AAA Points

[Martin]

I have a question about AAA points on DIYs...

If I plan a DIY route with a suitable minimum distance, then on the day I decide that I want to take a slight detour for even more hill-climbing fun, could I get the AAA points for the extra altitude of the detour or just the fun?   

This is assuming that it's not such a big detour to put me outside of the time limits and that I hit all the control points as planned.

 

not a problem as long as you do the original entered distance within the time limit; ie if you enter a 50k DIY then spend a total of 100k finding every possible extra hill you have to finish in 5 hrs but will get the AAA for the whole 100;

note that it's a blanket minimum speed 10kph for rides up to 199k; 14.3 for 200+ and some Maniac will be along soon to say what it is over 700k 

[tonyh]

13.3km/hour         

(See Handbook, 9.7.1)
(For BRM, see Handbook, 10)

[Aunt Maud]

But, but, but ........go over 2500km and you get to go on a AAA holiday jaunt @ 8.3 kph 

Which has got me thinking about a jolly big seaside loop with ferries and passports. 

[rabbit]

I have a question about AAA points on DIYs...

If I plan a DIY route with a suitable minimum distance, then on the day I decide that I want to take a slight detour for even more hill-climbing fun, could I get the AAA points for the extra altitude of the detour or just the fun?   

This is assuming that it's not such a big detour to put me outside of the time limits and that I hit all the control points as planned.

Yes

You get the AAAs for all the climbing you do within the time limit as long as, like you say, you hit all the controls.

[Aunt Maud]

I thought I'd bring this over here 'coz it's where it belongs in AAA land.............From https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=45436.775

Repeating hill climbs in a perm are a long way from where Audax started - long point-to-point events.

So's 60km AAA DIY's

These trivial rides are also against the original intention of the AAA scheme.  It was a series for those who enjoyed hard riding. 

I'm curious............

How did they manage to become the standard way of amassing AAA points ?

I'd like it if 200's were the minimum distance for the AAA champs, as rides of 50km's and 60km's is just plain daft in an audax club.

What next battery bikes ?

[hillbilly]

In short, and in no particular order:

- DIY by GPS
- validation of the same permanent more than once in a season
- members' lack of audacity

I rode 50s when I was chasing AAA.  But largely because I was unfit and 90kg at the start of the Audax year.  As I got fitter and lighter, they pretty much fell from my schedule.  There's a place for them (and 100s) but at present they are relied upon far too much imo.  Each to their own though, as it is no doubt fun and satisfying to those who do them.

I currently have more regard to the informal BR AAA list on Steve's site.  That list is more in tune with my own worldview.  landing more than 200aaa in that unofficial list was by far the most challenging and personally rewarding aspect of my 2013 season.

[jamesld8]

There's a place for them (and 100s) but at present they are relied upon far too much imo. 

I do do 50 / 100km DIY -AAA but only in general during winter when either weather and roads are dubious. IME it`s difficult during some winters to find an opportunity when roads safe to ride so fitting in a 50 for AAA RTY works for me. It`s not always how I particularly want to get AAA points but it`s within regs, if enough people object then get it changed !   

[hillbilly]

One day I hope to.  Or at least change the emphasis so that members are given a greater accolade for tackling longer audax events over shorter ones.

But for now, as you imply, we rightly play by Steve's entirely reasonable rules.

No idea what your rolling eyes are for, though.  The bit you conveniently edited out of the quote hopefully made it clear that I personally see a place for them (winter routes is one of them, as you point out, given one can often offset ice risk by starting at 10/11 and finishing before sunset, at least down in the South).

[jamesld8]

Maybe if rules are to be changed a sliding scale of ascent could be considered--ie at least 20m ascent /km for routes less than 100km; that may have effect of making them  genuinely harder rides.

And yes longer rides >>>more accolade too

[Aunt Maud]

I must admit, it's been nice to do AAA 100's over the winter for GdS and I can ride to the start of a couple of the perms from mum's place in Essex, instead of getting in the car and driving across the bridge.

[Teapot]

It's possible to expend just as much energy riding a fast 50km audax route with 1.75AAA points tariff using a heavy steel winter roofed bike as employing a lightweight carbon rocket ship to get round a summer 200km with good road surfaces,easy directions and relatively restrained hill gradients.Why should distance be the only legitimate criteria for judging the value of a ride?Not everyone wants to spend 10 hours riding winter 200km every weekend but they can keep fit by doing shorter but harder rides.If you've ever tried to ride the hills around Dover and Folkestone which are the only high ground within easy reach of East Kent riders you'd appreciate what an effort continuous steep gradient climbs can require compared to longer gentle gradients.

[jsabine]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that short (steep, hilly) rides don't have a value, merely wondering whether the framework of audax - which at the very least has its roots in distance riding - is the most appropriate for place for that value to be recognised. After all, if there are going to be hilliness points for 100 and even 50km rides, why not a distance point when you've done 100k?





(D&RFC)

[Teapot]

I don't think it would matter if 100km rides were awarded 1 distance point.Why do you have to ride 200km to get 2 distance points but get 0 distance points for covering 199km?Everyone has a different view on what constitutes a long distance depending on their ability and experience.However rides with over a 1000m of climbing are harder work than those with a few 100 metres so it's nice if that can be recognised by award of AAA points.Of course riding on a flat course into a howling headwind is also very difficult but awarding some sort of points for those conditions would be problematic.AAA points keep me interested in riding,covering distance to meet arbitrary criteria does not but perhaps Audax UK can do without a big percentage of it's current membership and just concentrate on long distance rides of 200km+.

[mattc]

In that case, lets have 0.1Aaa for every 100m of climb.

[jsabine]

Is that significantly different to 0.25 of an AAA point for 250m of climb (or in the right circumstances, part thereof)?

[haffers]

to date my only 200k AAA audax was The Aaanfractuous though more are planned. nov, dec, jan & feb I kept AAA rides going with 100k rides.

I do not think I would be able to do 200's in the winter so I believe 100k AAA rides have validity.

In my limited experience the step up in pure distance is easier to manage than the AAA increases so hopefully the 100k will be left ok

[Aunt Maud]

200km seems to be the minimum audax distance in continental land. You'll get a very odd look if you suggest otherwise and they probably think we're quaint with our dinky 50km AAA brevets.

If I can do loads of 50km rides and get the AAA points championship, why can't I do Everesting for AAA (not that I want to, that is) ?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Anything below 200km is a populaire brevet, originally intended for the women and children while the men rode their 200+km randonneur brevets.

[Huff n Puff]

I have no problem with 50s and 100s. I do 100k DIY AAAs regularly (not 50s). They are useful in the winter, I find them as difficult/easy as a flat 200k so what's the problem?

Another thing that should be factored in, is that depending where you live these rides can be difficult to plot. I spent a lot of time plotting and testing my DIYs before they actually worked in terms of climbing rate, distance, rideable winter roads, avoiding bridleways, refining the number of controls to a manageable amount etc. In fact, my 100s ended up being either 120k or 140k in order to make them meet the AAA targets and climb rates.

I couldn't do a 50k AAA from my house even if I wanted to because the hills aren't big enough, so my 100s tend to concentrate the hill climbing in sections I ride out to. I suspect that to do a 50k, many people would have to drive/ride to the start which makes me think that they are either of limited appeal, or the ride to the start means they are effectively longer rides anyway.

Finally, if 100s were stopped, I'm pretty sure a number of people would lose interest in AAA and possibly leave Audax UK.

SO LEAVE IT AS IT IS!!!!

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I've done several 50 and 150 events and quite a few 100 events, both with and without AAAs. A pleasant morning or day out with new and old friends. I can't remember ever bothering with a brevet card for such a short solo perm though. I just call it 'a ride' instead.

[marylogic]

Does the minimum climb rate apply to the distance of the event entered or is it for the distance actually covered?

Eg if you entered a 100k DIY by GPS but actually rode 160k would you need to climb 1500 m for AAA or would it have to be 2400?

[Aunt Maud]

Does the minimum climb rate apply to the distance of the event entered or is it for the distance actually covered?

Eg if you entered a 100k DIY by GPS but actually rode 160k would you need to climb 1500 m for AAA or would it have to be 2400?

Distance covered, unless there's a stretch in 100km increments that is sufficiently hilly enough for AAA, then you get the points for the hilly stretch regardless of total distance.

For example you do a 1000km that has 6000m of climbing, but the climbing is all done in a 400km part of the ride then you get 6AAA points, but if it's all spread out evenly you get nowt.

[marylogic]

Thanks

[citoyen]

That sounds back to front to me (I mean, 160k can't be a subset of a 100k ride in the same way that 400k can be a subset of a 1000k ride). If you're claiming AAA points for a 100k diy, surely all the climbing needs to be within a 100k stretch?

I know it was a hypothetical question but I'd be surprised if you could get a route validated that much over distance anyway.

[Aunt Maud]

That sounds back to front to me (I mean, 160k can't be a subset of a 100k ride in the same way that 400k can be a subset of a 1000k ride). If you're claiming AAA points for a 100k diy, surely all the climbing needs to be within a 100k stretch?

I know it was a hypothetical question but I'd be surprised if you could get a route validated that much over distance anyway.

I did just that on the 19th Feb, declared as a 100 DIY by GPS. Planned, submitted and ridden as a 137km. AAA for a 100 km stretch only.

They wouldn't give me any AAA points for going over the Dartford bridge......in a bike transporter.....twice, but I got a Strava KOM for it