[LEL17] Support cars

[DCLane]

I kept seeing a Lithuanian motorhome at various points up to Moffatt on the route. After that it wasn't seen again. They definitely took the LEL route rather than an alternative.

[jsabine]

seeing these riders and thier helpers at controls took a little bit away from the whole ride for me.

That's a little bit sad, I think. To me, the fact that so many riders were participating and enjoying (or suffering!) the route along with me added to my enjoyment of the whole event. They were riding their own ride, I was riding mine. I filled my drop bags (though in the event didn't use more than a change of clothes and a pair of gloves), I met my parents for a cup of tea in Edinburgh, and I was pleased to get round with an hour or so to spare.

It makes no difference to me that some got round in 60-odd hours while others had just minutes in hand or indeed came in hors delai: I'm not bothered whether someone is supported by friends and family volunteering at controls (though I'm grateful for their efforts if they do) or met at each one with a motorhome, nor if someone believes that the one true use of a drop bag is to allow the luxury of a clean hair shirt. I'm just pleased that so many chose to ride and take part, and I'd celebrate each one of them.

[mmmmartin]

To be fair, Eskdalemuir control is on the only road round there so if a support vehicle, campervan or otherwise, needed to meet a rider there, it simply had to drive along that road. I know they're not supposed to.

[LMT]

I don't understand what the OP means about a"level playing field".  Actually, I'm probably being disingenuous because I imagine what the OP means is that it's not a fair COMPETITION.  Really, it''s just you against the event.

That said, support cars caused a lot of praoblems at Eskdalemuir because they weren't supposed to be on that section of the route, as I understand it.  Disqualification of the rider is an obvious knee-jerk reaction but that would be hard on a rider who had no idea that his drugs bussupport team was transgressing.

It's certainly an issue that needs discussion and clarification, maybe even to the extent of a blanket ban - but rather from safety considerations than otherwise.

Peter

You imagine wrong! It's a challenge, it has rules, it has a time limit. Nothing to do with competition. When a finish list is published it'd be nice if everyone had achieved  the same thing in the same manner.

Give over, did you get round? If so then just be happy for yourself, ffs.

So sorry LMT. There's me thinking this is a forum to discuss things and air views. FFS 

You're undermining someone else's ride who has had support when there is no need or want for it.

[LMT]

seeing these riders and thier helpers at controls took a little bit away from the whole ride for me.

That's a little bit sad, I think. To me, the fact that so many riders were participating and enjoying (or suffering!) the route along with me added to my enjoyment of the whole event. They were riding their own ride, I was riding mine. I filled my drop bags (though in the event didn't use more than a change of clothes and a pair of gloves), I met my parents for a cup of tea in Edinburgh, and I was pleased to get round with an hour or so to spare.

It makes no difference to me that some got round in 60-odd hours while others had just minutes in hand or indeed came in hors delai: I'm not bothered whether someone is supported by friends and family volunteering at controls (though I'm grateful for their efforts if they do) or met at each one with a motorhome, nor if someone believes that the one true use of a drop bag is to allow the luxury of a clean hair shirt. I'm just pleased that so many chose to ride and take part, and I'd celebrate each one of them.

+1

[Brakeless]

I don't understand what the OP means about a"level playing field".  Actually, I'm probably being disingenuous because I imagine what the OP means is that it's not a fair COMPETITION.  Really, it''s just you against the event.

That said, support cars caused a lot of praoblems at Eskdalemuir because they weren't supposed to be on that section of the route, as I understand it.  Disqualification of the rider is an obvious knee-jerk reaction but that would be hard on a rider who had no idea that his drugs bussupport team was transgressing.

It's certainly an issue that needs discussion and clarification, maybe even to the extent of a blanket ban - but rather from safety considerations than otherwise.

Peter

You imagine wrong! It's a challenge, it has rules, it has a time limit. Nothing to do with competition. When a finish list is published it'd be nice if everyone had achieved  the same thing in the same manner.

Give over, did you get round? If so then just be happy for yourself, ffs.

So sorry LMT. There's me thinking this is a forum to discuss things and air views. FFS 

You're undermining someone else's ride who has had support when there is no need or want for it.

I'd say that supported rides are undermining the achievement of unsupported rides which are the majority. As for need or want for it that's your opinion but trying to put it so forcefully and trying to belittle with the use of ffs and the like doesn't make your view the only one worth having.

[jsabine]

I'd say that supported rides are undermining the achievement of unsupported rides

See, I don't get this at all. I rode it, and I'm happy with what I achieved. I don't feel in the slightest bit undermined by the fact that someone had a support vehicle and I didn't, just as I don't feel undermined or inadequate because some people rode it in 100 hours and I rode it in 116 - I rode my ride, and they rode theirs. I shared my ride with some people, they shared their ride with me: I think I helped a few people a bit along the way and I was definitely helped by some others. I didn't ask whether they were supported or not, it just didn't come up.

[Gattopardo]

I think I know who you are talking about, maybe this needs to be a private discussion.

[Gattopardo]

I'd say that supported rides are undermining the achievement of unsupported rides

See, I don't get this at all. I rode it, and I'm happy with what I achieved. I don't feel in the slightest bit undermined by the fact that someone had a support vehicle and I didn't, just as I don't feel undermined or inadequate because some people rode it in 100 hours and I rode it in 116 - I rode my ride, and they rode theirs. I shared my ride with some people, they shared their ride with me: I think I helped a few people a bit along the way and I was definitely helped by some others. I didn't ask whether they were supported or not, it just didn't come up.

Sorry I missed you.

[Brakeless]

I think I know who you are talking about, maybe this needs to be a private discussion.

I'm not talking about any specific rider. Totally happy for people to disagree with me. Totally respect Jsabines replys and it isn't as bigger deal as maybe it's coming across but I'd stick to my view that supported riders are really riding a slightly different event. As for LMT's posts, I've just read back through his comments to the organisers before the event so I won't take too much notice of his opinion at all.

[CrinklyLion]

My wife stayed for the duration at Thirsk this event as a helper while I rode but she has supported me several times on PBP at various controls. As PIP said up thread, some couples like to share the experience and years later we can still talk, cry and laugh about the events as we were both heavily involved and in the thick of the action. I'm sorry her presence may detract from some of your rides but we shall continue to do our thing.

A big "thank you" to your wife from over here for giving her time to support the event.  There were a number of friends/partners of riders up in in BC too who spent the duration of the event supporting everyone as well as 'their' rider and especially in the case of the 'regulars' their understanding of riders' needs is invaluable. 

I'm currently working on recruiting my little sister's mother-in-law (CrinklyUncle's mum!) who I reckon would be a great volunteer for 2021 - and as I said to her

you get a kick out of helping other riders, knowing that all over the country they may have friends and family doing likewise for "yours".

I'd stick to my view that supported riders are really riding a slightly different event.

I think that everyone's ride is different.  The people who are riding 15k recumbents aren't doing the same thing as the people riding skip bikes (arabella in 2009, I believe?).  One lucky rider arriving at BC got an actual pillow - because his (extremely hard-working!) volunteer wife gave up hers and left it on the control desk for him.  The fast people who arrive in empty controls with dozens of beds are riding a different event to the people in the middle of the bulge who queue for 2 hours in a crowded dorm.  The people with sufficient speed to get 7 hours kip every night are riding a different event to the ones bouncing off the time limit with 15 minute catnaps in field entrances.  The people with the financial resources to book a string of hotel rooms are riding a different event to those entirely dependant of the offerings of controls...

[jsabine]

Totally respect Jsabines replys and it isn't as bigger deal as maybe it's coming across but I'd stick to my view that supported riders are really riding a slightly different event.

Obviously views differ, and I'm not trying to diminish yours, but I don't see how someone else's ride choices - and the fact their ride is thereby different - affect my enjoyment or feeling of achievement, at least unless they've had a direct impact.

As CL says, *everyone*'s riding a slightly different event - f'r'instance, on the way north, my start time and speed (or lack of it ...) meant that the only time I got a good drenching was from 5km before Edinburgh to, pretty much, the carpark entrance at Gracemount, but I spent enough time on wet roads to know that folk only a little ahead of me must have had a very different view of the weather. I was quite grateful for the towel I was offered when I walked in ...

[jsabine]

Sorry I missed you.

Where were you? Hadn't realised you were volunteering - thank you!

[Exit Stage Left]

The supporter/volunteer interface was fairly fluid. There were volunteers at Loughton who went on to follow riders. Some volunteered at other controls. I saw Shab waiting for Hamid and working at Barnard Castle.

Cindy Tyrer was supporting her mother Vicki at various controls, and I had an interesting conversation about Texan attitudes to Trump. Vicki told me that she'd been support crew for Chris Hopkinson on a race in Texas, so relationships extend beyond Audax.

There were many riders from outside the AUK world, and they do things differently. I've ridden PBP with support from Heather Swift, as filming is difficult without someone to manage batteries, and Heather likes to be involved. She also likes to see how controls are arranged on PBP, for ideas at Brampton.

The supporters might be able to give insights into organisational aspects of LEL. The riders and volunteers are fully absorbed by the demands of the ride, while many supporters have seen how other rides are run. Characterising them as a nuisance, just helping there riders cheat, seems to be counter-productive to me.

One rider, Zoe from Bulgaria, packed at Barnard Castle, turned up as cheerleader in Cambridge, volunteered at Great Easton, and was at at Loughton to greet her friend Tsevan.

[CrinklyLion]

The supporter/volunteer interface was fairly fluid. There were volunteers at Loughton who went on to follow riders. Some volunteered at other controls. I saw Shab waiting for Hamid and working her blinking socks off at Barnard Castle.

FTFY   That woman is a whirlwind of energy, enthusiasm and giggles to rival the ever ready bunny.

[Exit Stage Left]

A bit of criticism in a post on YACF probably doesn't compare to fleeing the Iranian Revolution and starting a new life in Florida.

[CrinklyLion]

I wasn't aware that anyone had in any way criticised her?

[Exit Stage Left]

I wasn't aware that anyone had in any way criticised her?

Only in the general sense of being a supporter on LEL. I'm taking the OP as a criticism of support above that generally available. When I rode, there was always support for me from members of my family, who were volunteering. It made my ride easier, but I had done a lot of preparatory work for the control that Heather ran.

[CrinklyLion]

Well, if the OP wants to ban supporters from volunteering and as part of that volunteer role providing a bit of extra support to their partners/friends/family at a control somewhere around the route, I suspect they can kiss goodbye to a 2021 event because those supporter/volunteers made a significant  and valuable contribution, at least at the control I was at...

Although their criticism was specifically of using support vehicles, which is quite a different thing.  It's not really a thing that I get, but so long as the vehicles and the supporters play by the rules so they don't have a negative impact on the running of the controls or on other riders I don't see how someone riding with support in any way undermines the achievements of the 'unsupported' (perhaps more accurately the 'supported only by the event') riders.  And it makes one person fewer in the queue for a bed at Louth...

ETA - which isn't to say I don't think it'd be completely fine to double the cost of registering a support vehicle, if the "market" will take it

[The French Tandem]

Crinkles had an interesting story of a useless volunteer... Someone who basically was following their partner and "volunteering" only for the length of time their partner was at the control - eating volunteer food and leaving. (Unless I've misunderstood her - I was quite befuddled when I got to BC).

I know exactly who you are talking about, but I won't drop names! The point is that many spouses of riders who decided to volunteer had absolutely no idea of what  an audax is, and what should be done in a control. Some took up the pace very quickly, while others didn't, partially due  to a poor understanding of english. Anyway, I say thank you to all of them with no restriction!

[Ben T]

I'd say that supported rides are undermining the achievement of unsupported rides which are the majority. As for need or want for it that's your opinion but trying to put it so forcefully and trying to belittle with the use of ffs and the like doesn't make your view the only one worth having.

Everyone is supported - by the controls. 

[Brakeless]

I'd say that supported rides are undermining the achievement of unsupported rides which are the majority. As for need or want for it that's your opinion but trying to put it so forcefully and trying to belittle with the use of ffs and the like doesn't make your view the only one worth having.

Everyone is supported - by the controls. 

So support vehicles shouldn't be needed then ;-)

[Brakeless]

Well, if the OP wants to ban supporters from volunteering and as part of that volunteer role providing a bit of extra support to their partners/friends/family at a control somewhere around the route, I suspect they can kiss goodbye to a 2021 event because those supporter/volunteers made a significant  and valuable contribution, at least at the control I was at...

That's a leap and is definately not what I was saying.

[Ben T]

I'd say that supported rides are undermining the achievement of unsupported rides which are the majority. As for need or want for it that's your opinion but trying to put it so forcefully and trying to belittle with the use of ffs and the like doesn't make your view the only one worth having.

Everyone is supported - by the controls. 

So support vehicles shouldn't be needed then ;-)

That might depend on whether the controls have adequate facilities. The meaning of 'adequate' is obviously subjective and will vary from rider to rider.
But it essentially reduces your argument from 'I don't agree with riders with support' to 'I don't agree with riders with more support than me'.

[mattc]

I wasn't aware that anyone had in any way criticised her?

Only in the general sense of being a supporter on LEL. I'm taking the OP as a criticism of support above that generally available. When I rode, there was always support for me from members of my family, who were volunteering. It made my ride easier, but I had done a lot of preparatory work for the control that Heather ran.

But the OP didn't say that at all! I suggest you reread his post - it was quite explicitly about SUPPORT CARS following a rider round the whole event.

(I don't fully agree with the OP's views, but it is wrong to misrepresent him as you have.)