Author Topic: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis  (Read 10754 times)

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #25 on: 17 January, 2017, 08:52:29 pm »
I'm all for exemplary sentencing. There's a need to bring home the deadly effects of distractions when driving.

It seems to make the news, with regular reports of sentences for texting, fiddling with radios etc. I do worry that a generation has grown up that sees distraction as a right, and comes up with excuses to counter any censure. But it may well be that I get an exaggerated view of the risks from the news reports, and from threads such as this.

However, I know that there's little I can do to lower the risks of these kinds of collisions, the drivers are completely at fault. I'm just left with the feeling that it's just going to get worse, as this generation gets older, and their multi-tasking exceeds their capacities.


ian

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #26 on: 17 January, 2017, 08:55:13 pm »
The next time I see the words 'momentary lapse' I'm going to hunt down the person responsible and have a momentary lapse of my own.

Anyway, she was so upset about killing someone that she continued to drive. Admittedly with enough drugs and booze in her system that she probably didn't notice she was driving.

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #27 on: 17 January, 2017, 09:36:14 pm »
Distraction is now turning round to reprimand people?

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #28 on: 18 January, 2017, 09:46:06 am »
The next time I see the words 'momentary lapse' I'm going to hunt down the person responsible and have a momentary lapse of my own.

Anyway, she was so upset about killing someone that she continued to drive. Admittedly with enough drugs and booze in her system that she probably didn't notice she was driving.

I just wonder what the effect of exemplary sentences is? Does it make the roads safer? Or does it make people see cycling as too dangerous?

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #29 on: 18 January, 2017, 11:29:13 am »
Pretty sure that criminological research indicates that what affects people's behaviour is not the severity of punishment, but rather the chance of being caught.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #30 on: 18 January, 2017, 12:31:15 pm »
Pretty sure that criminological research indicates that what affects people's behaviour is not the severity of punishment, but rather the chance of being caught.

Suspect you're right and the reduction in road policing is making cycling more dangerous.

Public/press perception that road crime isn't 'real crime' doesn't help.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #31 on: 18 January, 2017, 02:17:11 pm »
Pretty sure that criminological research indicates that what affects people's behaviour is not the severity of punishment, but rather the chance of being caught.
yes, I've seen references to that recently too.

But it cant ALL be about the detection rates; if the penalty is just a fine of £10-30, then a lot of people will get killed during "momentary lapses"!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #32 on: 27 January, 2017, 07:20:38 pm »
I've just read a news item from the Chicago. A drunk driver twice the limit, travelling at 60 in a 30 limit, who killed a cyclist, and who pleaded guilty, was jailed. For 10 DAYS. Plus 4 years probation and a $25,000 dollar fine.  :-\
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #33 on: 27 January, 2017, 08:05:13 pm »
Pretty sure that criminological research indicates that what affects people's behaviour is not the severity of punishment, but rather the chance of being caught.
yes, I've seen references to that recently too.

But it cant ALL be about the detection rates; if the penalty is just a fine of £10-30, then a lot of people will get killed during "momentary lapses"!

A driving ban is a decent deterrent, but guilty drivers should not have the 'hardship' get-out...
https://t.co/psUBC2MnAq
Points on the licence should really mean a threat of a driving ban, with jail for non-compliance.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #34 on: 28 January, 2017, 11:50:31 am »
I've just read a news item from the Chicago. A drunk driver twice the limit, travelling at 60 in a 30 limit, who killed a cyclist, and who pleaded guilty, was jailed. For 10 DAYS. Plus 4 years probation and a $25,000 dollar fine.  :-\

Whafuck?  Illinois is plastered with huge signs warning motons that if they kill a road construction worker they'll get fined bigly AND fourteen years :o
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #35 on: 20 February, 2017, 09:23:39 am »
I've just read a news item from the Chicago. A drunk driver twice the limit, travelling at 60 in a 30 limit, who killed a cyclist, and who pleaded guilty, was jailed. For 10 DAYS. Plus 4 years probation and a $25,000 dollar fine.  :-\

Whafuck?  Illinois is plastered with huge signs warning motons that if they kill a road construction worker they'll get fined bigly AND fourteen years :o

This!

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #36 on: 20 February, 2017, 12:19:30 pm »
A driving ban is a decent deterrent, but guilty drivers should not have the 'hardship' get-out...
https://t.co/psUBC2MnAq
Points on the licence should really mean a threat of a driving ban, with jail for non-compliance.

I've been spending a bit of time in the local magistrates' court recently some of the reasons people give when pleading "exceptional hardship" are quite gob-smacking.  My favourite was the speeder who was already over the 12 points and due 3 more - his argument for keeping his licence was that his gym was on the other side of London and it would take too long to get there by public transport.

Happy to report though that none of the pleas that I have heard so far have been upheld.  :thumbsup:
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #37 on: 20 February, 2017, 03:48:33 pm »
I've just read a news item from the Chicago. A drunk driver twice the limit, travelling at 60 in a 30 limit, who killed a cyclist, and who pleaded guilty, was jailed. For 10 DAYS. Plus 4 years probation and a $25,000 dollar fine.  :-\

Whafuck?  Illinois is plastered with huge signs warning motons that if they kill a road construction worker they'll get fined bigly AND fourteen years :o

The report was on the WGN-TV Chicago website, so I assume it was true.

I just did a search but couldn't find it. I did however find this

http://wgntv.com/2017/01/02/new-law-gives-bike-riders-more-respect/

But apart from the headline, some of the new laws reported further down made me go  :o

Possession of artificial bath salts resulting in a 5 year prison sentence and $150,000 fine!!
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #38 on: 20 February, 2017, 04:02:36 pm »

Possession of artificial bath salts resulting in a 5 year prison sentence and $150,000 fine!!

Synthetic cathinones, aka man made khat. Similar to our recents laws regarding the former legal highs such as 'spice' aka synthetic cannabinoids

Steph

  • Fast. Fast and bulbous. But fluffy.
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #39 on: 25 February, 2017, 09:22:06 pm »
And see the laws coming out on the Trump thread, allowing drivers to run over "protesters" or, indeed, anyone "in the way" on the road, and get away with it by claiming "Oopsies!"
Mae angen arnaf i byw, a fe fydda'i

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #40 on: 23 March, 2017, 06:35:46 pm »
You would think that if you drove your delivery van up onto the pavement to park it and in the process ran over and killed a four year old child who you knew was in the immediate vicinity you would be guilty of at least causing death by careless driving or at least guilty of something.

Apparently not  >:(

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/delivery-driver-who-mounted-pavement-12782437

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-39356514
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
― Douglas Adams

ian

Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #41 on: 23 March, 2017, 08:27:31 pm »
It's an odd world where people write to newspapers about the occasional bicycle on a pavement and demand something must be done, but it's a no-faulter when someone drives a loaded truck along a pavement and kills someone in the process.

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #42 on: 27 March, 2017, 11:28:32 pm »
You would think that if you drove your delivery van up onto the pavement to park it and in the process ran over and killed a four year old child who you knew was in the immediate vicinity you would be guilty of at least causing death by careless driving or at least guilty of something.

Apparently not  >:(

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/delivery-driver-who-mounted-pavement-12782437

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-39356514

"However, he said unless Williams had “X-ray vision”, he could not have seen Esme through parked cars."#

I just despair that it is OK to drive a vehicle onto a pavement, where he admits he couldn't see if it was empty or not, you should expect people to be on the pavement, it should not come as a surprise.

In my view parking on the pavement should be banned everywhere, the entire practice is based on the belief of drivers that endangering pedestrians is less important than inconveniencing other drivers by being a possible traffic obstruction.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Gattopardo

  • Lord of the sith
  • Overseaing the building of the death star
Re: Sentencing lethal drivers was Re: Richard Ellis
« Reply #43 on: 28 March, 2017, 12:13:10 am »
Surprised that we are not blaming the parent for not being in control of child.