Author Topic: Vegan alternatives to butter  (Read 8902 times)

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #25 on: 09 February, 2016, 08:44:25 pm »
SO likes Pure margarine of the olive variety. Sold in most Sainsbury's. 
Tried that and the sunflower variety and not keen.  It's ok on toast as long as I don't sniff it too much.
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Vegan cheese is notoriously horrid although it can sometimes be OK as a minor ingredient.
Looks like I'll be giving that a miss then!
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The Alpro soya single cream is OK but there's a very slight vegetable aftertaste.  She likes Rude Health "milk" best although the Alpro original almond milk is OK and so is the Koko coconut stuff.  The unsweetened Alpro almond milk is rank - it's like drinking milk of magnesia, or kaolin and morphine mixture  :sick:
I like hazelnut milk, particularly nice in coffee, a bit odd on cereal.  Best all-rounder I've so far found is provitamil oat milk which I'm perfectly happy with in tea, really enjoy in coffee and find ok on cereal.

Wasn't keen on the unsweetened almond milk either and found the coconut milk rather thin.

Up the hills and round the bends

Ben T

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #26 on: 09 February, 2016, 08:46:55 pm »

.... and then I started thinking about how many animals must die because I choose to eat meat,
Unfortunately, a lot of animals die because *people* eat meat, but proportionally very few die because of *you* eating meat. There is sadly a fundamental pointlessness in the act of boycott, even though I can understand why it feels better.

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #27 on: 09 February, 2016, 08:55:04 pm »

.... and then I started thinking about how many animals must die because I choose to eat meat,
Unfortunately, a lot of animals die because *people* eat meat, but proportionally very few die because of *you* eating meat. There is sadly a fundamental pointlessness in the act of boycott, even though I can understand why it feels better.

To quote Gandhi "Be the change you want to see in the world".

Yes, it *might* be pointless and futile if you do take a stand, but it *definitely* will be pointless and futile if nobody takes a stand. 

It might just be that I'm more attuned to it now, but many more people are talking about plant-based diets and meat reduction as a way of reducing their environmental footprint.  That has only come about because of the years of discussion that have come before.  In fact hearing more people talk about these issues is probably a large reason as to why I am where I am right now.

Change can happen, just have to accept it's not going to be fast and that some change is better than none at all.
Up the hills and round the bends

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #28 on: 09 February, 2016, 09:51:56 pm »
I'm actually now a vegan but *not* a vegetarian. i.e. I don't eat animal products, but I do eat meat.

You could eat dripping with your bread then...

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #29 on: 09 February, 2016, 10:00:48 pm »
I'm actually now a vegan but *not* a vegetarian. i.e. I don't eat animal products, but I do eat meat.
I think you might have misunderstood something.

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Ben T

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #30 on: 09 February, 2016, 11:25:30 pm »
To quote Gandhi "Be the change you want to see in the world".

Yes, it *might* be pointless and futile if you do take a stand, but it *definitely* will be pointless and futile if nobody takes a stand. 

It might just be that I'm more attuned to it now, but many more people are talking about plant-based diets and meat reduction as a way of reducing their environmental footprint.  That has only come about because of the years of discussion that have come before.  In fact hearing more people talk about these issues is probably a large reason as to why I am where I am right now.

Change can happen, just have to accept it's not going to be fast and that some change is better than none at all.

Hmm. If you feel that way good for you - genuinely. The way I see it however is that there will always be a certain percentage of vegetarians within society. It is apparently about 3.2% with about 0.5% of those being vegans.
That 3.2% is the mean, and might vary over time and from country to country. It might go down to 3.0%, it might go up to 3.4%.
It would be many, many standard deviations off the mean for it to even go as high as 10%. For it to go to 20% would be an absolute statistical freak.
Now think how likely it would be to get it to 100% and keep it there.

More interesting and concerning for me is the potential (but unproven) carcinogenic effects of dairy milk and processed meats. I don't think there's any evidence for it but I think it's one of those things that it's quite hard to get evidence for. I have however read of reasons why cow's milk might be carcinogenic (nasty chemical plasticisers/phthalates in the tubes that transport the milk, and a lot of hormones in milk especially if cows are milked while pregnant which they apparently sometimes are).
Cutting out on dairy totally is a bit drastic but I've decided I think it's wise to moderate it. Hence I only use almond milk in porridge, try to mostly use cashew cream instead of ice cream, limit myself to 2 eggs a week, stick to the government recommended limit of 70g of processed meat a day (about 1 slice of bacon or 1 sausage), and use vegan protein powder instead of dairy.

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #31 on: 10 February, 2016, 09:41:41 am »
I think what you use as alternatives to meat and animal products depends on what you are trying to achieve.  For example, for milk replacements, you are unlikely to find something that has exactly the same taste and texture as cow milk.  I've never liked cow milk, so have never felt the need to replace is for drinking on its own, but I use almond milk for making things that would normal have milk as an ingredient (porridge, pancakes, etc.).  I use the unsweetened stuff, but I don't really drink it on it's own.  I prefer the taste of hazelnut milk, but it does taste quite strongly of hazelnuts, so it's nice is some foods, but weird in others.

It's the same with butter.  You might not find one product that is a like for like substitution. I like the Pure spreads (both sunflower, olive and soya) for baking and cooking, but I've never used butter on bread or sandwiches, so would never think to use it on it's own.  I like balsamic vinegar on bread, or just bread.  My suggestion would be to think totally differently - as Helly said, try humous, nut butters or tahini, but accept that they are not butter.  Same for cheese too - you can make cashew cheese, or buy other vegan cheeses, but if you are expecting to taste of cheddar, or brie or whatever, you will be disappointed. Try a few, and think about what situations they would be useful - cooking for taste, in a recipe for texture, on it's own etc., but try not to get hung up on it not being like for like with cheddar.

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #32 on: 10 February, 2016, 10:10:51 am »
More interesting and concerning for me is the potential (but unproven) carcinogenic effects of dairy milk and processed meats. I don't think there's any evidence for it but I think it's one of those things that it's quite hard to get evidence for.
https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=carcinogenic+effects+of+processed+meat&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjezoKV-uzKAhVCyRQKHUcxA3QQgQMIHTAA
<i>Marmite slave</i>


Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #34 on: 10 February, 2016, 12:57:45 pm »
Worrying about methane emissions from livestock and then eating soy products makes me laugh very very much. Especially from those who purport to love 'the countryside'.

Other people's internal logic is a mystery. As I suppose mine is to them.

There is no vegan alternative to butter. There are products that can be used in similar circumstances, but only dairy fat from cows is butter, or even a vague approximation of it.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #35 on: 10 February, 2016, 01:52:42 pm »
Products used in similar circumstances are alternatives but just are not butter.

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #36 on: 10 February, 2016, 02:01:02 pm »
I made some vegan butter last night.  It was pretty good, just need to use refined rather than virgin coconut oil next time so it's a bit less coconutty.

I'm not looking for absolute replacements, expecting it to taste the same.  Just something that's similar enough it can help make the transition to a more plant-based diet and a different way of eating.
Up the hills and round the bends

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #37 on: 10 February, 2016, 02:22:23 pm »
Worrying about methane emissions from livestock and then eating soy products makes me laugh very very much. Especially from those who purport to love 'the countryside'.

Care to educate me?

As I understand it the issue with soy products is that land, particularly around the amazon, is deforested for soy bean plantations and that more in general it tends to be grown as a monocrop. 

As something like 80% of the crop is used to feed livestock, which as we know is a vastly less efficient way of ingesting calories than eating crops directly, it could justifiably be considered better to replace meat products with soy products.

But better isn't best and I would agree that eating no soya, or that matter any other product that was subject to intensive agriculture, would be the ideal solution.

I think there a distinction here between trying to be a paragon of virtue and just trying to make more informed choices, that have a lower environmental impact that those made previously.
Up the hills and round the bends

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #38 on: 10 February, 2016, 03:15:26 pm »
Why is soy bad?
a) food miles
b) deforestation
c) monoculture
d) GM (not that *I* have a problem with that, but it's certainly an issue to many)
e) it contains phytoestrogens
f) monsanto

The countryside in the UK as we know it looks like it does because of how we farm it. Get rid of livestock and you lose all that pasture, all that moorland and it will be replaced with arable prairie and monoculture forestry. You also lose the manure that goes back into the soil so any cropping becomes more reliant on mineral fertilisers which are not in anyone's list of sustainable things.

If you want to make a lower environmental impact eat less and eat local.

When I was at college bread was 'bad' as UK wheat varieties weren't high enough protein for bread. That's changed and we're now (as a nation) self sufficient in bread flour. Isn't a lot of rice grown here, though, nor soy... You can buy butter made less than 50 miles from where you live in most of the UK. That makes it 'good' in my book.

This is the most recent review on soy in the UK I can find. It's not fed (much) to ruminants- it's cheap protein for pig feed. Intensive pork is waaaay 'worse' than ruminants.

Kim

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Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #39 on: 10 February, 2016, 03:22:39 pm »
The countryside in the UK as we know it looks like it does because of how we farm it.

We're going way off-topic now, but it amazes me how often people fail to appreciate this.  Just because something's green doesn't mean it's natural (and for that matter just because it's natural doesn't mean it's good).

A 'natural' UK would mostly be forests and marshes.

Ben T

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #40 on: 10 February, 2016, 04:01:13 pm »
Why is soy bad?
a) food miles
b) deforestation
c) monoculture
d) GM (not that *I* have a problem with that, but it's certainly an issue to many)
e) it contains phytoestrogens
f) monsanto

I try and avoid it as I've read it inhibits (available) testosterone in men. Not sure about women, although point (e) sounds like it might be alluding to a similar effect.

Ben T

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #41 on: 10 February, 2016, 04:04:54 pm »
If you want to make a lower environmental impact eat less and eat local.

When I was at college bread was 'bad' as UK wheat varieties weren't high enough protein for bread. That's changed and we're now (as a nation) self sufficient in bread flour. Isn't a lot of rice grown here, though, nor soy... You can buy butter made less than 50 miles from where you live in most of the UK. That makes it 'good' in my book.

This is the most recent review on soy in the UK I can find. It's not fed (much) to ruminants- it's cheap protein for pig feed. Intensive pork is waaaay 'worse' than ruminants.

Especially pork - the uk pig industry is in a state at the moment due to massive oversupply and too little demand driving prices down, apparently a lot of it is Putin's fault because sanctions mean european producers are flooding the uk market with cheap pig instead of selling them to russia as they used to. So buy british pork if you can.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #42 on: 10 February, 2016, 04:58:17 pm »
Why is soy bad?
a) food miles
b) deforestation
c) monoculture
d) GM (not that *I* have a problem with that, but it's certainly an issue to many)
e) it contains phytoestrogens
f) monsanto

I try and avoid it as I've read it inhibits (available) testosterone in men. Not sure about women, although point (e) sounds like it might be alluding to a similar effect.

[OT]

Wasn't The (contraceptive) Pill made from synthetic hormones derived from soy?

ian

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #43 on: 10 February, 2016, 06:51:31 pm »
Wild yams. Not tame ones.

Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #44 on: 10 February, 2016, 09:13:50 pm »
Wild yams. Not tame ones.

or talking ones
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Mr Larrington

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Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #45 on: 11 February, 2016, 01:12:07 am »
Wild?  They're absolutely livid!
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T42

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Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #46 on: 11 February, 2016, 01:01:36 pm »
Oh the humanity of actually giving a fuck about how animals are treated?

The animals exist.  If it were not for humans breeding them for the purpose they wouldn't have existed.  What happens if you remove the purpose?  What do oyu do with all the animals?  Turn them loose to forage? Set up vast reserves and feed them to the end of their days? On what, and what do the rest of us eat in the meantime?

If you don't want anyone to enjoy animal produce then you need to journey back in time and kill the bloke who invented animal husbandry.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Kim

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Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #47 on: 11 February, 2016, 01:19:37 pm »
If you don't want anyone to enjoy animal produce then you need to journey back in time and kill the bloke who invented animal husbandry.

That just shows a lack of imagination.  All you have to do is make animal produce obsolete, and let market forces take care of it for you.

I'd suggest either coming up with a way to make animal products that's cheaper than using actual animals, or engineering a cultural shift away from consuming them.  Both would seem far more feasible than time travel.

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Vegan alternatives to butter
« Reply #48 on: 11 February, 2016, 01:28:10 pm »
Right enough: work of a moment.

In the meantime, pass the cheese.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight