Twisted spoke or snowflake wheel lacing

[Gattopardo]

I was thinking of attempting a snowflake wheel build like this : Twisted Spoke Bicycle Wheel Lacing - flowers!!/ the bike is going t be a hipster bike and labeled a fakenger to be sold to the hipsters in londinium.

In all seriousness I fancy having a go at this on a silly fixed gear bike but reading gets different views on the strength of these wheels.

[hubner]

A complete waste of time, looks ugly too.

Ideal for a silly "fixed gear" bike.

[gordon taylor]

I've built a couple but never managed to get the spoke length right - on both of mine the spokes were just too long to get the wheel fully tensioned. It wasn't the sort of project that encouraged me to keep going out to buy new spokes for another try.  

For fancy lacing, I prefer the three leading, three trailing pattern. I'll try to find an image later.

[andygates]

I met a guy on a train (as you do) who was riding an Inbred offroady thing with snowflakes, and it shure was purdy.  He said it ran just fine for that.

Not sure whether or not it'd torque up in weird ways.  The general rule is "everything is worse than three-cross"... but often only marginally worse, and better modern materials mean you can get away with a lot more than you used to.

Good luck! Post build pics!

[nuovo_record]

bike ambulance in cambridge do them - about £25 a wheel i think

[Gattopardo]

A complete waste of time, looks ugly too.

Ideal for a silly "fixed gear" bike.

and whilst riding the bike I can't see the wheels 

Pictures, of course will be provided for ridicule.

[Gattopardo]

Right in a bout of enthusiasm will get on with this today. Can't decide between a three cross with a twist at every cross or a three cross with a twist just at the second cross.

Will photograph the sillyness

[rogerzilla]

3L3T is funkier.

[Gattopardo]

3L3T is funkier.

Spokes aren't long enough   so one twist on the third cross for the front.  Truing it is going to be a git I think. So the rear will be a two twist on the third cross.

May change the front to two twist to be able to make truing easier.

Or I may go to sleep

[border-rider]

How on earth do you work out what the approx. spoke length should be ?

is it a case of buying very long ones and just putting in as many cross-overs/twists as it takes for them to work ?

<strangely tempted...>

[TimO]

Presumably truing becomes "interesting" because the tension in a spoke also effects the tension in the co-twisted spoke.

I imagine this also means that a broken spoke, aside from being a git to replace, would make the wheel go more out of true than would happen on a traditional non-snowflake wheel?

[Gattopardo]

How on earth do you work out what the approx. spoke length should be ?

is it a case of buying very long ones and just putting in as many cross-overs/twists as it takes for them to work ?

<strangely tempted...>

Guess at a bit longer, thats what I did.  Hence having the issue of running out of thread on the spokes to get a decent tension. Have taken a photo with a single twist and am thinking about about making the a two twist and see whats happens

[Gattopardo]

Presumably truing becomes "interesting" because the tension in a spoke also effects the tension in the co-twisted spoke.

I imagine this also means that a broken spoke, aside from being a git to replace, would make the wheel go more out of true than would happen on a traditional non-snowflake wheel?

I'll post photos tomorrrow of the single twist as I may try the two twist to get more tensionof the spokes.  It will also mean that with the two twist the spoke will go in to the hole on the rim it would with no twist.  Does that make sense.

[andygates]

IIRC, the calculation is 4mm of spoke per twist.  Looking forward to pics!

[Gattopardo]

Well I've flucked up.

One twist not enough tension, whilst two twist does all bar four spokes (1 of four pairs) the one is loose, really loose whilst the other, the shorter doesn't reach.  The hub is way off true even with all the spokes really loose.  Does that all make sense?

WTF have I got myself in to.  HELP before i go mad and smash everything up.

Going to do the rear wheel and do it as one pair per side instead of one side per time one pair at a time.

[clarion]

Three cross, lad.  Three cross.

[Gattopardo]

Three cross, lad.  Three cross.

I'm four crossed.

well the three cross with a double twist at the thirdd cross are finish and bloody hell it was difficult.

The first wheel took a hell of alot of fettling to get all the spokes to fit and tension but wow have I learnt a lesson.  Next time don't be so stupid.

[andygates]

Now flog it on ebay and buy a proper wheel and some BEER.

[Gattopardo]

Now flog it on ebay and buy a proper wheel and some BEER.

Its going on a hipster 501c framed fixed or single speed bike.  I'll link to the gumtree advert to make you all take the mickey out of me.  Oh and I now only drink the finest foreign beers that you could never pronounce from countries that you've never heard of.  They are so hip you have to drink them in a recumbent position.

  at myself

[clarion]

wow have I learnt a lesson.  Next time don't be so stupid.

Good one to learn, mate