Author Topic: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!  (Read 11097 times)


Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #1 on: 17 September, 2016, 11:35:47 pm »
I think WMP deserve some credit for this - lets hope the "new dawn" doesn't turn out to be a false one.
Link to West Midlands Police blog

https://trafficwmp.wordpress.com/2016/09/09/junction-malfunction-and-a-new-dawn/

"Our time and effort, we have quickly realised, is better spent enforcing the law and prosecuting, thus creating a scenario whereby should someone not give a cyclist the time and space necessary or fail to see them completely they should expect to be prosecuted."

...and (paraphrased) "bad driving of other vehicles is the thing that kills whereas bad cycling is effectively only an irritant, (which may actually be solved with better infrastructure) ".

Also, in the blog is a link to a download from RoSPA with presentation and video clips from different perspectives. (This took a while to download).
"Only the cyclist knows why the dog rides with its head out the window"

T42

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #2 on: 18 September, 2016, 09:40:20 am »
Bloody good.  Around here drivers generally give us a good margin. Funnily enough, the ones who don't usually sport a red A-plate on the back, meaning "Apprentice" - i.e. a new licence.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

mattc

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #3 on: 18 September, 2016, 06:19:36 pm »
Yup, all jolly good, and it's getting lots of soc-med* coverage.  :thumbsup:

(click to show/hide)

*I made that abbreviation up - hopefully the BBC will steal it.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

red marley

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #4 on: 18 September, 2016, 07:09:09 pm »
In response to MattC's spoiler comment... Tackling close passes is important in two ways even if not directly related to KSI incidents.

Firstly they are a symptom of a more general lack of consideration or awareness by vehicle drivers of cyclists and other vulnerable road users (e.g. horse riders and pedestrians). I think that is why the 'education' bit of WMP's approach is really important. They end up targeting exactly the drivers whose behaviour needs to change.

Secondly, and importantly in my view, close passes or the fear of them has a huge deterrent effect on new riders. Who would willingly encourage their 8 year old offspring to ride in the conditions shown in some those close pass videos? Wide, slow respectful passes  (or complete segregation) has to become the absolute norm before we have any chance of that 96% who do not ride regularly on the road turning to Copenhagen levels.

mattc

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #5 on: 18 September, 2016, 07:13:23 pm »
Fair point.

(my other suspicion is that Presumed Liability laws make much more difference, and tackle +every+ interaction with vulnerable road users. Witnessed this a lot in Belgium the other week :)
That way drivers are educated simply by the existence of the new law - they dont need to get the personalised education from WMP.)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #6 on: 18 September, 2016, 10:36:02 pm »
Apparently the police operation was funded by Birmingham City Council's Birmingham Cycle Revolution.  Possibly a 'one off'.
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50016/sustainable_travel/564/birmingham_cycle_revolution

Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Afasoas

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #7 on: 19 September, 2016, 08:23:19 am »
Apparently the police operation was funded by Birmingham City Council's Birmingham Cycle Revolution.  Possibly a 'one off'.
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50016/sustainable_travel/564/birmingham_cycle_revolution

Pity.

I counted nine close overtakes on my five mile route in this morning. I'd estimate at least 3x-4x that number of vehicles over took me.
But I also saw some very wide overtakes, including a trio on the final stretch of NSL.

Has this initiative had any effect? Hard to say with observation bias etc. but this morning's cycle in definitely felt much more comfortable.

ian

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #8 on: 19 September, 2016, 09:44:00 am »
I have to second Jo's comments, I think close passes are probably the most discouraging thing about cycling. Having motor vehicles zoom past at close distance is threatening and unpleasant. I suspect it puts more bikes back in the shed than anything else, and is also why a lot of people cycle on the pavements. I'm an experienced cyclist but there's a section of my route that I'll generally avoid because I know – no matter what I do – that there'll be a unpleasantly close and potentially dangerous pass.

I think many drivers simply don't realise it – you get exactly the same behaviour walking on lanes, cars fly by, often without giving an inch or slowing for a second. They have no concept I suppose of being that close to passing traffic, presumably because they're always sitting inside of it. Of course, and there are the aggressive bullies too.

I'm not optimistic of small, local campaigns like this. We need proper road policing that goes beyond reading number plates. That requires a significant re-evaluation of how we police the roads and ultimately our relationship with our motor vehicles.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #9 on: 19 September, 2016, 10:37:03 am »
I'd third all that. Cars turning across you at junctions might be statistically the most dangerous, but not the scariest or most aggravating. As for re-evaluating our relationship with motor vehicles, yes, and also probably with the law in general.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #10 on: 19 September, 2016, 12:23:38 pm »
The other thing to take into account is that accidents are incredibly rare, whereas close passing is a comparably very frequent event. Absolutely it puts people off cycling and I therefore applaud WMP for this initiative.
Rust never sleeps

Kim

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #11 on: 19 September, 2016, 01:45:49 pm »
Apparently the police operation was funded by Birmingham City Council's Birmingham Cycle Revolution.  Possibly a 'one off'.
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50016/sustainable_travel/564/birmingham_cycle_revolution

I've ranted a lot about some of the implementation of the Cycle Revolution elsewhere.  Nevertheless, given a lump sum (with no budget for ongoing maintenance), they have made an effort to spend it in ways that they believe to have the most effect.  Re-surfacing the city's towpaths is a quick easy win for existing cycle users that I've endorsed before, even if it isn't a scalable solution.  Some of the other infrastructure changes are worthwhile, albeit in a watered-down Brummie kind of way.  The Big Birmingham Bikes scheme appears to be achieving some positive results.  Policing's another aspect of that.

From seeing them speak at the local cycle forum, I think it's fair to say that West Midlands Police genuinely have the right idea, and know that the real problems on the roads are distracted and uninsured drivers.  But given some cycling-specific policing funding, this seems like as good a way to spend it as any - if only because it makes some noise in the press about what a reasonable distance to leave when overtaking cyclists is.

mattc

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #12 on: 19 September, 2016, 01:53:27 pm »
I'd third all that. Cars turning across you at junctions might be statistically the most dangerous, but not the scariest or most aggravating.
Say that once you're in the ambulance.

(Meant in a purely rhetorical way, in the hope that it never happens to you, dear Cudzo! )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #13 on: 19 September, 2016, 02:02:31 pm »
I'd third all that. Cars turning across you at junctions might be statistically the most dangerous, but not the scariest or most aggravating.
Say that once you're in the ambulance.

(Meant in a purely rhetorical way, in the hope that it never happens to you, dear Cudzo! )
It is the manoeuvre most likely to result in a serious injury to the cyclist. That's what the stats say.

It's the one where you end up under the wheels, or hit square on and you go over the bonnet. It *is* scary, because it is also the one that you can do sod all about.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #14 on: 19 September, 2016, 04:50:12 pm »
It's scary because of its physical effects while close passes are scary despite their lack of physical effects. IYSWIM.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #15 on: 19 September, 2016, 05:34:25 pm »
I thought this would be a media stunt, but the WM Police issued 38 fixed-point penalties for the offence over the summer as a result of drivers cutting up their riders.
Haggerty F, Haggerty R, Tomkins, Noble, Carrick, Robson, Crapper, Dewhurst, Macintyre, Treadmore, Davitt.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #16 on: 19 September, 2016, 05:38:35 pm »
Wooh!  :thumbsup:
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #17 on: 19 September, 2016, 06:20:40 pm »
I think it's fair to say that West Midlands Police genuinely have the right idea

QED

(They have similarly enlightened views on unlit cyclists and pavement cycling[1])


[1] Approximating to "You can pay this FPN, or take these free bike lights.." and "Don't be a wanker!" respectively.

benborp

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #18 on: 24 September, 2016, 02:30:53 pm »
https://twitter.com/MPSCamdenTnSgt/status/776762140581584896

WMP scheme has been picked up by MPS in Camden. Apparently Essex Police are also keeping an eye on developments.
A world of bedlam trapped inside a small cyclist.

Kim

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #19 on: 28 October, 2016, 01:58:28 pm »
Some of the reasoning behind this initiative:

https://trafficwmp.wordpress.com/2016/09/09/junction-malfunction-and-a-new-dawn/

TL;DR: Most cyclist KSIs are caused by car drivers failing to look properly at junctions.  That's hard to police/educate.  So they're concentrating on enforcement of close passes in the hope that it causes drivers to pay more attention to cyclists generally.

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #20 on: 28 October, 2016, 02:45:29 pm »
Some of the reasoning behind this initiative:

https://trafficwmp.wordpress.com/2016/09/09/junction-malfunction-and-a-new-dawn/


Well thought out and well written explanation of the WM police campaign, in my opinion.

I wish other forces, have access to the resources, and have the inclination to follow this example.

(or at least the local press from other areas give it the publicity it deserves. May make a few people think.)

SoreTween

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Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #21 on: 28 October, 2016, 02:47:56 pm »
Quote from: philthy3
As a retired police officer, I can reveal that "Plain clothes officers in the area conducting operations" generally means, we have no resources, but to quell public concerns, we will let you think we are doing something about it and any criminals that can read this article in the press, will avoid the area stamping out the problem without us doing anything.
78 prosecutions now.
2023 targets: Survive. Maybe.
There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #22 on: 28 October, 2016, 05:35:58 pm »
Do driving instructors/modern test now cover saccading and how to avoid it when looking?

http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/

Re: West Midlands Police Initiative - Hooray!
« Reply #23 on: 28 October, 2016, 07:09:45 pm »