Sturmey Archer front hub with drum brake

[DuncanM]

I have a Raleigh roadster bike with rod brakes that I really like.  Unfortunately, the brakes only come close to slowing me down in the dry.  If it's at all wet, they are almost entirely useless.  Sheldon's site says there is a hub model BF that has a hub brake and is designed for rod operation, but these don't seem to be in production.  SA make several cable actuated front hub brakes.

My questions are as follows:

1. Do they actually work (as in slow you down reasonably quickly)?
2. Do I need special forks or attachments on the forks to use them?
3. Can I use/bodge my current rod brake lever setup with extra rods to actuate either the BF or the cable operated hub brakes, or will I need to change to standard brake levers and cables?
4. If the answer to 3 is yes, but only for the BF, anyone know where I can get one?

All help gratefully recieved, as a practical, useful bike with 3 gears, chain guard and mudguards is not much use if you are unable to use it when there's water about.

Cheers
Duncan

[MikeFromLFE]

Right - I've dug out my 1961 'Cycling Book of Maintenance' (which is probably the most useful book I ever bought, and the most oil stained one too!).

It says (and I'd agree) "These [hub] brakes are usually very efficient and their stopping power is quite independent of the condition of the wheel rim or of the weather. At the same time they require attention..."

You will need a way of making sure that the Brake Lever attaches securely to the fork so that it does not move when under braking. This is normally a simple P clip on the fork, although special braze-ons were made I beleive.

The book implies - probably wisely - that the brake shoes can wear out(!) and my need replacing, and it's possible to get oil onto the brake shoes. Dissasembly looks straightforward if you want to check these two issues out.
The chapter's last sentence says ".... in order to line it up with the control wire or rod" - so it seems that rod brake control is a possibility - although it's something I've never seen, and how you would do a bodge Ive no idea!

[DuncanM]

Thanks for that information - I guess now I need to find one to build into a wheel.
I suspect oldbiketrader is the answer again...

[mrcharly-YHT]

I used to have a modern Al-bodied SA front hub brake.

Very good it was.

[border-rider]

I've got one on the trike, and I sold one to someone on here (sorry can't recall who) when we moved

They're good.  Better, I'd say, than a Shimano roller brake.  I did have a bit of trouble getting new pads when I wore them out.  In the end what you get is a complete new middle bit with the face plate and pads ready-mounted, and you just replace the old one.  If you can still find one...

[Bledlow]

I had a pair, front & rear, of the modern one for several years, ca 1986 to early 1990s. Worked well until the pads wore, but replacing the innards was much more hassle than for external brake pads. More expensive, too. Sold 'em with the bike.

[Ian H]

I take it you've tried leather pads (if you can still get them) for the existing brakes?

[DuncanM]

I haven't tried leather pads, but I can't imagine they would be great - the braking in the dry isn't exactly good.  I've tried the brakes with and without rust, and that doesn't seem to make much difference.

I don't want to be able to do stoppies/endoes (on this bike), but now I've put the saddle at a sensible height for pedalling, putting both feet on the floor is not possible, and riding it feels somewhat precarious.  Not a problem for 1st gear pootling on cycle lanes, but in traffic it would be lethal.

I figure hub brakes would be in keeping with the rest of the bike and give sufficient braking to make it into a useful utility bike.  If that won't work for whatever reason, then I guess a disk on the front might be the only option.  There's nowhere to mount cantis/V brakes or dual pivots (and I'd need to replace both the wheels/rims in that case anyway).

[Wobbly John]

The older steel bodied hubs faded on long desents - I've got them on my tandem. The body was the same as the hub dynamo, btw.

I've got one of the aluminium front hubs (needed for a project). They normally come with a clip to go on the forks, that leaves a slot for the tang of the reaction arm to slide in.

Unless you are a bit handy at DIY, it may be difficult to connect up to a rod brake system. The bits are probably not an 'off the shelf' item. The back drum brake on my tandem is rod operated, from below the drainpipe back. I fabricated the parts myself, mostly from stainless steel.

Many of the Pashley Royal Mail bikes have drum brakes. It might be worth a search on ebay, although I think the front wheels are a 24" size.

[DuncanM]

Unless you are a bit handy at DIY, it may be difficult to connect up to a rod brake system. The bits are probably not an 'off the shelf' item. The back drum brake on my tandem is rod operated, from below the drainpipe back. I fabricated the parts myself, mostly from stainless steel.

I would hope the front hub would be easier, but we'll see how that works out.  If I can't find a rod actuated one I'll have to try to bodge it with a cable one.  Worst case is that it ends up being cable hub brake on the front and rod brake on the back.  Won't be as pretty, but if it works...

Many of the Pashley Royal Mail bikes have drum brakes. It might be worth a search on ebay, although I think the front wheels are a 24" size.

Thanks, that's definitely worth knowing - I'll keep an eye out.

[DuncanM]

I now have a BFC hub.  Aside from the funky slots for the spokes the next problem is going to be working out how to connect the rods up to it.  Does anyone have any pictures of a front hub brake that is operated by rods - the linkages are going to be quite awkward and it would be nice to see how it was supposed to work...
Cheers
Duncan
Ps if not, and bodging doesn't work, I will fit a cable lever, but I'm loathe to do that as it changes the look of the bike, and if I wanted to do that I could have used modern wheels and canti's...

[CamPhil]

It may be worth looking at some old motorcycle designs to see how it works (you'll have to go back to rigid fork days though - a suspended fork is the reason they switched to cable operation).
All you need is a single rod that links the current brake-rod to the actuating arm on the hub.  Put the actuating arm pointing backwards or the rod will be stuck out in front of the fork.
Most drum brakes of that type will work whichever way you turn the cam, and it doesn't matter whether it was designed for cable or rod actuation - they both just pull on the actuating lever.
The rod does need to be straight, or it will flex in use and result in a "spongy" brake.
For adjustment, you need the bottom of the rod to be threaded, then you just put a cross-drilled barrel (I think this is called a clevis pin) through the actuating arm on the hub and a shaped nut behind (underneath) it - the side of the nut that bears on the barrel needs to be filed concave to fit, so that it can't loosen in service.
You can turn the nut with a spanner no problem, but it will self-locate in 180 degree steps.

Lots of little mopeds had (and maybe still have) suitable drum brakes, and if they are in spoked wheels (and many were) it should be possible to adapt them.
They might need some messing around with bearing sizes or axle length though, as well as the wheel build.  Check the spoke count!
As a bonus, spare pads will be available for many.

HTH

[Wobbly John]

If the lever looks like this, the cross drilled barrel will work - I used a cross dowel on my tandem and cut a thread on the 6mm rod (plus a knurled nut so it doesn't turn if slack).

Some front hubs had a lever that was drilled, which will make life a bit more difficult.

[DuncanM]

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'm going to see if I can leave the stirrup in place and bolt the extending rod to that instead of the brake pads - that way I keep as much as possible the same and avoid it all becoming too flexible.  I can also easily revert back to the rods operating on the rims if necessary.  Having a threaded on the end of the rod and using arounded furinture bolt is a very good idea though - thanks for that one.
You can see some pictures of the hub and the front of the bike here:
Flickr: duncancmartin's Photostream