Author Topic: Get me going!  (Read 14781 times)

rae

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #25 on: 27 June, 2008, 09:49:24 pm »
Quote
Oh, I get it.  Where should your heart rate be if you're using a HRM?  

To improve?   Stop just before you throw up.  I'm not kidding.  The biggest improvements in my Etape training were following a mate who is a lot better than me at climbing mountains, and being abused by him the whole way up.  At the top I routinely wanted to hurl - HR was a sustained 185 for the last 10 minutes.   I sliced about 15 minutes off a 1:30 climb in 2 weeks.  

For a 10 mile TT, I'd guess that you'd be 90% of the hurl threshold. 

What is your current speed?  How about an evening Regent's park session?   

fruitcake

  • some kind of fruitcake
Re: Get me going!
« Reply #26 on: 27 June, 2008, 10:01:25 pm »
I know precisely nothing about training.  I know that commuting daily from Forest Hill to Westminster on a bike that weighed 20kilos made subsequent club runs seems pips.  For me that was a result of poverty and ignorance. 
Get a crap bike.
(I am not your personal trainer.)
Actually, the advice to go faster on the bike you have seems much more sensible.

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Get me going!
« Reply #27 on: 27 June, 2008, 10:14:50 pm »
Quote
Oh, I get it.  Where should your heart rate be if you're using a HRM? 

To improve?   Stop just before you throw up.  I'm not kidding.  The biggest improvements in my Etape training were following a mate who is a lot better than me at climbing mountains, and being abused by him the whole way up.  At the top I routinely wanted to hurl - HR was a sustained 185 for the last 10 minutes.   I sliced about 15 minutes off a 1:30 climb in 2 weeks. 

For a 10 mile TT, I'd guess that you'd be 90% of the hurl threshold. 

Crikey.  :o

Quote
What is your current speed?  How about an evening Regent's park session?   

Depending on whether there's a headwind or not, my top speed is somewhere between 24 - 28kph.  Not fast.  I have managed to maintain 30ish but there was a following wind.  But yes, a Regents Park evening session would be a good plan.  :)

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Get me going!
« Reply #28 on: 27 June, 2008, 10:22:54 pm »
Woss your Plan, then, Andy?  You have enviable calves, so it must be good.  :D

My plan is this 20-week Half-Ironman (HIM) plan from one of the respected websites.  I'm coming in at week 13 and don't dare look at the rest, but will take it one week at a time.  For running and triathlon, these sorts of plans are pretty common ("couch to 5k" and "your first half-marathon" on Runner's World, for example).

The general idea is to spend some time building base stuff - long winter / turbo miles.   Then do speed and power work that gradually gets more intense and specific to your "A-race"; any of these will get you fitter, by simple progression, but by aiming at a specific thing you do that thing well.  Finally the plans taper off leaving you at peak fitness and fresh for the event, whatever that may be.

Reminds me, I need to shave my legs.  ;)

Rae's not wrong about the intensity level for *some* of it.  Right up there at the snot-and-heavy-breathing level.  But weave in some light sessions for recovery, too, so you don't burn out.

Best bike strength gains I ever got were commuting on a fixie; 10 rolling miles each way, 2-3 times a week.
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
OpenStreetMap UK & IRL Streetmap & Topo: ravenfamily.org/andyg/maps updates weekly.

rae

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #29 on: 28 June, 2008, 12:21:09 am »
Quote
Rae's not wrong about the intensity level for *some* of it.  Right up there at the snot-and-heavy-breathing level.  But weave in some light sessions for recovery, too, so you don't burn out. 

Of course.  My little commute to work was dog slow after following a bunch of roadies around the park on Thursday lunchtime - you can't do this sort of stuff on a daily basis and expect not to fall apart.  Tooling along at a pace you can handle for tens of miles makes you fit and sheds weight.   If you want to get stronger (and faster), then hard sessions are necessary. 

Right now I'm doing 21 mph laps, last year I could do 24 and once did a 25.  I'm too damn fat to get up the slope on the east side of the park at a reasonable pace at the moment.

Jakob

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #30 on: 28 June, 2008, 12:51:06 am »

Depending on whether there's a headwind or not, my top speed is somewhere between 24 - 28kph.  Not fast.  I have managed to maintain 30ish but there was a following wind.  But yes, a Regents Park evening session would be a good plan.  :)

Rae pulled me around Regents Park last year at speeds a fair bit higher than I was used to. Having someone to draft helps a lot!.
 I'd like to squeeze in one or two session before I depart, so if you two decide to go, let me know.

Also ditto on the Great Commute Race. In the 16 months I've lived in N1, I've lost twice (To other cyclists). By the time I get to the last bit from New North Road, I've completely forgotten my "I shall not compete with everything today"-promise and will race with everything from Numbtys pm Halfords Specials to surprised people on motorcycles that are amazed that I even bother trying. (If I can get the foot clipped in fast enough when setting off from the light, I *will* beat them getting across the road).


rae

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #31 on: 28 June, 2008, 12:56:29 am »
Will try and get out there next week - 6:30 or so in the evening.   Monday? 

Quote
Also ditto on the Great Commute Race. In the 16 months I've lived in N1, I've lost twice (To other cyclists). By the time I get to the last bit from New North Road, I've completely forgotten my "I shall not compete with everything today"-promise and will race with everything from Numbtys pm Halfords Specials to surprised people on motorcycles that are amazed that I even bother trying. (If I can get the foot clipped in fast enough when setting off from the light, I *will* beat them getting across the road). 

I regularly lose to people who are willing to be suicidal in traffic.  I haven't lost for quite a while when the traffic is clear....

New North Road?   Ever raced someone on a Litespeed?  I go down there every day....   :thumbsup:

Jakob

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #32 on: 28 June, 2008, 01:10:27 am »
Will try and get out there next week - 6:30 or so in the evening.   Monday? 

Sounds like a deal! (Liz?)


New North Road?   Ever raced someone on a Litespeed?  I go down there every day....   :thumbsup:
Sorry, meant the last bit of Essex Road, from New North Road to Balls Pond Road. There's usually a huge gaggle of cyclists, as the traffic is too dense for them to jump the lights and I'll beat them all!.Mwuhahahaha!!

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #33 on: 28 June, 2008, 08:47:52 pm »
I've also tried the short intervals; 1 minute at 100% interspersed with 2 minutes at Level 2 cruising.

I don't recommend them - after 10 reps I was shaking like a leaf.

This is one of the mainstay speedskating intervals, 500m reps, full bore, competitively, with three minutes active recovery between each.  I haven't done any for a while, but usually get the shakes, throwing up sometimes, and my brain goes to mush for the rest of the day.

Awesome workout, it really ups your top speed.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

gonzo

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #34 on: 29 June, 2008, 04:54:10 pm »
Sorry to say, but I'm gaoing to disagree with almost everything that's been said here.

there's a lot of bunkum out there to work out your 'fat burning zones'. Ignore.  First thing is to work out your maximum, so sprint up a hill several times and write down the biggest number you see

If you do it properly, you'll only (be able to) do it once (last time I did it was 2003)! But this number is of great importance. The best way I've seen of doing it is this:
- find a longish hill
- start going up it fairly hard
- as you get up it, keep pushing harder
- about 100meers from the top get out of the saddle and sprint for all you're worth
- you should get tunnel vision, but when your HRM (heart rate monitor) tells you what your max HR is, that'll be about 1 or 2 beats off.

If you want to get good at doing silly distances like 24 hour events, you need to train your body to deal with this sort of thing. This means that you want to be doing at least one very long ride a weekend. My training for a 12 hour will have me doing about 9 hour rides with something to spare the week before.

Your body will be more effective at dealing with these distances if you only tax your body with these long distance sets. Don't sprint for lights, don't accelerate/brake, don't sprint up hills then free wheel down the other side. I'd also say that you shouldn't be spending time sat at controls, meals and drinks should be picked up and food eaten on the go. You've gotta be riding at 65-75% max HR without going above and also without going below ideally.

I should say that the above is idealised as you're not used to these sorts of conditions so it'll kill you on the 600. This is the advice that should be given to people who've got more time to prepare.

Re-reading your original post, it seems that you've got lots of rides planned where you can do this sort of thing. Be a slave to your HR though. Group riding is only great if they're doing what you want to do.

To get faster over distance, you want to be doing some lactate threshold stuff. Short TTs are great for this. Efforts at 90% maxHR for over 5 minutes are great. Riding with much faster people is also ideal. Sprinting (from lights) is not. I'd question if spinning is really what's best as I don't think the hard bits are long enough from memory.

Yoga will probably help you greatly as being crouched over your bike for 24 hours will be agony on an untrained core. Again, this probably needs more than a month. See if you can focus on stomach and back muscles.

Ignore the swimming, now is not the time to cross train. Leave that till the winter.

If you can't hold a pace for the commute then treat the entire thing as a recovery ride. You should be going very slowly. Any sign of overtraining and things will be VERY bad.

If it was me, and I was in your situation I would do:
Mon - recovery ride commute and an hour of chasing fast people around your local park
Tue - recovery ride commute and yoga
Wed - recovery ride commute and an hour of chasing fast people around your local park
Th - recovery ride commute and yoga
Fri - rest day - take the bus/train/anything but the bike
Sat - Long ride at 70-75% max HR
Sun - Rest day

NB1 - TTs are great instead of the park sessions
NB2 - Move the entire plan down one line if that suits you better, but do the Friday session on Monday in that case.

gonzo

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #35 on: 29 June, 2008, 04:57:48 pm »
I should say that I've been doing something similar and have come back from no cycling at all 10 weeks ago to be able to do 22 minute 10 milers and do a hundred v. hilly miles (solo) at an average of about 17mph.

I've also found specific hill climbing rides to be helpful, but I'm fairly confident that there's nothing that's 5 minutes long in central London so left it off the list!

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Get me going!
« Reply #36 on: 29 June, 2008, 07:23:46 pm »
Cheers, Gonzo.  That's useful stuff. 

I might try heading for the Surrey hills for something that'll take longer than 30seconds to climb!

gonzo

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #37 on: 29 June, 2008, 07:27:33 pm »
If you want to do climbing, the main aim is to get your HR as high as it'll go. I found it really useful in kick starting my TTs by doing 5 minute reps up a mile hill. It allowed me to get an extra couple of % on my TT heart rate thus goa little faster.

I'm not sure how good it'll be for what you want to do, but it's great for all round fitness.

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #38 on: 29 June, 2008, 08:17:03 pm »
Liz, I am planning on starting to do eyeballs-out laps of Richmond Park twice a week (when I'm in the country, so not next week, or 7th or 9th).

I'd welcome the company.  :D

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Get me going!
« Reply #39 on: 29 June, 2008, 08:30:56 pm »
Right, that's a date, Vicky.  :D

Rae, Regents Park would be fab but I can't do Monday or Tuesday this week - maybe Wednesday or Thursday, or a day next week?  Let me know...

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #40 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:05:12 pm »
Great. I'm in Zurich from Tues - Fri, but will be going (hopefully) tomorrow night, & evening of 10th July.

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #41 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:10:07 pm »
I'm keen to do park laps, Richmond preferably but I'd like to try Regent's Park too.

Can you update the currently-sunk Richmond Park thread on the main board if anything is planned?

I'm also planning to do the Cheam and Morden Hilly 50 route soon if anyone fancies it, will put a post on the main board. Possibly this coming weekend.

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #42 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:12:52 pm »
I'll hopefully be in the park tomorrow night, Simon. I should be there from 18:45 at the earliest, and that will be leaving work early.

Woolly's working again this weekend, so I might join you for the hilly 50 if it's on Saturday?

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #43 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:21:21 pm »
Hi Peli!

Well I am somewhat restricted in that I work on a bit some evenings so I can only really do this on Tue / Thu / Fri, all being up to scratch at work.

So on the Mondays I can only be there at about 8, Wednesdays are out.

I am playing with the Hilly 50 route on Bikely for my GPS. Will start a thread on the main board when I know what I'm at. Train from Victoria OK for you?

rae

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #44 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:22:10 pm »
I'll try and make tomorrow night, calendar is clear right now.   Could do Wed/Thur as well.   I'll post at about 16:00 with confirmation...

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #45 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:23:26 pm »
Is that Richmond or Regents, Rae?

Vicky, just remembered I am doing the Cabbages and Coasts or whatever it is Audax on Saturday. Sunday? I might see if I can drag Jurek along  :P

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #46 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:26:20 pm »
I can only do Monday as I'm in Zurich Tues - Fri this week. I'll be n Richmond Park rather than Regents (I prefer it).

Sunday should be OK, as long as it's early and I have time to sleep in the pm.  ;)

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #47 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:27:29 pm »
Sunday should be OK, as long as it's early and I have time to sleep in the pm.  ;)

I'll work on it.  :)

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #48 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:32:23 pm »
Great. I need my relaxing Sunday afternoons these days, now that work's so damned demanding. I think it's middle age creeping up on me!  :o

Re: Get me going!
« Reply #49 on: 29 June, 2008, 11:40:32 pm »
Ach! Nonsense.

I'm about 2 decades older than you and I don't consider myself middle-aged yet.

Anyway that's why I was looking at the Hilly 50 route - can get nicely out of London with a short train trip, and straight into a good ride and a decent workout, great countryside, and back home in a relatively short period if other things are pressing.

First thing I need to do is to see if the trains are operating... will update ASAP.