Author Topic: winter road tyre recommendations (Read 6482 times)

border-rider · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 December, 2011, 03:00:58 pm »

Quote from: Feanor on 11 December, 2011, 01:18:48 pm

And I have not yet crashed into a hedge due to the gyroscopic effect of the massive flywheels which my wheels have become

Marathon Plusses vs Panaracers of the same size is sufficient difference to my Pompino that when it is fixed I have to walk up the hill from our house.

vindec · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 December, 2011, 04:26:31 pm »

As I've now used M+ for 2 years and not had a single visitation from the winged humanoids of small stature, I thoroughly recommend them. Even so, I still carry a VAR lever, regular levers and toe strap - just in case. And frankly, if you're willing to put up with the weight of the M+ then you're probably OK with carrying the tools and, yes I admit it, a spare tyre too.

zigzag · « **Reply #27 on:** 11 December, 2011, 04:50:02 pm »

people keep telling stories how hard m+ tyres are to get on/off the rim, but that was not my experience with two different set of rims (mavic a319 and rigida snyper). two standard tyre levers did the job perfectly fine. the most difficult tyres to install in my cycling life were schwalbe kojak on dahon 20" rims - i managed to get them on, but wished i'd had a var tool.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #28 on:** 11 December, 2011, 05:22:32 pm »

Quote from: Feanor on 11 December, 2011, 01:18:48 pm

However, I think it's a bit of a push to describe *any* tyre as extremely heavy. ( Except possibly the 255/60R18 on the Carbon Pig. )

Rotating mass matters far more than non-rotating mass on the bike.

winter marathons weigh nearly a kilogram each. It takes more effort setting off with these on the bike than setting off with 20kg in the panniers.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #29 on:** 11 December, 2011, 05:36:47 pm »

Quote from: Mal Volio on 11 December, 2011, 10:51:22 am

Quote from: rogerzilla on 11 December, 2011, 10:24:47 am
Marathon Pluses are brilliant if you can fit them...

I find them very skiddy, quite a hard compound I think. The best for grip I've found are Michelin World Tours, but they're heavy, slow and puncture if you look at them sideways

I find them infinitely better than the Fortezza Quattro tyres I used the winter before I changed; they were lethal on roundabouts and I actually crashed a couple of times.

Andrew Br · « **Reply #30 on:** 11 December, 2011, 10:20:30 pm »

It's early days (as in 320 miles) so far but I'm becoming more and more impressed with the grip of my Vittoria Pave SGs. I'm still working to find their grip limits since TEH FEAR engendered by 2500+ miles on Gatorskins has instilled a degree of caution.
So far they've answered all the questions I've asked of them on wet and muddy roads and my confidence is growing*. They're very reassuring.
It's a shame that they're also so expensive and so green.

*That's buggered it; next week I'll be posting about my broken hip/collar bone/wrist/bike/dignity.

citoyen · « **Reply #31 on:** 12 December, 2011, 12:18:21 am »

Quote from: mrcharly on 11 December, 2011, 05:22:32 pm

winter marathons weigh nearly a kilogram each. It takes more effort setting off with these on the bike than setting off with 20kg in the panniers.

Hell yeah. Marathon Winters are great tyres but you really do notice the weight.

Small price to pay for being able to ride safely on icy roads though.

d.

David Martin · « **Reply #32 on:** 12 December, 2011, 10:51:47 am »

I fitted the Nokians to the 'off road' wheels yesterday. Surprisingly not too heavy on the road (I have W106 to get reasonable tarmac performance whilst retaining some soft stuff grip[1]). Back on the road wheels for commuting as the temp is still well over freezing but I will have to fix the broken spoke - hooray for discs allowing a bit of wobble in the rim.

[1] As opposed to a full on off road tread which would be really draggy on the dry stuff. The A10 are great for mostly tarmac, but terrible in any kind of snow as the tread is too slight.

citoyen · « **Reply #33 on:** 12 December, 2011, 11:13:48 am »

Quote from: David Martin on 12 December, 2011, 10:51:47 am

I fitted the Nokians to the 'off road' wheels yesterday. Surprisingly not too heavy on the road (I have W106 to get reasonable tarmac performance whilst retaining some soft stuff grip[1]).
[1] As opposed to a full on off road tread which would be really draggy on the dry stuff. The A10 are great for mostly tarmac, but terrible in any kind of snow as the tread is too slight.

Do you know how the Nokians compare to the Marathon Winter? It's interesting looking at the different tread and spike patterns. I've found the MW excellent on smooth ice, but not so great on deep, rutted ice and snow. I like the way the MW have two rows of spikes, to provide grip on ice both when cornering and on the straight.

The A10 seem to only have the equivalent of the outer row, but I wonder if you really need the inner row when riding on the road? After all, it's when you start to slide that the spikes kick in and do their job.

The W106 on the other hand seem to have only the equivalent of the inner row, so I might be a bit more wary of cornering on icy roads on them.

d.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 December, 2011, 11:19:54 am »

A canadian from the bikeforums forum reckoned the W106 were superior if you are riding on snow with ice, and Marathon Winter were best if riding on tarmac with ice and a bit of snow.

David Martin · « **Reply #35 on:** 12 December, 2011, 11:28:30 am »

That would figure. The Winter are more like the A10 (a hybrid type tread pattern) wheras the W106 are neither fish nor fowl but a compromise. More aggressive tread than a hybrid but not as gnarly and energy sucking as a full MTB tyre.

They do OK in mud though. I'm running them at about 50psi until it gets cold and I really need them, at which time I'll drop the pressure to 40ish.

citoyen · « **Reply #36 on:** 12 December, 2011, 11:33:31 am »

Yes, that sounds plausible. That bit of extra tread on the W106 probably makes a difference.

d.

David Martin · « **Reply #37 on:** 12 December, 2011, 12:52:19 pm »

I chose the W106 to give off tarmac grip whilst retaining some semblence of rollability. They do work very well. If I was a mad keen mountain biker (at present I make heavy use of the 24" gear if things look a bit too gnarly) then I would probably have invested in somethign more extreme. But for the road with occasional deeper snow, the 106 are a good compromise. And as I don't go very far on them the extra resistance doesn't make much difference.

andrew_s · « **Reply #38 on:** 12 December, 2011, 02:01:01 pm »

Quote from: citoyen on 12 December, 2011, 11:13:48 am

The A10 seem to only have the equivalent of the outer row, but I wonder if you really need the inner row when riding on the road?

Are the A10 still available? They aren't on the company website, and a cursory search didn't find any for sale.

With having just the outer row of spikes, the idea is that you reduce the tyre pressure to allow them to bite when it's icy, and have high pressure when it's clear to keep the spikes mostly off the road.
I very much doubt that the two or so spikes in contact with the road would give enough grip to stop a big slide that has a fully inflated tyre leant over far enough for them to bite. You'd just get scratch marks across the ice. I got dumped by MW at 70psi last winter, just riding in a straight line.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #39 on:** 12 December, 2011, 02:10:27 pm »

Only listed under very odd size (584)

http://www.suomityres.fi/hkplstud.html

The 106 seems to be their road/700c tyre now.

[edit] I have the distributor's pricelist. the A10 is listed on that (16,30 euros each, delivered, if you order 1000).

andrew_s · « **Reply #40 on:** 12 December, 2011, 02:22:50 pm »

Quote from: mrcharly on 12 December, 2011, 02:10:27 pm

Only listed under very odd size (584)

584 is 650B.
I had noticed it, but it didn't stick in the memory as it was of no interest

DrMekon · « **Reply #41 on:** 12 December, 2011, 02:36:18 pm »

Quote from: citoyen on 12 December, 2011, 12:18:21 am

Quote from: mrcharly on 11 December, 2011, 05:22:32 pm
winter marathons weigh nearly a kilogram each. It takes more effort setting off with these on the bike than setting off with 20kg in the panniers.

Hell yeah. Marathon Winters are great tyres but you really do notice the weight.

Small price to pay for being able to ride safely on icy roads though.

d.

Small price to pay? I had my first commute in with winters today. Admittedly, I still have a couple of days on antibiotics left and my chest infection appears to be enjoying the challenge, but it was a grind. The noise is oppressive. Also, I don't have an awful lot of confidence in corners compared to my usual tyres. If I wasn't so short of time during the week, I'd take them on and off as required. In fact, I think I'll go back to my geared bike until I really need them. Perhaps I'll feel more positive about them once the temp drops a bit more.

citoyen · « **Reply #42 on:** 12 December, 2011, 02:44:31 pm »

Well, I think it's a small price to pay, but then I'm not doing anything like your kind of mileage, DrM.

I've not actually fitted mine yet - playing chicken a bit. It was too wet this morning to be icy, but I don't know how much longer I can get away with it.

d.

Kim · « **Reply #43 on:** 12 December, 2011, 02:48:32 pm »

I don't think they feel *that* different to similar knobblies^[1]. Obviously they're going to be vague in corners compared to slicks, but it's hardly taking-corners-at-speeds-in-excess-of-R17 season anyway.

Agreed about the noise, though. When we first took the baraktacycle out, I had the Winters fitted to my hybrid to bed them in, and found that while she could hear me fine on account of the radio mic in my jersey, I couldn't hear most of what she said over the noise of my own tyres.

Personally, I'm going to be re-fitting mine soon. On the basis that when the ice does come, I'll have a feel for how the bike handles on the Winters and therefore a better sense of what's a traction issue and what's just normal for the tyres.

_{[1] I also have a set of Marathon Cross, which roll somewhat better, but handle much the same on corners.}

Sergeant Pluck · « **Reply #44 on:** 12 December, 2011, 02:56:13 pm »

Quote from: DrMekon on 12 December, 2011, 02:36:18 pm

The noise is oppressive

I rather like the noise. I do hope that I'll get a chance to put them on the commuter this year; so far we are yet to even have a frost in London.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #45 on:** 12 December, 2011, 02:59:22 pm »

I haven't yet commuted on mine. Done about 40-50miles of miscellaneous riding, but the tyres are so slow, I'm almost scared of trying the trip to Leeds and back. On bare tarmac, I reckon they knock 3mph off my speed for the same effort.

ATM, I'm only seeing small patches of black ice, and could avoid most of it by small changes in route. No cold weather predicted until next week, and I'm off work then.

David Martin · « **Reply #46 on:** 12 December, 2011, 03:20:35 pm »

They definitely knock something off your speed. The best bet (if you have the facilities) is two sets of wheels, one with winter tyres and one with normal ones. Swapping tyres is a faff. Swapping wheels less so (apart from rear wheels with disk brakes which are a pain to line up.)

I found that the difference between winter, semislick and road slick was a minimum of 5km/h each.

..d

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #47 on:** 12 December, 2011, 03:32:25 pm »

I have two bikes.

Trouble is, I can set off and have 5 miles of cycle path with black ice followed by 20 miles of clear road. then on the way home, no ice whatsoever. If I could magically switch tyres halfway, that would be great.

mattc · « **Reply #48 on:** 12 December, 2011, 04:01:41 pm »

There is a certain irony here. Whenever the motons crash in wintery conditions, we remind them that speed shouldn't be their main priority!

Kim · « **Reply #49 on:** 12 December, 2011, 04:08:13 pm »

Where winter conditions are involved, avoiding injury and the cost of replacement bike parts / clothing is my main priority. Taking it easy on studded tyres beats the alternatives of walking or public transport.

YMMV.

Author Topic: winter road tyre recommendations (Read 6482 times)

border-rider