Author Topic: Cordless drill and impact drivers (Read 4630 times)

Polar Bear · « **on:** 24 March, 2018, 08:17:25 pm »

For some dig fast approaching. Should I buy separate devices or one whizzy unit that does both? Is there a whizzy one that does both? There will be studwork and floor laying.

Screwfix do a number of 'pair's but I really don't know what to look for.

Kim · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 March, 2018, 08:23:02 pm »

A decent drill/driver is perfectly competent at driving screws. But it will be heavy, and if you're alternating hole-drilling and screw-screwing, you'll die of boredom swapping the bits.

With all cordless power tools, you're buying into a battery system. Choose wisely.

Polar Bear · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 March, 2018, 08:38:39 pm »

As each manufacturer appears to have their own proprietary battery It's rather difficult to buy wisely. I am not going to need more cordless tools so I'm wondering more about battery life management at this time.

Vernon · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 March, 2018, 08:41:43 pm »

They are quite different beasts, so if you're planning on doing a lot of screwing into stud work/joists I'd recommend getting a separate impact driver and drill set, especially if you're using hardwoods. My drill wasn't beefy enough to drive decking screws into oak sleepers when I built the raised beds in the garden.
I'd also recommend using at least an 18V system rather than the 10.4V stuff - it isn't powerful enough for heavy duty use.
I've got the Bosch blue kit (the precursor to this https://www.screwfix.com/p/bosch-0615990h97-18v-2-0ah-li-ion-coolpack-cordless-combi-drill-impact-driver-twin-pack/5251x I think - I don't recall paying quite as much for it).
Brand wise, Makita and Bosch professional (blue, rather than green) get decent reviews. I'm not so sure about Erbauer and Titan (I get the impression they are a bit cheap and cheerful) and don't really know much about DeWalt.

Plus wot Kim sed about bit swapping. If the timing is right I might be able to lend you mine.

robgul · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 March, 2018, 08:47:54 pm »

My 2p is that unless you're using the machine in a field stick to corded - my experience is that other than high-end (read expensive) stuff the batteries are poor and unless in frequent use with frequent charging they fail very quickly.

An extension lead is cheaper than a replacement battery!

Rob

Polar Bear · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 March, 2018, 08:48:47 pm »

Interesting. It was a Bosch drill driver from Screwfix that had caught my eye.

Work starts in mid April and could take up to four weeks. That is my window of opportunity so I must grab it with both hands. However, there are more jobs on the horizon so I'd probably benefit from an up front investment but thanks very much for the offer.

Perhaps we need a 'Tool Cabinet here in YACF?

Kim · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 March, 2018, 09:18:28 pm »

Quote from: Polar Bear on 24 March, 2018, 08:38:39 pm

As each manufacturer appears to have their own proprietary battery It's rather difficult to buy wisely.

FWIW don't buy Makita 18V stuff if the batteries are going to spend months on the shelf unused. The tools are excellent, but the BMS has an evil failure mode whereby deep-discharged batteries' electronics brick themselves "for safety reasons" on the third consecutive failed attempt at charging.

(PSA: If you have a Makita battery that fails to charge, proceed directly to your nearest electronics geek with a bench power supply, rather than shoving it back in the charger repeatedly. Bringing the cell that powers the BMS back up to normal voltage range allows it to charge normally, but only if you do that before it bricks itself.)

Quote

I am not going to need more cordless tools

I think that's the mistake everyone makes...

Quote

so I'm wondering more about battery life management at this time.

FWIW, from experience of building scenery, which is the closest I'm ever likely to come to laying a floor, n+1 smaller batteries beat n big ones (where n is the number of tools in use at once). That way you're not having to hang around waiting for them to charge.

And as robgul says, if you're going to be cheap about it and don't need the portability, stick to corded. Certainly don't touch anything that's using NiCad batteries with a barge pole.

rafletcher · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 March, 2018, 09:39:34 pm »

Do you mean hammer drill, or impact driver? I’m assuming the former, and I have two hammer drill/drivers, both Bosch, and both with aftermarket batteries which are much better than the originals.

Kim · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 March, 2018, 09:45:27 pm »

Beware of cheap aftermarket batteries. I took a punt on an imitation spare battery for my Makita stuff, and it worked really well for a while. On autopsy I was unsurprised to discover the cause of death was cell-reversal, due to a complete lack of balancing electronics. The official batteries do have balancing electronics (googling to check this is how I discovered the self-bricking BMS feature), and the original battery that came with my drill is still going strong.

Polar Bear · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 March, 2018, 09:47:25 pm »

I mean both as I have drilling and screw driving to do. Lots of both.

My existing Hitachi corded drill is a PITA as the chuck seems to randomly lose grip and I find that bloody cable to be a real issue when working in difficult corners and nooks.

rafletcher · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 March, 2018, 09:56:35 pm »

Quote from: Kim on 24 March, 2018, 09:45:27 pm

Beware of cheap aftermarket batteries. I took a punt on an imitation spare battery for my Makita stuff, and it worked really well for a while. On autopsy I was unsurprised to discover the cause of death was cell-reversal, due to a complete lack of balancing electronics. The official batteries do have balancing electronics (googling to check this is how I discovered the self-bricking BMS feature), and the original battery that came with my drill is still going strong.

Well mine came from here http://www.drill-battery.co.uk and have worked well for a couple of years. Also have low self discharge rate. Perhaps I’ve just been fortunate.

Kim · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 March, 2018, 10:02:35 pm »

Quote from: rafletcher on 24 March, 2018, 09:56:35 pm

Quote from: Kim on 24 March, 2018, 09:45:27 pm
Beware of cheap aftermarket batteries. I took a punt on an imitation spare battery for my Makita stuff, and it worked really well for a while. On autopsy I was unsurprised to discover the cause of death was cell-reversal, due to a complete lack of balancing electronics. The official batteries do have balancing electronics (googling to check this is how I discovered the self-bricking BMS feature), and the original battery that came with my drill is still going strong.

Well mine came from here http://www.drill-battery.co.uk and have worked well for a couple of years. Also have low self discharge rate. Perhaps I’ve just been fortunate.

Perhaps it's properly engineered. Mine was definitely a Chinese cheapo. The cells were dubious-looking cardboard things, though their capacity was okay, and the corner-cutting electronics was what ultimately caused the problem.

The problem is spotting the difference without taking things apart and voiding warranties.

Aunt Maud · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 March, 2018, 10:05:46 pm »

FWIW

I have some old Makita stuff, red battery, and it's been doing its thing for 10 years. I'm happy to recommend it and I would look at Axminster Tools for competitive pricing and good service.

If you're laying floor then get a twin driver pack. One for pilot holes and one for screws. As for the impact driver, I've never needed one and I work with lots of types of timber.

Blade · « **Reply #13 on:** 24 March, 2018, 10:17:49 pm »

I've been using and abusing my DeWalt drill for the last two years. Was well under £100 with two batteries, from Screwfix.

Amongst the abuse inflicted on the drill, is my using it with a long series 5/8 drill bit to remove tree stumps by drilling all the wood away by means of drilling multiple holes at angles into other previously drilled holes.

I've also noticed that all the tradespersons who we've employed to do work in our house over the last two years have all used DeWalt drills.

Canardly · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 March, 2018, 10:29:59 pm »

18v Dewalt are good and Screwfix do very good deals from time to time. Batteries do die and are very expensive to replace. I still pull out my cabled drill when some heavy stuff is required. I would like a lightweight sds drill but have too much kit already (including a 5kg sds).

Feanor · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 March, 2018, 10:44:22 pm »

With cordless tools, there's always a degree of vendor buy-in.

If you only buy one tool, it really doesn't matter.
If you have several, then it makes sense to choose one brand and share as much as you can.

I went with Makita way back when, and I have not regretted it.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #16 on:** 24 March, 2018, 10:51:36 pm »

Titan are cheap for a reason. I wouldn't buy a titan cordless.

I bought a Ryobi 18v cordless must be over 8 years ago and it has been brilliant. 2 batteries, 45min charge time, will drill 10mm holes in steel and impact drill in concrete.

Don't buy a cheap cordless, buy something decent.
If you are going to be drilling lots and lots of holes, then using a cheapish corded drill is for that is not a bad idea - use a good cordless for the screws (it will have the torque adjustment). I have a titan cordless for that job, actually two, one normal 1200W job and a big SDS breaker drill. But for screw driving and most work round the home I use the Ryobi.

Kim · « **Reply #17 on:** 24 March, 2018, 10:55:48 pm »

Quote from: Feanor on 24 March, 2018, 10:44:22 pm

I went with Makita way back when, and I have not regretted it.

Seconded. I have an 18V LXT drill/driver that has served me well for several years (and is outstandingly better than the B&Q NiCad thing that it replaced). Also a circular saw (infrequently used, but worked well on a couple of projects) and a USB charger adaptor (good for car camping) which I've modified to power a TS-100 soldering iron (useful for jobs that have to be done in-situ).

I also have an Aldi oscillating cutting/sanding tool that uses its own just-about-adequate battery, which has proved useful enough that it will get replaced with the Makita version when it dies. I'm slightly disappointed there isn't a Dremel equivalent in the series.

Quisling · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 March, 2018, 08:51:10 am »

I have a DeWalt cordless drill/driver, the hammer function of which gets through masonry very effectively. Yes, swapping bits is a PITA. It's seen a lot of action without problems and came with two batteries - which have a decent amount of juice and the shelf life seems pretty good. The batteries are also interchangeable with other DeWalt items. It is surprisingly compact for something that powerful, and the little light that shines where you're working is handy. DeWalt also do a cool gyroscopic driver now so no need to select whether to "do up" or "undo" anymore - just turn it in the direction you want and off it goes. Tis witchcraft I tell thee. I hear plenty of good stuff about Makita too.

I have an Erbauer heavy duty router which is excellent but don't know what the rest of their stuff is like.

Titan, as mentioned upthread, is cheap and cheerful. I blew up a big Titan SDS drill, but in fairness it saw a difficult life, being lent around the family for every major job. It was not readily repairable but at £65 it was half the price of some of quality brands and still gave good value before weeping greasy juices all over the place. Until it died it worked just fine, but probably lacked some of the vibration protection you'd see in costlier brands.

T42 · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 March, 2018, 11:07:31 am »

A couple of years back I bought a Dexter, one of Leroy Merlin's own-brand efforts, and only noticed when I tried using it in 3°C that it uses Nicads, the cheapskate underhand bastards. Before that I had a Skil that ran beautifully for ~12 years until the batteries finally died and were, of course, out of production.

Canardly · « **Reply #20 on:** 26 March, 2018, 11:15:09 am »

Screwfix have Dewalt bargain on the go at the moment. XR combi metal geared with 2 x 1.5Ah 30 min charge batteries £90.

Charlotte · « **Reply #21 on:** 26 March, 2018, 11:48:51 am »

Having recently borrowed a pukka heavy duty SDS drill with the hefty quick-release bits, I now have tool envy. I have no idea how they work, but compared to a regular hammer drill, they would appear to use some form of witchy magik to easily push bloody gert big holes into the sort of nasty tough concrete that usually resists all efforts to perforate it. If you need one, get one because they are incredible.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #22 on:** 26 March, 2018, 02:13:16 pm »

Quote from: Charlotte on 26 March, 2018, 11:48:51 am

Having recently borrowed a pukka heavy duty SDS drill with the hefty quick-release bits, I now have tool envy. I have no idea how they work, but compared to a regular hammer drill, they would appear to use some form of witchy magik to easily push bloody gert big holes into the sort of nasty tough concrete that usually resists all efforts to perforate it. If you need one, get one because they are incredible.

Big hammer. It is like the difference between hitting something with a tack hammer and a sledge. Tapping concrete with a tack hammer doesn't achieve much.

The other big difference is the amount of cooling and heavily greased gearboxes. My cheap titan SDS isn't a lot more (wattage) powerful than my standard corded drill, but I've used it to drive a 40mm drillbit through 60cm of concrete - nearly 10min of continuous drilling. The ordinary drill would just overheat and die, even if it could drive such a whacking bit.

chrisbainbridge · « **Reply #23 on:** 03 April, 2018, 06:42:32 pm »

I had to get an SDS drill to chisel up some concrete to get at a buried central heating pipe. it was awesome!!!

Feanor · « **Reply #24 on:** 03 April, 2018, 08:10:26 pm »

Ho, Yus.

I got an SDS plus drill some years back to mount some Sat Dish TK brackets onto some Bastard Hard walls.
A regular hammer drill just would not look at it.
The SDS punched the holes for the sleeve anchors like a hot knife through butter.

Not a tool you need often, but when you do, then you do.