Rose bikes stops selling to the UK

[Cudzoziemiec]

Return of the Kitemark?

All the one-item per year sellers will be shoved on to platforms: ebay, Amazon, Ali, etc.

[rafletcher]

UK will align with CE.  Even now, when we sell to no EU countries (we as in the company I work for) most want the assurance that a CE mark implies, in the absence of anything else, in terms of quality assurance and quality control. The major exception is the USA.

[giropaul]

Connected, if not entirely, I notice that Planet X will not be taking non-U.K. orders, at least at the moment, citing chaos and significant holdups with parcel movements across the U.K./ EU borders.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I wonder who's delivering to Northern Ireland right now?

[Davef]

The value U.K. bike market is more than the combined bike market of the 23 smallest EU countries. There will be inevitable teething problems but I think they will be short term.

Looking at shimano which by value is 80% of worldwide bike components, after the EU the U.K. is the second biggest market just pipping the US.  (Though the combined sales to all Asian and pacific countries exceeds the eu, they are all separate markets).

It may be there will be some manufacturers who decide to sell exclusively to the eu and not the rest of the world, but I find it unlikely.

Thing is, this isn't going to be a problem for Shimano, or Campag, or any big name. The market in the UK is big, they are big players, *AND* they do not sell direct to the consumer. If you sell through a distributor, then chances are that the £135 quid or whatever HMRC are charging, is not going to be a major hurdle. Annoying yes, but bigger than the total value of your sales to the UK? no.

The new rules are awkward for anyone who sells direct to the consumer, and has a small turnover. Such as [url]https://www.rusjan.eu/?_=_[/img] bespoke bikpacking bags. A 13 saddle bag is €220. If you are only making one sale to the UK per year, then paying £135 to register with HMRC is not worth it. How many do you have to sell per year to make it worth while?

Rose obviously think they do not sell enough to the UK to make it worth swallowing these costs. No doubt other companies have reached the same conclusion.

The target of these new rules from an EU point of view was to get a slice of the pie from all that small cheap stuff we buy from aliexpress and the like. Unfortunately they have kinda shot the smaller businesses at the same time. The simple solution for many of these small sellers for selling to the EU will be to list the item on ebay or amazon, and the online market place will do everything for them, they print the label that ebay/amazon etc... give them, job done.

The rule were written for a trading block of half a billion rich people. They do not scale to 65 million people who's wealth is dropping...

Oh, and if you think this is all complicated and confusing now.

From 16th of July 2021, the EU is going to change the rules about how the CE mark works. The basic principle being that all good that require a CE mark, will also require a registered responsible agent that is permanently within the EU. The idea being that even if you make your bike lights in china, and sell direct to consumers within the EU, you will be required to have someone within the EU who is legally responsible for the accreditation of the CE marked item. Not an issue if you're a manufacturer in China, and you sell your products to Farnell, who then sell them to the end user, Farnell becomes that responsible party. But if you are say an Australian bike light manufacturer, and you sell direct to EU consumers, you have to have an agent resident within the EU to act on your behalf.

Oh, and as for what the fuck the UK is doing with it's alternative to a CE mark... and whether anyone can be arsed faffing about jumping through those hoops in addition to the hoops necessary for the CE marking... only time will tell...

J

It is free to register for vat. £135 is the value of goods it comes in at. The HMRC aren’t charging anyone. The £1000 a year is what some accountant has quoted for filling in two boxes on an electronic form.

Edit: That was poorly written. It is for small value goods below £135 that currently sneak through. For orders over £135 it is dealt with by customs.

[rogerzilla]

Might as well just buy stuff from China.  It sneaks through as a $5 trade sample most of the time anyway. 

[Davef]

Might as well just buy stuff from China.  It sneaks through as a $5 trade sample most of the time anyway.

Not anymore. Low value consignent relief on imports of less than £15 was abolished on the 1st jan.

[ppg]

Oh, and as for what the fuck the UK is doing with it's alternative to a CE mark... and whether anyone can be arsed faffing about jumping through those hoops in addition to the hoops necessary for the CE marking... only time will tell...
J

https://www.technologyinternational.co.uk/ukca-mark-regulations
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-ukca-marking

I'm confident it will be policed and enforced as vigorously as current CE regulations 

[sojournermike]

Might as well just buy stuff from China.  It sneaks through as a $5 trade sample most of the time anyway.

Not anymore. Low value consignent relief on imports of less than £15 was abolished on the 1st jan.

Yep, I paid vat on a pair of rims recently. It wasn't painful, apart from the charge to collect it by the carrier

[Polar Bear]

I read somewhere today that due to brexit Brooks are temporarily at least unable to import back into the UK for sale saddles made here in Smethwick.  Seems daft as all saddles are exported to Italy after manufacture for distribution on including back to the UK. 

Brexit bonus I guess.

[Davef]

I read somewhere today that due to brexit Brooks are temporarily at least unable to import back into the UK for sale saddles made here in Smethwick.  Seems daft as all saddles are exported to Italy after manufacture for distribution on including back to the UK. 

Brexit bonus I guess.

It is brooks Italian owner that is not yet set up for direct sales to consumers in the U.K. I am sure they will be in a couple of weeks, it was all a bit last minute. That said I can’t see a real rush as very few people purchase at rrp directly from brooks when they are cheaper elsewhere.

[zigzag]

a bit off-topic but ebay uk charges 20% extra (vat) if you buy stuff from foreign (or is it only the eu?) sellers

[quixoticgeek]

a bit off-topic but ebay uk charges 20% extra (vat) if you buy stuff from foreign (or is it only the eu?) sellers

That is correct behavior. Ebay is the Online Market Place, and it collects the vat, and hands it to HMRC. The seller just needs to make sure to put that on the paperwork, so that you don't get charged twice.

J

[hubner]

What if the Ebay seller is outside the UK (registered outside the UK and selling on Ebay UK in Sterling) but the item's actually already in the UK, ie the item is sent from a UK warehouse?

[Davef]

What if the Ebay seller is outside the UK (registered outside the UK and selling on Ebay UK in Sterling) but the item's actually already in the UK, ie the item is sent from a UK warehouse?

From HMRC:
Goods that are in the UK at the point of sale

Importing goods to sell through online marketplaces
The overseas seller will remain liable for any import VAT and Customs Duty when the goods are first imported into the UK.

When the goods are sold to the customer, the overseas seller will be considered to have made a zero-rated supply of the goods to the online marketplace. The overseas supplier does not have to issue invoices to the online marketplace for supplies that are considered to be zero-rated.

UK VAT will be charged at the point of sale.

The online marketplace will be liable to account for the VAT on the sales made through its marketplace, unless the goods are for a business customer who gives them their UK VAT registration number.

[quixoticgeek]

BBC now reporting on it...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55530721

Took em long enough...

J

[rafletcher]

It'll vary by business of course. I buy pet food online, from a Netherland based company. They emailed me  a while ago, confirming that they would continue to supply the UK, from their Coventry distribution centre. I just checked their (.co.uk) website and apart from a warning about delays, it still seems active. I haven't tried an order, I stocked up a few weeks ago.

[hubner]

BBC now reporting on it...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55530721

Took em long enough...

J

And of course doesn't mention that it's EU law that the UK and EU has decided to keep.

[quixoticgeek]

It'll vary by business of course. I buy pet food online, from a Netherland based company. They emailed me  a while ago, confirming that they would continue to supply the UK, from their Coventry distribution centre. I just checked their (.co.uk) website and apart from a warning about delays, it still seems active. I haven't tried an order, I stocked up a few weeks ago.

They have a distribution centre within the UK. Therefore, while you are buying from a Dutch company, the products are fulfilled in the UK. Thus makes no difference, and the issues with them having issues with getting stock to that facility are not yours. They are abstracted away.

That is a different situation than if the Dutch company where sending it from a warehouse in Almere...

J

[Davef]

BBC now reporting on it...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55530721

Took em long enough...

J

Good to see it is quoting nonsense

"For providing this service, [HMRC] intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK," said Dutch Bike Bits on its website.

[hubner]

BBC now reporting on it...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55530721

Took em long enough...

J

Good to see it is quoting nonsense

"For providing this service, [HMRC] intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK," said Dutch Bike Bits on its website.

The BBC is quite subtle in its bias.

[Cudzoziemiec]

BBC now reporting on it...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55530721

Took em long enough...

J

Good to see it is quoting nonsense

"For providing this service, [HMRC] intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK," said Dutch Bike Bits on its website.

No, I'm pretty sure that's correct. It's not just EU to UK, it applies worldwide (and as someone said a few posts up there, it was originally designed as Whole World to EU – and probably biased, deliberately or not, towards those Dutch Pet Food situations, ie wholesale, where it will actually work).

[Davef]

BBC now reporting on it...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55530721

Took em long enough...

J

Good to see it is quoting nonsense

"For providing this service, [HMRC] intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK," said Dutch Bike Bits on its website.

No, I'm pretty sure that's correct. It's not just EU to UK, it applies worldwide (and as someone said a few posts up there, it was originally designed as Whole World to EU – and probably biased, deliberately or not, towards those Dutch Pet Food situations, ie wholesale, where it will actually work).

The HMRC aren’t charging any fee. You have charge customers VAT and hand that tax you collect to the HMRC. That is not a fee. You will need to send in a VAT return. To do that you might need software which you might have to pay for.

Edit: it won’t affect wholesale. It is for transactions below £135.

[Ashaman42]

I thought there was a registration fee?

[hubner]

What if the Ebay seller is outside the UK (registered outside the UK and selling on Ebay UK in Sterling) but the item's actually already in the UK, ie the item is sent from a UK warehouse?

To answer myself, I was thinking of dropshippers where the seller doesn't have any stock and uses a third party which sends the goods to the buyer.

I just checked one item and it's gone up by 20%, and it's sent from the UK.

I think it doesn't matter if the item is in the UK or not, as the listing states the item location as China.