Non-UK Rider

[Ian H]

i know Switzerland do as it's included in the carnet bikes have to display

I believe that Switzerland abolished this a few years ago.

J

None of my Swiss work colleagues have  mentioned this to me when I’ve taken my Airnimal to Basel

I remember them when I visited around 1969, but they were abolished long ago.

[Martin]

i know Switzerland do as it's included in the carnet bikes have to display

I believe that Switzerland abolished this a few years ago.

J

None of my Swiss work colleagues have  mentioned this to me when I’ve taken my Airnimal to Basel

I remember them when I visited around 1969, but they were abolished long ago.

if they were abolished it's been since 2007 as a former clubmate lived there and had all the stickers on his bike up to that year;

when I went there in 2012 non Swiss tourists on bikes were exempt and I rode in and out without any checks as did all the motorists (who did have to display the carnet)

Advised rider since non AUK member or CTC will need temporary membership  plus his own TPI.

no I think he just needs his own TPI, AUK membership not required or applicable in this case

[FifeingEejit]

Swiss Cycle CArnet was phased out in 2012
https://www.ch.ch/en/cycling-switzerland/

[Martin]

Swiss Cycle CArnet was phased out in 2012
https://www.ch.ch/en/cycling-switzerland/

ok thanks 

[Fidgetbuzz]

Martin .. that voyager thing looks interesting .. as they specifically state

Yes. This policy is available to residents of the European Economic Area (EEA).

European Economic Area (EEA) means Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and United Kingdom.

and

10. Personal Liability 2 Million   

BUT when you pursue the cost of a quote .. you will discover  that  solely  UK and Northern Ireland cover   is ONLY available to UK residents  . so the EEA member has to take out cover for Europe . At this point I stopped my exercise as I did not wish to provide personal details. Obtaining Personal Liability cover in UK for overseas residents is for some reason incredibly complex.

I thought you had  hit a possible route for LEL to explore .. but it now seems unlikely to be helpful

[Exit Stage Left]

That's why it strikes me that if you could join LRM, in the same way as joining AUK, and have a worldwide TPI, it might be useful.

There's an LRM meeting prior to PBP.

[jsabine]

no I think he just needs his own TPI, AUK membership not required or applicable in this case

He still needs to pay the three quid, as well as declaring that he has appropriate insurance ...

[jsabine]

That's why it strikes me that if you could join LRM, in the same way as joining AUK, and have a worldwide TPI, it might be useful.

There's an LRM meeting prior to PBP.

The meeting is immediately after PBP, I thought.

But the idea of individual membership of LRM would mean a fundamental shift in what LRM is - it's currently a worldwide sporting governing body rather than an organisation welcoming individual riders, even if its members are nominally one individual per territory ...

[Martin]

no I think he just needs his own TPI, AUK membership not required or applicable in this case

He still needs to pay the three quid, as well as declaring that he has appropriate insurance ...

But why? CUK members don't

[Martin]

Martin .. that voyager thing looks interesting .. as they specifically state

Yes. This policy is available to residents of the European Economic Area (EEA).

European Economic Area (EEA) means Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and United Kingdom.

and

10. Personal Liability 2 Million   

BUT when you pursue the cost of a quote .. you will discover  that  solely  UK and Northern Ireland cover   is ONLY available to UK residents  . so the EEA member has to take out cover for Europe . At this point I stopped my exercise as I did not wish to provide personal details. Obtaining Personal Liability cover in UK for overseas residents is for some reason incredibly complex.

I thought you had  hit a possible route for LEL to explore .. but it now seems unlikely to be helpful

yes you're right, and the Europe option only includes the continent, islands of the EU and the usual Mediterranean countries


so, back to square one, can't the rider buy a policy from his own country?

[frankly frankie]

no I think he just needs his own TPI, AUK membership not required or applicable in this case

He still needs to pay the three quid, as well as declaring that he has appropriate insurance ...

But why? CUK members don't

Because he's not a CUK member?

[Martin]

no I think he just needs his own TPI, AUK membership not required or applicable in this case

He still needs to pay the three quid, as well as declaring that he has appropriate insurance ...

But why? CUK members don't

Because he's not a CUK member?

but purchasing AUK day membership is worthless to him as it does not provide cover; and if he were to enter online there is no actual warning that he won't be covered


from the entry form


INSURANCE: Audax UK provides its members (inc.temporary) "normally resident in the UK" with 3rd party insurance cover throughout the event for claims in excess of £500.   3rd party insurance cover is limited to events taking place in Great Britain, the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.   Membership of a Cycling UK (CTC) affiliated club or group does not provide insurance cover you must have an individual or family Cycling UK (CTC) membership
Overseas residents must arrange their own 3rd party insurance.

[quixoticgeek]

but purchasing AUK day membership is worthless to him as it does not provide cover


from the entry form


INSURANCE: Audax UK provides its members (inc.temporary) "normally resident in the UK" with 3rd party insurance cover throughout the event for claims in excess of £500.   3rd party insurance cover is limited to events taking place in Great Britain, the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.   Membership of a Cycling UK (CTC) affiliated club or group does not provide insurance cover you must have an individual or family Cycling UK (CTC) membership
Overseas residents must arrange their own 3rd party insurance.

Just realised that even tho I'm a paid up AUK member, because I'm not resident in the UK, I need my own insurance... My travel insurance provides this, but I've only just twigged that my AUK membership doesn't cover me on AUK events...

J

[jsabine]

no I think he just needs his own TPI, AUK membership not required or applicable in this case

He still needs to pay the three quid, as well as declaring that he has appropriate insurance ...

But why? CUK members don't

Because he's not a CUK member?

but purchasing AUK day membership is worthless to him

Well, it entitles him to enter the ride. Opinions may vary as to the worth of that.

as it does not provide cover; and if he were to enter online there is no actual warning that he won't be covered

Oh yes there is ...

from the entry form


INSURANCE: Audax UK provides its members (inc.temporary) "normally resident in the UK" with 3rd party insurance cover throughout the event for claims in excess of £500.   3rd party insurance cover is limited to events taking place in Great Britain, the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.   Membership of a Cycling UK (CTC) affiliated club or group does not provide insurance cover you must have an individual or family Cycling UK (CTC) membership
Overseas residents must arrange their own 3rd party insurance.

This text appears during the online entry process too - the bit about overseas residents is even in bold.

[Martin]

OK, didn't get as far as the non-member entry page;

I'm not trying to diddle AUK out of £3 just wondering what it's for as CUK members don't have to pay it.

[grams]

The three quid is to pay for the lovely new website incentivise joining. Nothing really to do with insurance.

[Fidgetbuzz]

For a UK resident the £3 pays for temporary membership .. which for them happens to include the 3rd party cover that AUK rules state MUST be in place for all riders on an event.

AUK as far as I can tell have never got round to realising that temporary membership has no tangible benefit for a non UK resident .. but the regulation about 3rd party cover is still there . So all non UK residents have to find cover to the right level themselves. For some this may be inside an existing annual travel policy .. some may decide to self certify without actually having it . For many riders from the far east ( India is a huge problem on LEL ) 3rd party cover to £1M is just impossible to find in their own country. .

LEL is able to crack this by doing a  deal with Endsleigh .. which works because of the very large number of foreign riders involved .. but any ordinary organiser is never going to try to do a LEL deal for the very few non resident  riders on their event.

My view is that AUK should remove this mandatory requirement for 3rd party cover .. leaving it to each rider to make their own decisions.   I would suggest that most UK cyclists do not have 3rd party cover .. and do not find themselves facing large 3rd party claims. The recent case with a "faultless" cyclist facing large costs is likely to lead to large premium increases in AUKs insurance policy.. which may then trigger  a rethink about AUK providing 3rd party cover for all UK residents.

[quixoticgeek]

For a UK resident the £3 pays for temporary membership .. which for them happens to include the 3rd party cover that AUK rules state MUST be in place for all riders on an event.

AUK as far as I can tell have never got round to realising that temporary membership has no tangible benefit for a non UK resident .. but the regulation about 3rd party cover is still there . So all non UK residents have to find cover to the right level themselves. For some this may be inside an existing annual travel policy .. some may decide to self certify without actually having it . For many riders from the far east ( India is a huge problem on LEL ) 3rd party cover to £1M is just impossible to find in their own country. .

LEL is able to crack this by doing a  deal with Endsleigh .. which works because of the very large number of foreign riders involved .. but any ordinary organiser is never going to try to do a LEL deal for the very few non resident  riders on their event.

My view is that AUK should remove this mandatory requirement for 3rd party cover .. leaving it to each rider to make their own decisions.   I would suggest that most UK cyclists do not have 3rd party cover .. and do not find themselves facing large 3rd party claims. The recent case with a "faultless" cyclist facing large costs is likely to lead to large premium increases in AUKs insurance policy.. which may then trigger  a rethink about AUK providing 3rd party cover for all UK residents.

Is it not a case that the insurance that AUK has to cover AUK, requires riders to also be insured?

J

[Martin]

Obtaining Personal Liability cover in UK for overseas residents is for some reason incredibly complex.

although presumably no problem if they bring their own car or hire one here?

[Martin]

Is it not a case that the insurance that AUK has to cover AUK, requires riders to also be insured?
J

no only if they are non UK residents. My understanding is that it's a last resort thing if the rider has no other cover. If they did do away with it everyone could use CUK's (which I'm also in and is very good; also includes legal assistance)