[LEL17] The wisdom of a late start time?

[Bolt]

It's my LEL debut this year and I'm considering of opting for a start time between 14:00 and 16:00 as I'm okay with night riding and like the thought of less crowded controls. Are there many other riders that favour a late start time?

[Bikeabilityman]

A lot of audaxers can ride through the first night, and then be tired enough to fall asleep straight away on the second (despite all the snoring). I was a late morning start last time, which meant carrying on to the 2nd Yorkshire sleep control as the first was too packed. If I cycle to the start this time, I will probably opt for a later start to avoid the crowds and enjoy the event even more (if that's possible).

[Tomsk]

I prefer an afternoon/evening start because:

i] I don't sleep well before an early morning start.

ii] The first 24 hours is too exciting to stop and sleep.

So somewhere up north, there will be somewhere I can stop [possibly quite early], on the second night, for a decent kip.

[Bikeabilityman]

Ditto to not sleeping well before early starts.

[yanner]

I'm favouring a late start *and* stopping at Spalding for the first night. 

My current plan has as little night riding as possible, maybe 1-2 hours after sundown max, but early starts each day.  I've even got a 6 hours stop on the Thursday night at St Ives which if I'm behind schedule I could ride through for the final 120kms.

It's all about what works for you.  I know if I go into sleep debt on the first night by riding through I'll not be able to catch up with a decent sleep on the second night whereas if I get 4-5 hours a night I'll be fine.

[tippers_kiwi]

I am also up for a later start for the more relaxed approach to getting to the start. Nothing concrete yet but I am thinking if I can get a couple of hours kip somewhere between 3 and 8 on the Monday morning I can then push on and get back into a routine of sleeping at night. Nothing is for sure and until I have a start time I'll not make too many plans.

I am also pretty comfortable riding though 24+ hours and still being ok to 'catch up' on sleep after that so the late start is probably better for me.

[Jacques]

The pbp style of late start and riding through the first night really suits me. A relaxed morning and afternoon before I set off has always worked for me rather than the lie in bed fretting and then waking up at an early time and feeling worn out before I even turn a pedal.

I was always going for the late start time, what concerns me now is if this idea becomes so popular and the late start times become harder to get

I never worry about what will happen at the end so my finish times don't really come into my calculations, much more important for me to start well and happy then let the ride unfold.

[frillipippi]

In my opinion, there's an aspect you sould consider: if you start early you'll be overtaken, if you start late you will overtake. This has consequences on your morale.

My experience so far is:

LEL 2013, I started in the first publicly available group (B), I spent "less than five days" with a lot of cyclists overtaking me: they had started after me and were faster. I'm not a competitive cyclist, but my morale gradually worsened, and I started fearing I couldn't respect the time limit.

PBP 2015, I started in the very last group (Z) and overtook what seemed to me a lot of cyclists, I particularly remember the surprise when I first spotted a T letter, meaning somebody that had started 9 hours before me. My morale rocketed. If you think at it, it's obvious: nobody could overtake me because there was nobody behind me, I had thousands of cyclists before me, so I was simply overtaking the tail of them, but I was galvanized just the same.

Hopefully, in LEL 2017 I'll try to start in the middle just to further expand my experience...

[citoyen]

I'm thinking of opting for an afternoon start simply because it means I can travel up on the Sunday (get the train to Stratford and ride the last 9 miles to Loughton - nearly all of which are uphill, so should be a good warm-up!).

This means I will be able to get a proper night's sleep on Saturday and start the ride fully energised. Usual experience of 600s with 6am starts is being in a sleep-deprived state even before I've turned a pedal.

[Bolt]

Thanks for all the every encouraging responses to my OP, it's nice to know that I won't be on my own setting off later in the day:)

[Chris N]

The slower minimum speed and relaxed attitude to the closing times for the early controls make a late start time very attractive.  I reckon riding to Louth from an afternoon start, 4 shortish days and half days riding on the Friday would work quite well.  I've always started long rides early - LEL '09 at 9am, a DIY 1300 at 8 (I think) and PBP '11 at 5am - but quite fancy an afternoon start.

[Divingrob]

I'm also favoring an late start, early night in Spalding and up and out for first light. That way looking at my excel sheet my sleep times work out quite well.

[Yellow Giant]

I'm thinking of opting for an afternoon start simply because it means I can travel up on the Sunday (get the train to Stratford and ride the last 9 miles to Loughton - nearly all of which are uphill, so should be a good warm-up!).

This means I will be able to get a proper night's sleep on Saturday and start the ride fully energised. Usual experience of 600s with 6am starts is being in a sleep-deprived state even before I've turned a pedal.

How do you get around the need to for the Saturday registration?
Or am I missing something...?

[citoyen]

How do you get around the need to for the Saturday registration?

Er... good question. I didn't even realise that was a requirement.

Fortunately, I live close enough that I can make a trip up on Saturday.

[dasmi]

as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light

THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )

dave

[Flatlander]

I started at the latest possible time last time for the reason Citoyen stated. I still had to get up at 8am, earlier than usual to get the train down to Cheshunt and ride to Loughton but at least thats an hour before normal o'clock rather than Audax o'clock. I was nearly a day quicker than the early start time allows this time but then I would start with a missed nights sleep. I always start PBP at 4pm. I bounced St Ives becasue the queue for food was out of the door so the late start didn't help at earlier controls. Didn't mind that though.

I think I was well ahead of the traffic bulge when I stopped at Brampton on the way back, which was still full of outbound riders.
 
I'm not sure how I would organise a 5 or 6 am start. Couldn't use the train so I'd have to ride down from Cambridge, 46 miles so I'd have to leave home at 3am for 6. It would be like a ride home from a pub with a wrong turn . The earliest I could sensibly make is about 11am.  One year there as a train strike so I had to ride home anyway, maybe I can ECE it to a 1500. Mind you any time would work if it had to.

[alwyn]

It looks like Spalding will be very much the new Market Rasen, the canny choice for the late starter who likes an early night.

Start at 4, stop here, leave again at 6am and still be in time with 5 hours' kip.

Louth is a relatively small control but Spalding is huge. I highly recommend you aim for Spalding if you want a higher chance of a quiet control.

[mattc]

as a full value rider ,a late start should mean finishing in day light

yes, and that's exactly what worked out for me in 2009. 

THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )

May I ask why you think controls will have no food for you?

[Redlight]

May I ask why you think controls will have no food for you?

While we can safely assume that the catering at LEL will be better than that on PBP, in 2015 the control at Carhaix had run out of food by Tuesday evening when there were still many riders on their way back from Brest and some still on their way out.

[alfapete]

THE DOWN SIDE could be controls with no food and eager to close the doors( perfectly understandable )

The controllers have had discussions about ensuring that the tail end charlie's have a good and full experience. Whilst we may begin to scale down the control we will ensure that the full menu is still available to all right up to closing time. We're aware that that wasn't always the experience in 2013.

[mattc]

May I ask why you think controls will have no food for you?

While we can safely assume that the catering at LEL will be better than that on PBP, in 2015 the control at Carhaix had run out of food by Tuesday evening when there were still many riders on their way back from Brest and some still on their way out.

Yes, LEL feeding has been much more reliable. At PBP, perhaps the only downside of their "federal" model is that the controls don't worry about the big picture. The food is almost operated as a business venture at some controls.

However, at the last LEL every rider got fed. Fact.

I was riding in '09 and didn't have any problems, despite starting late and finishing in over 116 hours!  Although I had a bit of a  moan when the massage service packed up 6 hours before I got to one control ...

Come to think of it, werent you on a similar schedule that year Rob? Did you have any problems?

[graunch]

The slower minimum speed and relaxed attitude to the closing times for the early controls make a late start time very attractive.

I've never done LEL, but am interested in these relaxed attitudes..  I think that I am sort of intending to try and sleep nights.  Lesson from PBP was "less faffing, more sleeping" I think

[jsabine]

However, at the last LEL every rider got fed. Fact.

We've had this discussion before, Matt.

While I don't know of anyone who went entirely unfed, at several controls I and others found there was no hot food, and an extremely limited selection of cold.

You may regard it as 'fact' that every rider got fed, but I believe alwyn regards the situation last time (for some, late-running riders) as having been less than satisfactory. That's why he has made plans to change things this time.

[alwyn]

jsabine is right; at some controls the riders at the back got dregs. Fact.

We really don't want that to happen again.

Most of our catering is contracted out now, and they all have our agreement to keep ordering food without needing to get my permission. At other controls they are under v. strict instructions to keep it basic to keep it flowing to the end.

[mattc]

jsabine is right; at some controls the riders at the back got dregs. Fact.

We really don't want that to happen again.

Most of our catering is contracted out now, and they all have our agreement to keep ordering food without needing to get my permission. At other controls they are under v. strict instructions to keep it basic to keep it flowing to the end.

... which is all good stuff. 


But that is different to riders getting "no food". Now maybe I'm speaking a different version of English, or I read different sports nutrition books to some folks here, but the difference between
"no food" and
"an extremely limited selection of cold" food
is a pretty massive difference. One scenario might be ride-ending - the other might merely be a little annoying. Any controller responsible for riders getting "no food" would be pretty bloody unhappy about that situation, and I don't know anyone that has allowed it to come about.

(And that comes from my experience riding many multi-day events - occasionally being faced with very uninspiring food.)

I don't know why riders are afraid they might reach controls that have "No food", given that it is EXTREMELY rare on ANY audax, and clearly did not happen in 2013 (we see from Dasmi's post that some riders do have this fear). Unless some have spread this rumour about past events.