ion battery on the open market. No funniness.

None of this is remotely hard in 2017 by the standards of the tech industry, but neither is it likely to happen even at a company with more vision than Garmin. Usefulness is not prized by the industry or its commentators.

I looked at the Sigma .... not much different to the old Garmin Edge 500 (I have one) .... breacrump mapping .... get to a section that has a road closure/diversion and you are off course (you are fooked and end up asking pedestrians for directions).... and every pedesterian points you in a different direction  :D
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle