Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: andrewc on 06 April, 2020, 11:51:04 pm
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My sister spent several hundred pounds on tickets for "Mamma Mia" , promoted by Ambassador Theatre Group (ATG). Obviously all performances are postponed.
ATG are offering rescheduled performances or credit vouchers https://www.atgtickets.com/coronavirus-info/ She'd prefer a cash refund. Is there a way to do this via her credit card company ?
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I think there probably is. Credit cards, as opposed to debit crds, come with some sort of liability of the card company taking on the debt.
Usual disclaimer: IANAL.
Jan and I should have been at the Royal Opera House on 1st April to see Swan lake - tickets bought for us by our Melbourne daughter. Several options were offered, but rather than go for a refund, we suggested that we donate the ticket price to the ROH. We would have had to spend the entire performance in a chair without arms in any case. Too old for that sort of thing: I need to loll.
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I expect he answer is in the T&C which we all tick as having read but no one does. Still worth reading as there's a possibility that they're trying it on and those T&C allow for a refund, in which case pointing that out to them ought to be enough, with the threat of getting the CC involved as a back up. OTOH if they're acting within the agreed T&C, then they are fulfilling the contract and I can't see a CC company refunding on the basis that you no longer like the contract agreed. I'm not a lawyer, though there was probably one involved in writing the T&C.
EDIT - Some guidance here
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/04/coronavirus-outbreak-cancelled-or-postponed-events-can-i-get-my-money-back/
This bit's interesting, if the tickets were purchased direct
These firms are required by the industry’s self-regulatory body, the Society of Ticket Agents and Retailers (STAR), to refund the ticket’s face value price when an event is cancelled.
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I've got two different sets of theatre tickets booked (one through ATG and one through LondonTheatre).
Personally I'm happy to wait, I don't need a refund right now, and I can see why agents like ATG are trying to cling on to the money (they'd be completely done as a company if everyone requested a refund).
One of the shows (the one through ATG) was only on for a week at that specific theatre so if it doesn't come back, or comes back at a time that isn't suitable then their emails say I can request a refund.
If you want a refund, for whatever reason, then push for it.
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This has reminded me to get in touch with Sadlers Wells. We had tickets for Pina Bausch, which is unlikely to be rescheduled 🙁
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This has reminded me to get in touch with Sadlers Wells. We had tickets for Pina Bausch, which is unlikely to be rescheduled 🙁
They got in touch with my wife about her season ticket with an offer to refund, though with the caveat that they'd love it if she didn't ask and continued to pay). Anyway, on the very dubious grounds that her husband's life would be incomplete without exposure to avant-garde dance, she's letting them keep the money.
(To be honest, I'm only the stand-in when she can't find someone else to accompany her.)
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This is such a bloody middle-class thread. Swan Lake? Sadlers Wells? No-one is complaining that they can't go and see Cradle of Filth or The Butthole Surfers this summer.
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My daughter was in some school dance competition which has been postponed. They haven't been able to practise for weeks, and she leaves that school this summer, so got knows whether it will ever happen. I've accepted the tickets for the postponed event - I doubt it will happen, but I'm cool with that.
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This is such a bloody middle-class thread. Swan Lake? Sadlers Wells? No-one is complaining that they can't go and see Cradle of Filth or The Butthole Surfers this summer.
Roger, whoever's filthy buttholes you surf in Swindon's car parks & lay byes it's none of our business. We are not here to judge you.....
OMG. Autocarrot told me I'd spelt buttholes wrong :D
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This is such a bloody middle-class thread. Swan Lake? Sadlers Wells? No-one is complaining that they can't go and see Cradle of Filth or The Butthole Surfers this summer.
I'm upset that Download Festival has been cancelled, that good enough? :-D Was looking forward to some of the heavier end of the line up as well, especially Gojira! :'(
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This is such a bloody middle-class thread. Swan Lake? Sadlers Wells? No-one is complaining that they can't go and see Cradle of Filth or The Butthole Surfers this summer.
One of our dogs gives an exhibition of that every day.
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I had a BA flight to Bologna end of Feb. They offered a rebook within a month, which I lolled at, but accepted, just to buy time for the FCO to catch up with reality. By mid March BA had cancelled the flights and offered a full refund.
Curiously, the refund link wouldnt work, despite many attempts over several weeks, and their refund phone line was a recorded message essentially telling you to fuck off.
By end of march the refund button worked.But it sent me straight to a future travel voucher.
Womad have just cancelled, offering refund or 2021 tickets.
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Ah, that's not unexpected on Womad.
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I've gone for the refund. I can always buy a ticket next year if circumstances permit.
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This is such a bloody middle-class thread. Swan Lake? Sadlers Wells? No-one is complaining that they can't go and see Cradle of Filth or The Butthole Surfers this summer.
I'm just relieved that I've already seen Cradle of Filth live! ;D (It was many moons ago...)
Also quite glad that I procrastinated for so long over buying tickets to several gigs this summer that I didn't get round to booking any of them.
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This is such a bloody middle-class thread. Swan Lake? Sadlers Wells? No-one is complaining that they can't go and see Cradle of Filth or The Butthole Surfers this summer.
Is Go Ape and less middle-class? We had tickets for the first weekend of Lockdown, and were told we could book for a different date when they were forced to close. The closure decision was made late the day before our visit & credit to them they emailed and followed up with a phone call to check we had received the message.
Looking at the T&C's now they are saying no refunds for CV19 closure only rebook, but these have clearly been changed since I booked. Doesn't really matter as we still want to Go Ape, and it was for a birthday celebration so hopefully when we rebook we will be able to go for a pub meal afterwards as well.
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ATG have said they are rescheduling the tour for April 2022. By that time I'd expect both them & the local theatre to have gone bust. Please phone us to discuss your options. That's going to be a busy number.
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What are the overheads of a closed theatre? I'd imagine most own their buildings so no rent, there'll be minimal power while shut, staff furloughed, so that business rates and a little maintenance. I guess many have outstanding loans so depends on the attitude of the bank.
(This is highly likely to be wrong as wrong ^^^ so please inform if you actually know about these things)
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Rent/mortgage, rates, insurance, loans, bear fences.
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What are the overheads of a closed theatre? I'd imagine most own their buildings so no rent, there'll be minimal power while shut, staff furloughed, so that business rates and a little maintenance. I guess many have outstanding loans so depends on the attitude of the bank.
Here's an example:-
https://www.thestage.co.uk/news/2020/coronavirus-old-vic-will-need-critical-fundraising-warns-matthew-warchus/
His plans for the theatre have been unveiled in a statement, in which he reveals two thirds of the Old Vic’s staff have been furloughed, with the remainder taking a 20% cut to their pay for the next six months.
So 1/3 of the staff are still there on 80% of their pay. Probably because they earn way more than the £2.5k/month cap that furlough covers and the theatre will need quite a few people working up until they reopen to put the next shows on (and furloughed employees legally cannot do any work for the company whilst on furlough). They can't furlough everyone as they can't just pull something together at short notice (and get people to pay to watch it) when lockdown is eventually eased, the new shows need to be created, planned, etc.
I also wouldn't be surprised if theatres that did own their own buildings sold up in return for a large dose of cash many years ago. It is the true capitalist way to push everything to opex rather than capex.
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Meanwhile I'm slightly confused by what KLM are up to. We were flying to AMS on the 1st May.
On 1st April they emailed saying the flight schedule had changed & we were booked on another flight.
On 2nd April they email saying our flights had been cancelled. Fine I thought, I'll investigate the refund/voucher situation at my leisure.
19th April I got an email from that Amadeus travel booking system thing saying my flights were confirmed. (The same ones that were cancelled).
20th April I got yet another email from Amadeus which looks the same as the one that came a day earlier.
I'm confused how my cancelled flights have suddenly become uncancelled, but having peered at KLM's voucher site it says if they cancel the flight you can get a refund if you haven't used the travel voucher in 12 months, whereas if you cancel, you can't.
Gits.
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This is such a bloody middle-class thread. Swan Lake? Sadlers Wells? No-one is complaining that they can't go and see Cradle of Filth or The Butthole Surfers this summer.
We received our ticket price refund for Project Dante at the ROH today less £3 which I assume was a booking fee.
Now should I cancel the room booking at my club too? :P
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I realised the other day that I ought to cancel my train season ticket as this obviously isn't going to be a couple week shutdown after all. Not using the train at the moment I'd half forgotten about the ticket.
I was very pleased to find that Southern, of all people, are backdating season ticket refunds to March 17th rather than going off of when you apply.
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No. 1 Son also had BA flights for a planned trip to Oz cancelled.
He was also bounced endlessly between the web site and the customer services line - He refused to accept a voucher on line and thus kept trying customer services several times a day for the past few weeks. Suddenly and magically answered on the phone line today. Refund now in the bank.
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Howard Winchester hotel :thumbsup:
Mrs A. had a booking later this year for a concert that was rescheduled for next year.
She'd booked the hotel but it was a non-refundable booking and they would take the money whether or not she showed up.
They were not able to offer a room that far ahead or something. I suggested she contact them rather than write off £100 and they kindly agreed to cancel the booking gratis.
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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/apr/25/coronavirus-refunds-fans-ticket-policies
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I was planning on taking part in the 2020 Semaine Federale in Valognes (France). The event has
been cancelled, and the organisers are in the process of orgainsing refunds. I have already paid
half of the ferry fee (£247), but would lose it all if I cancelled my sailing slot. If I pay the other
half of the fee and the crossing doesn't take place (1 Aug) Brittany Ferries will offer vouchers
instead. I am going to hold out for a refund; as far as I know, they have to cough up within 14 days.
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My Etihad flights to/ from Oz later this month have unsurprisingly been cancelled. Seeing as I would have been locked in a quarantine hotel in a different city to my destination for the entire time I'd be on Aussie soil and would have been unable to tick off any of several reasons for the trip, I wasn't too keen on making the journey anyway.
I have the choice of:
1) A one year voucher to any Etihad destination within the next year. Not particularly enticing, given likely travel/ quarantine restrictions through 2021.
2) Cash repayment of 90% of the ticket value (10% handling fee by the travel agent) within three weeks.
3) Full refund in about six months.
I'm not hurting for cash so I'm leaning towards option 3. Any sensible reasons to select any of the others?
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My Etihad flights to/ from Oz later this month have unsurprisingly been cancelled. Seeing as I would have been locked in a quarantine hotel in a different city to my destination for the entire time I'd be on Aussie soil and would have been unable to tick off any of several reasons for the trip, I wasn't too keen on making the journey anyway.
I have the choice of:
1) A one year voucher to any Etihad destination within the next year. Not particularly enticing, given likely travel/ quarantine restrictions through 2021.
2) Cash repayment of 90% of the ticket value (10% handling fee by the travel agent) within three weeks.
3) Full refund in about six months.
I'm not hurting for cash so I'm leaning towards option 3. Any sensible reasons to select any of the others?
Option 3 is the sensible one.
FWIW the legal angle is that in the event of a cancellation, the airline has to reimburse you in cash, in full, within 7 days notice of the cancellation.
Not sure why you are having to wait six months (by which time the airline may not exist).
Were it me, I'd be fighting for a refund sooner rather than later.
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Indeed, the longer you hold on (or accept 'vouchers') the more likely you are to receive nothing.
I've chosen to accept vouchers and delayed repayments for places I care about (I've even bought gift cards redeemable in the future to keep certain local shops/restaurants going) but airlines can get to fuck.
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Indeed, the longer you hold on (or accept 'vouchers') the more likely you are to receive nothing.
That's why I've sought a refund from Eurostar for a package weekend away. They've only been offering "eVouchers", but their own T&Cs say refund if they're unable to provide the package as booked. This is consistent with the Package Travel Regulations, as far as I know. Given neither the outbound or inbound train was running and our hotel is closed until at least the end of May, I can't see how they've anywhere to go (like us). Just waiting for their response now.
Credit where it's due, GWR and Premier Inn have been great with sorting refunds. Premier Inn refunded immediately for a non-flexible booking. GWR refunded after taking a few weeks to process the request.
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It is prisoners dilemma.
If everyone pushed for the immediate cash refund then the airline would most likely go bankrupt and you might get half your money back.
From a best average result people should wait the 6 months.
For a best individual result, persuade everyone else to wait 6 months and then go for the immediate cash refund yourself.
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I suspect the travel agent might be holding the cash, while blaming the airline. Once I find the legislation mentioning the seven day limit, I'll probably push for that.
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I suspect the travel agent might be holding the cash, while blaming the airline. Once I find the legislation mentioning the seven day limit, I'll probably push for that.
.... and the whole 100% - the travel agent's service hasn't been delivered either.
Rob
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I got mine back in full no quibbles (obviously they offered vouchers). As said, it's bad for the airline, but I don't know how many of them will exist after this, other than it will be fewer than before, and I won't be at the front of the creditor queue. I'd rather have my £3000 than a bank collecting on what it can.
If a travel agent is taking a commission, it should be seperate from the face value of the tickets (which is what you are entitled to).
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I feel fairly happy with my refund situation. This was a 3 week self-booked Interrail trip across Western & Central Europe, and we should have been leaving today.
I've had full refunds for most of the hotels - Travelbag were stellar performers, Agoda came good in the end, but were really hard work, the hotel I booked direct refinded me in full - Booking.com & Hotels.com don't want to know. Lesson learned : use one single booking engine, and swallow up the extra cost of a refundable / cancel-able room.
Stena Ferries couldn't have been more helpful - we were using a Dutch Flyer for our first leg, and they'll rebook me whenever I like, it's just that their booking engine isn't open for next June.
The ATOC site we bought our Interrail passes from were excellent - they will re-issue our passes for any date in the next 18 months at no extra charge.
Interrail.eu gave us a full refund for the reservations we had made, although we did have to return the reservation slips back to NL by post, and communication were via a mixture of Twitter & eMail which wasn't satisfactory. I'll probably book the reservations through Bahn.de next year where possible.
The Austrian Railways people were starting to be shitty early on, but when they cancelled nearly all of their sleeper services and opened up a help line that was genuinely helpful (ie they allowed non-German speakers to talk to them) they were very very helpful, with my (expensive) sleeper refund back in my account within 15 minutes of talking to the man in Salzberg.
The jury is still out on Eurostar - we've got a 'pass reservation ticket' which we can't try to get a refund on, until the train we are booked on doesn't run, so we'll see.
So the travel insurance might only need to be there for two hotels (5 nights in 'good' hotels) and possibly Eurostar.
It's been 'interesting' trying to unravel all the planning - the other lesson learned has been to keep meticulous records for next year's journey!
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I suspect the travel agent might be holding the cash, while blaming the airline. Once I find the legislation mentioning the seven day limit, I'll probably push for that.
.... and the whole 100% - the travel agent's service hasn't been delivered either.
Rob
I’ve not found the legislation for a seven day repayment limit. Where would I find such a thing to quote at the travel agent?
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AirBnB emailed yesterday, cancelling our booking and processing a full refund, with a 10% voucher for future bookings. (That must be used in a month, and must be used on a booking of the same or more than the cancelled one)
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I suspect the travel agent might be holding the cash, while blaming the airline. Once I find the legislation mentioning the seven day limit, I'll probably push for that.
.... and the whole 100% - the travel agent's service hasn't been delivered either.
Rob
I’ve not found the legislation for a seven day repayment limit. Where would I find such a thing to quote at the travel agent?
Have a look through this, LWaB.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/02/coronavirus-travel-help-and-your-rights/#airlinecancels
I've found something in there which refers to cancelled package holidays being refunded within 2 weeks of the cancellation, but nothing specifically referring flight only.
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That's my understanding, too. Greater protection for holiday packages, followed by 'linked arrangements' including refunds in 14 days for packages. See the section 'What do I do if I’ve booked a package holiday and my travel company makes a significant change to my booking?' here: https://www.abta.com/tips-and-advice/is-my-holiday-protected/new-package-travel-regulations (https://www.abta.com/tips-and-advice/is-my-holiday-protected/new-package-travel-regulations)
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If you've just booked flights you haven't booked a package holiday and it's very unlikely to be covered by ATOL.
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I figured that ATOL was meaningless for me. Cancelled flights from a EU airport by a non-EU airline must have a full refund option under EU legislation but not necessarily cancelled flights to EU airports by a non-EU airline. Good fun!
https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Resolving-travel-problems/Delays-cancellations/Your-rights/Your-rights-when-you-fly/ leads to
“ Receive a refund
You can get your money back for all parts of the ticket you haven’t used. For instance, if you have booked a return flight and the outbound leg is cancelled, you can get the full cost of the return ticket back from your airline.”
This suggests a full refund is mandatory if I ask for it but I can’t find anything about the maximum time they can take to carry out the refund.
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The organisation of the Semaine Federale Cycle Festival has sent out emails to all participants
who've paid for this year's event advising them of refunds. They will be processed over the next
couple of months.
I must admit, they're pretty good at this*. In 2015 when I tore my achilles tendon 6 weeks before
the event, I asked for a refund and was given one. They always refund tickets you've purchased
throughout the week (for spending during the event) that you haven't used.
*That was in stark contrast to the response I received from Eurotunnel.
**Pity I forgot about holiday insurance :hand:
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The travel agent will take 10% of the ticket value as a handling charge for retrieving the refund. This is a new charge brought in purely as a result of the virus situation. I believe this charge is unreasonable but don’t actually know if the contract between me and the travel agent allowed them to introduce additional charges willy nilly. Their website suggests that they can.
“ Refunds: Some airlines are offering a refund. You can still choose a credit note if you prefer. Where you don't wish to accept a credit note and the airline is allowing refunds, you may ask us to request a refund from the airline on your behalf.
We will pass on the refund to you within 14 days of us having received it from the airline, but please note that we have no control over how long the airline takes to process your refund request.
Some airlines have now introduced a manual process for requesting refunds instead of their usual process. This requires us to complete an application form to request your refund, which significantly adds to the time and cost of requesting a refund on your behalf. We have increased the size of our refunds team to complete these application forms, which we typically lodge with the airline within 7 days of your refund request. However, some airlines are anticipating taking 4 to 6 months to process your refund following receipt of the application form. This timeframe is not something which we control..
As we incur a cost in processing refunds on behalf of our customers, our terms and conditions allow us to charge an administration fee to cover these costs. Therefore, once we receive your refund from the airline, we will forward this on to you less our administration fee for processing the refund. This administration fee will be 10% of the per ticket value, subject to a maximum amount of £75 per ticket. We know that waiting for a refund is frustrating and we really sympathize. Therefore, in the event that the airline takes longer than 4 months to process your refund request, we will waive our administration fee as a gesture of goodwill.”
The airline is obligated to issue a refund if requested but will not refund the ticket value directly to me, only to the travel agent. They did give me the airline website for agents. On there, it says
“ Refunds
Some customers may be entitled to a refund if their ticket and EMD originated in the USA, UK, Switzerland, or European Union, and their flight has been cancelled by Etihad Airways.
Simply submit your refund request via “Refunds Applications” through the BSP link. ARC agents will need to send an email to ARCRefunds@etihad.ae. Please note refunds can take up to 4 weeks to process. Don’t forget, you can also change the date of your customer’s flight for free or offer Etihad Credit for future travel.”
That doesn’t sound like much work to get 10% of the refund value.
According to the peanut gallery, what should be my next step?
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Ironman Denmark is offering postponement to next year or a transfer to Ironman Kazakhstan.
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GWR have just sent me a PayPal refund for the train tickets that I bought to get back from York after the Easter Arrow. I applied for the refund on 6th April and had to send them a photo of chopped up tickets. I think that that is reasonable service given the current situation.
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GWR have been good in my experience as well. If you've not collected tickets or had them posted, they'll refund on the basis of simple claim.
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I suppose I could have posted this in the coronabonus thread. Anyhow, three weeks ago I received an email from the Semaine Federale (SF) organisation stating that this year's event had been cancelled and all intending participants who had paid would receive a refund. The cash arrived last week.
I now had to set about obtaining a refund for the ferry deposit of £247 paid to Brittany Ferries. Previous emails to them quoting the Foreign Office advice relating to only essential travel abroad were rebutted by reference to their terms and conditions.
My next move was to send another email to Brittany Ferries (Mon 18 May) with the cancellation email form the SF attached, asking that they should look at my case sympathetically and I'd really like a refund as I had no intention of travelling to France next year (just in case they offered me vouchers).
Imagine my surprise when I checked my credit card account to find a refund from Brittany Ferries (apparently, they refunded the money on 21 May, three days after my last email them).
[Edit: After reading Fuafan's post; I did also ask the credit card company to look into the matter;
quoting the Foreign Office's advice about only essential travel abraod being allowed. This may or
may not have had an influence in the outcome].
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Eurostar are only offering vouchers. I emailed to ask for a refund, but they took a week to reply, and just referred to vouchers again.
So I reported a dispute with Paypal. They sent a full refund the next day.
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I got my Eurostar *package* refunded at first request (I ignored their voucher scheme and emailed them). I think pointing out the none of the booked trains were running and the hotel was closed didn't give them anywhere to go. Took about three weeks to get a reply and they quote up to 21 days for the refund to be paid, which is fine in the circumstances.
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I got my Eurostar *package* refunded at first request (I ignored their voucher scheme and emailed them). I think pointing out the none of the booked trains were running and the hotel was closed didn't give them anywhere to go. Took about three weeks to get a reply and they quote up to 21 days for the refund to be paid, which is fine in the circumstances.
I accepted the offer of Eurostar vouchers for our reservations. The voucher is valid for 12 months and the journey can be booked for upto 6 months beyond the end date of the voucher, giving an 18 month window.
As we fully intend to go away in June 21 I thought this was a reasonably pragmatic solution to my specific situation.
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I have just claimed a refund for advanced rail tickets purchased from Greater Angrier. I'm travelling to Nottingham on Monday, and back on Saturday, for a summer school, but the ASLEF people are going to be on strike on the Saturday.
It was a fairly lengthy and convoluted phone call, but it seems that I am going to receive a full refund once I post them to a PO box in Edinburgh (not in East Anglia last time I looked). I had expected hassle of a totally unreasonable type in that they are advance tickets, therefore separate journeys. I expected them to say that my train isn't cancelled on Monday so I just have to suck it up, and they would deduct a £10 fee for the cancellation on Saturday. But apparently not.