Mountain bike: whaddaya reckon?

[PaulF]

Just come back from an 'activity' holiday and their bikes were Specialized - I was very impressed with them. The models that they had were at a similar price to what you are looking at. If I were in the market for an MTB I'd probably go for a Specialized.

[PhilO]

Just come back from an 'activity' holiday and their bikes were Specialized - I was very impressed with them. The models that they had were at a similar price to what you are looking at. If I were in the market for an MTB I'd probably go for a Specialized.

They are good value - but don't forget that fit and body shape is important. I went into some detail on this thread in the Old Place, which might be of help.

My limited experience of Specialized suggests that they do a good middle-of-the-road geometry. If you're long or short in the body, another manufacturer might work better. Test rides are really needed...

[Otto]

Looks like a nice bike. I am riding a rockhopper comp disk 2007 version, and really like it.

The only aspect of the alu frame I am not happy with, is that I have managed to strip the threads in two of the bosses.

Me too great bike...havn't stripped the threads though

[andygates]

Yup Spesh make good bikes.  The Hard Rock > Rockhopper > Stumpjumper range has a pedigree going back to when I did paper rounds. 

[Kathy]

Having tested the Myka Pro at a helpful LBS, decided that I liked it, and ordered it through the Cycle to Work scheme, it would appear to be out of stock with the suppliers to whom we are tied.

So I'm trying to come up with an alternative. The following bikes are all similarly specc'd, and in roughly the same price bracket. Does anyone have any klnowledge or advice on any of 'em?

Scott Contessa 10

Giant Arete 2

Kona Lisa HT

(I'm quite taken by the Cannondale Caffiene Feminine, but that's mostly because of the name. It's £200 more than I intended to spend, and I've very little experience of MTBing so it would probably be wasted on me).

[bikenerd]

Scott: too racey, only an 80mm fork, which usually means a race bike nowadays.  It will be stiff and twitchy.
The Giant: the only Giant MTB I've had was also too racey.  I sold it 'cos it gave me back ache!
The Kona: looks a bit more like a "trail" bike, should be the more rideable of the 3.

But, as always, go and sit on one and jump off curbs, etc.

[Kathy]

But, as always, go and sit on one and jump off curbs, etc.

Problem is, I can't. I did with the Specialised, because my LBS stock Specialised. I can't with the others, because this is a work scheme and we're ordering online, and I don't have access to any of the other bikes to try them.

[PaulF]

I wouldn't get too hung up on a test ride if you're not familiar with mtbs. Have a look around, take some advice from here and go with your instinct. It's easy to over analyse Just make sure that you get the right size

I used the same logic when I bought my first road bike in 30 years; as I hadn't ridden a road bike in so long I didn't think that a short test ride would tell me much between models. Instead I went for what seemed the best value, a Ribble purchased on line. With 9 months experience there's a few things that I'd change but I doubt that I'd have realised that at the time

[nuttycyclist]

I wouldn't get too hung up on a test ride if you're not familiar with mtbs.....

I ALWAYS repeat ALWAYS test ride bikes before buying.

I shortlisted 3 bikes once, all were identically and correctly sized.  On test riding two of them they were really uncomfy and I wouldn't have ridden them over 2 miles.  The third was a joy to ride.  It's the MTB I did the 2005 Dun Run on (it had already clocked many thousands of miles).

[PhilO]

I haven't time to look at the geometry, ATM, but

Scott: too racey, only an 80mm fork, which usually means a race bike nowadays.  It will be stiff and twitchy.

Which isn't necessarily a problem for somebody who's used to a road bike - an 'All Mountain' setup may feel ridiculously short if you're not used to it...

The Giant: the only Giant MTB I've had was also too racey.  I sold it 'cos it gave me back ache!

Giant make bikes in all flavours - dismissing an entire range on the basis of one bike is, frankly, daft.

The Kona: looks a bit more like a "trail" bike, should be the more rideable of the 3.

Hmmm... Konas are very nice bikes, and I doubt if you'd go far wrong with any of their bikes. They tend to have slightly more relaxed angles than the equivalent bikes from other manufacturers - which makes them great on descents, but a bit 'wandery' when climbing. As above, though, the particular model may buck this trend...

If you really can't organise a test ride, see what you can find out about the frame geometry in your size, and get the closest that you can to the one that you've tried and liked.

[tiermat]

Have you thought of one of these?

Marin Bikes UK - 2008

In your price range and fantastic bikes...

[clarion]

Marin make some really lovely bikes, it has to be said...

[Kathy]

*sigh*

I'm sure that Marin bikes are lovely, but they are not available from Wheelies, who are the supplier with whom my employer is running the Bike2Work scheme...

[clarion]

Ah.  A serious disadvantage.

[tiermat]

oops, sorry

[Kathy]

It's OK. It's just that we've had this conversation at least twice already on this thread.

[blackpuddinonnabike]

If you really can't organise a test ride, see what you can find out about the frame geometry in your size, and get the closest that you can to the one that you've tried and liked.

+1

This tends to be my option for buying frames to build up, since you can't really test ride a frame. Start with something you know works for you, and you'll be able to see if other geometries will be more stretched out, scrunched up, racy, relaxed and so on. My commuter was built to match my MTB, but with a little bit racier a set-up - worked a treat.

[bikenerd]

I haven't time to look at the geometry, ATM, but
Giant make bikes in all flavours - dismissing an entire range on the basis of one bike is, frankly, daft.

That's okay, I do daft quite well sometimes!
I made a big mistake with my Giant, bought the wrong bike and regretted it for a year or so before I sold it for 1/2 the price I paid for it.  I should've explained a bit more: I wouldn't dismiss Giants outright, in fact my girlfriend has an FCR which is the perfect bike for her.
However, their hardtails at a decent price, with a decent level of specification (Deore gears, a Rockshox or Marzocchi fork) do seem to be aimed at racing.  The range is even called "XC competition".  Their "all day" riding bikes have moved to full suspension.

I'm not advocating Kathy buy an All Mountain bike but an all day trail riding type of bike, with more relaxed angles than a race bike, 100mm of travel and a bit of "vertical compliance" at the rear end.  Unfortunately quite a few manufacturers don't make hardtails like this anymore.

[PhilO]

However, their hardtails at a decent price, with a decent level of specification (Deore gears, a Rockshox or Marzocchi fork) do seem to be aimed at racing.  The range is even called "XC competition".  Their "all day" riding bikes have moved to full suspension.

***Goes off and googles the Giant range***

Blwdy hell, so they do/have! It's a while since I last looked at the catalogues... Mind you, I suspect it's largely marketing. 71/73 degree head/seat angles fall in what I would regard as the 'general purpose' range. As does 80mm travel...  Call me old skool...

Or is that just old? 

Kathy,

What size Myka did you want to order? With that information, we can look at the geometry and compare it with the alternatives.

For instance, if you were looking at the 17" Myka, the most important dimensions for it and its competitors (IMO) are:

                     Frame sz       Eff TT/mm      Head angle            Seat Angle            Standover
Spec. Myka       17"             567               69.5                       73                          752
Contessa,         L                565               70                          73                          737
G. Arrette,        M                569               70.5                       73.5                       795
K. Lisa,             17"             564                68.3                      71.8                       782
C. Caffeine       S(15")         565               70                          73.5                       764

If I was buying, I'd start with the Effective Top Tube length (done in the above table, which is why the Large Contessa is listed with the Small Caffeine). After that, head angle will govern how the steering feels (steep for sharp and manuevreable - good climber, shallow for stable at speed - good descender). Then seat angle contributes to weight distribution (steep to get the weight forward - good climber, shallow for weight-back - good descender). Finally, I'd always minimise standover height where possible.

In the above example, the Large Scott Contessa looks a good match for the 17" Myka. The Medium Giant Arrette is likely to climb slightly better, while the Kona Lisa will descend better, although both will be harder to put a foot down without interfacing with the top tube...

Does that help?

[Kathy]

Ooh, that helps a lot. I was looking at the 17" Myka Pro. Sadly, the Contessa is also out of stock (begins to be unimpressed with computer system of Cycle Solutions), and I've decided the Kona is ugly (and I've already got a blue bike).

So I'm probably going to go with the Giant Arete 2. Which apparently comes with a frame size of 16" and 18". So I'd want the 16", would I?

[PhilO]

Damn! I've just closed all those windows... Hold on...
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Geometry figures for the Giant are here

The 'medium' is actually the largest size (18") - daft, isn't it? 

Having said that, the 16" is only 13mm shorter (11mm shorter than the Myka), and has a better standover... A 10mm longer stem will compensate for the reach - and there's no indication of what length stem is fitted, anyway. 

So the 18" is the closest match, but there might be advantages in going down a size. Only you can tell if a slightly shorter bike will suit you, and frankly as it's your first MTB you probably wouldn't notice such subtleties, anyway...

[ABlipInContinuity]

Kathy,

Lots of dealers including, I'd imagine, Wheelies will now be out of stock on 2008 bikes and not restocking on them. Is it not worth waiting now for the 2009 bikes to come into stock, perhaps giving you a little more choice?

The only downside of this being, most bikes and components are rumoured to be increasing in price by about 10-15% for 2009.

Thanks
Daniel

[Kathy]

We only had a one-month window to place orders. And that month being August, you are spot on when you say that most of the 2008 bikes are out of stock. And unfortunately, most of the 2009 ladies' bikes won't hit the shelves in time for me to order - those which have are £50 more for an equivalent 2009 bike.

Anyway, I should take possession of a shiney new Giant Arete next week. 

[PhilO]

Anyway, I should take possession of a shiney new Giant Arete next week. 

Excellent!

I trust that we shall see pictures? 

What size did you order in the end?

[Kathy]

Anyway, I should take possession of a shiney new Giant Arete next week. 

Excellent!

I trust that we shall see pictures? 

What size did you order in the end?

er. 17", I think. If it's a problem, I'll swap it.