Author Topic: winter road tyre recommendations  (Read 6483 times)

Ray 6701

  • SO @ T
    • Tamworth cycling club
winter road tyre recommendations
« on: 04 December, 2011, 02:38:42 pm »
Are there any 700/23 road tyres out there that are running a little bit of tread for the winter  ???
SR 2010/11/12/13/14/15
RRTY. PBP. LeJoG 1400. LEL.




Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #1 on: 04 December, 2011, 03:25:40 pm »
why are you asking for tread?

If it is for grip on tarmac, then slick gets better grip (GP4 seasons are very good in cold wet weather IME).

If you are riding on roads that have a bit of mud and leaves, then marathons I think are the best current option.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #2 on: 04 December, 2011, 05:05:43 pm »
Conti 4 Seasons win hands-down for me. They don't seem to cut, and very few visitations.

They are getting seriously expensive though!

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #3 on: 04 December, 2011, 05:34:01 pm »
Was happy with the Marathon Plus ( 25 wide ) on today's winter outing, where we had about a 6% climb in a inch or 2 of snow.   They were holding traction where I expected them to spin out.  There's a photo, in the SE Scotland Winter Rides thread on the Audax board.

<edit> here's the photo to save clicky clicky </edit>


Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #4 on: 04 December, 2011, 07:05:06 pm »
Schwalbe Durano Plus (23mm) are the ones I'm using on my winter bike (it won't take anything larger).

Andrij

  • Андрій
  • Ερασιτεχνικός μισάνθρωπος
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #5 on: 04 December, 2011, 07:38:44 pm »
I was impressed with the Conti 4 Seasons I had on the Ribble.  Never tried them in snow, but in those conditions I'd be using a different bike.
;D  Andrij.  I pronounce you Complete and Utter GIT   :thumbsup:

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #6 on: 04 December, 2011, 09:54:35 pm »
My preferred winter road tyre is the Michelin Pro Grip. With ice and snow it is MTB and studs.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #7 on: 04 December, 2011, 11:14:02 pm »
my favourite - marathon plus 700x25

Aushiker

  • Cyclist, bushwalker, phottographer (amaturer)
    • Aushiker: Bicycling and Hiking in Western Australia
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #8 on: 05 December, 2011, 12:16:06 am »
why are you asking for tread?

Common misconception about bicycle tyres being like car tyres me thinks.  Sheldon Brown has words of wisdom on the topic as does Josh Brandt.

Quote
Commercial aircraft, and especially motorcycles, demonstrate that a round cross section tire, like the bicycle tire, has an ideal shape to prevent hydroplaning. The contact patch, a pointed canoe shape, displaces water exceptionally well. In spite of this, hydroplaning seems to be a primary concern for riders who are afraid to use smooth tires. After assurances from motorcycle and aircraft examples, slipperiness on wet pavement appears as the next hurdle.

Benefits of smooth tread are not easily demonstrated because most bicycle riders seldom ride near the limit of traction in either curves or braking. There is no simple measure of elapsed time or lean angle that clearly demonstrates any advantage, partly because skill among riders varies greatly. However, machines that measure traction show that smooth tires corner better on both wet and dry pavement. In such tests, other things being equal, smooth tires achieve greater lean angles while having lower rolling resistance.

Tread patterns have no effect on surfaces in which they leave no impression. That is to say, if the road is harder than the tire, a tread pattern does not improve traction. That smooth tires have better dry traction is probably accepted by most bicyclists, but wet pavement still appears to raise doubts even though motorcycles have shown that tread patterns do not improve wet traction.

Andrew

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #9 on: 05 December, 2011, 06:37:25 am »
Or the op might be riding on roads that are muddy in winter-slicks just slide
<i>Marmite slave</i>

iakobski

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #10 on: 05 December, 2011, 05:54:09 pm »
My preferred winter road tyre is the Michelin Pro Grip. With ice and snow it is MTB and studs.

These.

After trying several tyres advertised as "four season" tyres and finding them slippery in the cold, I reluctantly gave these a go. I don't normally choose "racing" tyres and bizarrely I change from 25 or 28s in the summer to these 23s in the winter. The pro grip are fantastic - they stick like glue even when cold and damp. Ignore the fact they cut up more than a London cabbie, under the surface rubber is good puncture protection. The other ones were great above 5 degrees or so, but colder than that they started to slip around alarmingly, my theory is the rubber just gets harder in the cold. I get around 4000 km out of a rear which is not great but it lasts the cold months out.


mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #11 on: 06 December, 2011, 10:06:41 am »
Or the op might be riding on roads that are muddy in winter-slicks just slide
I've been wondering about this (yet again). There must be a transition point.

A very thin layer of mud is no different to water -  it reduces friction, but doesn't create aquaplaning. It's like oil on the road. So slicks (and grippy rubber) win.

But we know that deep mud (or sand, or gravel, or I guess anything that moves around) benefits a knobbly (treaded) tyre.

So there are probably tarmac conditions in a 'grey'* area between the two! I can't say I've ever noticed my slicks sliding on mud, but the stuff is around (albeit in smaller quantities) right through the summer - which of course is often wet in the UK. Leaves come into it in autumn/winter.

*Beige?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #12 on: 06 December, 2011, 11:05:58 am »
When I first started commuting to leeds, my route took me past a large construction site. The lorries dragged mud onto the road for a half-mile or so (thick enough that it completely covered the bluestone in parts).
   
I was running sport contacts at the time, and these just slid all over the place when passing over the mud. Just like hitting a small patch of ice. The tyres also picked up a slimy layer of mud and were a bit twitchy for a few miles past the muddy area until the slime wore off.

I switched to Paselas and these were much much better. Not really much tread at all, but it was enough to get a bite on the mud.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #13 on: 06 December, 2011, 11:37:09 am »
why are you asking for tread?

Common misconception about bicycle tyres being like car tyres me thinks.  Sheldon Brown has words of wisdom on the topic as does Josh Brandt.

Quote
Commercial aircraft, and especially motorcycles, demonstrate that a round cross section tire, like the bicycle tire, has an ideal shape to prevent hydroplaning. The contact patch, a pointed canoe shape, displaces water exceptionally well. In spite of this, hydroplaning seems to be a primary concern for riders who are afraid to use smooth tires. After assurances from motorcycle and aircraft examples, slipperiness on wet pavement appears as the next hurdle.

Benefits of smooth tread are not easily demonstrated because most bicycle riders seldom ride near the limit of traction in either curves or braking. There is no simple measure of elapsed time or lean angle that clearly demonstrates any advantage, partly because skill among riders varies greatly. However, machines that measure traction show that smooth tires corner better on both wet and dry pavement. In such tests, other things being equal, smooth tires achieve greater lean angles while having lower rolling resistance.

Tread patterns have no effect on surfaces in which they leave no impression. That is to say, if the road is harder than the tire, a tread pattern does not improve traction. That smooth tires have better dry traction is probably accepted by most bicyclists, but wet pavement still appears to raise doubts even though motorcycles have shown that tread patterns do not improve wet traction.

Andrew

As I think you probably appreciate, this isn't as full an explanation as it might be. Aquaplaning ('hydroplaning') is when water gets completely between the tyre and the road surface, reducing the friction to zero. As Sheldon says, the bicycle tyre's shape makes it less prone to aquaplaning, but perhaps more important is its width (or lack of it) and relatively high inflation pressure. As aquaplaning isn't a factor, there is no need for a tread that dissipates water (the main reason for a tread in road car tyres). Any tread pattern reduces the maximum amount of tyre in contact with the road surface, and it's the interaction of the tyre's material with the road's material (the coefficient of friction) that provides the grip.

More important in what makes a good cold- and wet-weather tyre is its ability to distort in low temperatures and thus extract the maximum friction from that road/tyre interface, and this is a function of the compound construction of the tyre. Summer tyres (car or bike) harden in cold weather, and give poorer performance. Despite the unlikelihood of aquaplaning for bicycles, the presence of water will still reduce the coefficient of friction between a tyre and the road, and thus the maximum available grip.

On bike tyres (but not car tyres), tread is for snow and/or mud.

Ray 6701

  • SO @ T
    • Tamworth cycling club
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #14 on: 06 December, 2011, 12:07:32 pm »
I'm looking for something that may improve my grip when the weather turns but it looks like I'll be getting the MTB out for the commute.
SR 2010/11/12/13/14/15
RRTY. PBP. LeJoG 1400. LEL.




citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #15 on: 09 December, 2011, 12:40:12 pm »
Or the op might be riding on roads that are muddy in winter-slicks just slide
I've been wondering about this (yet again). There must be a transition point.

A very thin layer of mud is no different to water -  it reduces friction, but doesn't create aquaplaning. It's like oil on the road. So slicks (and grippy rubber) win.

My last off was in precisely these conditions. I had CX tyres on the bike at the time. Very skittish on muddy tarmac! Conversely, I'm reasonably confident in the same conditions, on the same bike but with Durano Plus tyres fitted.

Conti 4 Seasons are also good, IME, but Durano Plus seem to me to be a wee bit more grippy and have better puncture protection. Conti 4 Seasons seem to be equivalent to regular Durano for puncture protection - both still pretty good in that respect but they don't have that extra layer of protection that Durano Plus have [Durano Plus being essentially a skinny, slick version of Marathon Plus].

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #16 on: 09 December, 2011, 12:46:02 pm »
How odd - my experience of Durano Plus is that they have all the grip of a greased tray on an ice-skating rink.  YMMV I guess
<i>Marmite slave</i>

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #17 on: 09 December, 2011, 01:05:24 pm »
How odd - my experience of Durano Plus is that they have all the grip of a greased tray on an ice-skating rink.  YMMV I guess

Do you have them pumped up very hard? I tend to have them no higher than 95-100psi, which might make a difference perhaps?

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #18 on: 09 December, 2011, 02:10:35 pm »
Yes - I found them slow and 'squidgy' at 100psi, so followed Grub's advice and whacked them up to 115. Rolls much better.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #19 on: 11 December, 2011, 10:24:47 am »
Marathon Pluses are brilliant if you can fit them (the 700 x 25 size is the worst, and people resort to zip ties and toestraps to stop them popping out of the rim until the last bitof tyre is pushed over) and if you can put up with the weight.  They roll perfectly well but they are extremely heavy.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #20 on: 11 December, 2011, 10:42:49 am »
I have not noticed any handling differences between the Durano Plus or the Michelin Krylion.  I have noticed better fairy protection and longivity from the Duranos though.  I have 23c on the Etape and 25c on the fixed.
The only bike to still run the Krylions is the TCR and that is because I had some in the cupboard ( and still do ) from a year ago.

Saw this yesterday, might be of interest......

http://www.cyclingactive.com/bikesgear/7-of-the-best-premium-winter-tyres

border-rider

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #21 on: 11 December, 2011, 10:51:22 am »
Marathon Pluses are brilliant if you can fit them...

I find them very skiddy, quite a hard compound I think. The best for grip I've found are Michelin World Tours, but they're heavy, slow and puncture if you look at them sideways

Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #22 on: 11 December, 2011, 12:44:25 pm »
I have not noticed any handling differences between the Durano Plus or the Michelin Krylion.  I have noticed better fairy protection and longivity from the Duranos though.  I have 23c on the Etape and 25c on the fixed.
The only bike to still run the Krylions is the TCR and that is because I had some in the cupboard ( and still do ) from a year ago.

Saw this yesterday, might be of interest......

http://www.cyclingactive.com/bikesgear/7-of-the-best-premium-winter-tyres
Interesting, but bloody stupid that they chose to test the gatorskin rather than conti's winter tyre, the gp4 seasons
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #23 on: 11 December, 2011, 01:18:48 pm »
Marathon Pluses are brilliant if you can fit them (the 700 x 25 size is the worst, and people resort to zip ties and toestraps to stop them popping out of the rim until the last bitof tyre is pushed over) and if you can put up with the weight.  They roll perfectly well but they are extremely heavy.

Yes, you really could do with 4 hands to get them started.

However, I think it's a bit of a push to describe *any* tyre as extremely heavy. ( Except possibly the 255/60R18 on the Carbon Pig. )
The total weight difference of the bike+rider is going to be vanishingly small.
And I have not yet crashed into a hedge due to the gyroscopic effect of the massive flywheels which my wheels have become  :)

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: winter road tyre recommendations
« Reply #24 on: 11 December, 2011, 02:50:11 pm »
Marathon Pluses are brilliant if you can fit them (the 700 x 25 size is the worst, and people resort to zip ties and toestraps to stop them popping out of the rim until the last bitof tyre is pushed over) and if you can put up with the weight.  They roll perfectly well but they are extremely heavy.

If you're going to make Marathon Pluses a part of your life, it's well worth investing in a VAR lever.  The straps-and-pain method works, but there's a non-zero risk of pinching the tube (at least with the sharper angles of small wheels), and I really wouldn't want to do it at the roadside.  The VAR lever, OTOH, just magics them into place.