Author Topic: <whispers> Canti brake recommendations please (Read 8392 times)

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #25 on:** 15 May, 2012, 10:10:45 pm »

Can anyone enlighten me as to how V-brakes compare with cantilevers for stopping power, assuming we're talking about the Tektro CR520/720 style of old fashioned canti and not the "low profile" type?

Oh, and also, the best drop-bar levers to use with either/both?

frankly frankie · « **Reply #26 on:** 15 May, 2012, 11:13:07 pm »

Quote from: Polar Bear on 15 May, 2012, 09:05:21 pm

On that basis then the Suntour SE's and the IRD's are no good then?

IME Suntours SE's are low profile. And I agree with earlier posts, they're rubbish.

Torslanda · « **Reply #27 on:** 15 May, 2012, 11:32:38 pm »

Are DiaCompe 987s crap? I have a set, new and unused.

They look like the very devil to fettle (there's some kind of internal tension spring arrangement instead of the usual pin-in-the-mounting arrangement.) As a result I've shied away from fitting them and stuck with the STX cantis.

Beautiful. I'm just not sure if they'll be an improvement . . .

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #28 on:** 16 May, 2012, 05:13:33 am »

DC987s are incredibly easy to centre and to adjust spring tension.

Low profile cantilevers require careful adjustment of the straddle cable height (and straddle hanger width in some instances) to get good performance. Wide profile cantilevers are very forgiving of non-optimum straddle cable height, leading to their reputation for strength, but can clout heels and panniers.

clarion · « **Reply #29 on:** 16 May, 2012, 09:53:15 am »

Heels?

Either you have your brakes on the chainstay or use clown shoes to ride.

I will concede that (in a very few cases) pannier clearance can be an issue, but I'd be more concerned about heelstrike (on the pannier, not the brake) if it were that far forward.

GrahamG · « **Reply #30 on:** 16 May, 2012, 10:00:57 am »

Quote from: PloddinPedro on 15 May, 2012, 10:10:45 pm

Can anyone enlighten me as to how V-brakes compare with cantilevers for stopping power, assuming we're talking about the Tektro CR520/720 style of old fashioned canti and not the "low profile" type?

Oh, and also, the best drop-bar levers to use with either/both?

I found the cable routing on drop bars cancelled out any kind of improved brake performance (couldn't be bothered trying spiffy expensive cables etc. and just swapped for canti's as I didn't like the shape of the drop bar v-brake levers) - if I genuinely wanted to get better braking on the tourer, I'd just fit flat bars and v's.

bikenrrd · « **Reply #31 on:** 16 May, 2012, 10:05:35 am »

Magura Hydraulic rim brakes if you want excellent braking power when you've got a tortuous or long cable path.
Unfortunately, the drop-bar versions (HS66) are rarer than hen's teeth and more expensive than gold.
The flat-bar versions (HS33) are still available and at reasonable money.

For a brand new, no expenses spared tandem I'd fit Hope disk brakes with the V-twin system:
Hope V-twin

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #32 on:** 16 May, 2012, 10:48:55 am »

GrahamG - I know what you mean about cable routing -

bikenrrd - I agree about the strength of hydraulics (the Hope looks tasty!)

- but I’m working on a tandem trike and don’t have the budget to go hydraulic. It has forks with canti bosses on front and rear, so I’m thinking V-brakes on the back (to avoid clashes with the downtube) plus matching V-brakes on the front bosses unless, perhaps, the wide frogs-legs style cantis are actually more powerful than the V-brakes. Hence the question was: all other things being equal, are the V-brakes as good as the frogs-legs cantis?

My education about the physics of this is inadequate; I suspect it all comes down to the science of levers and fulcrums as to which design is the more powerful. Or perhaps they're about the same?

That sage Sheldon Brown states: "V-Brakes and other direct-pull cantilevers have more mechanical advantage than other brakes, so they require special hand levers with less-than-average mechanical advantage to keep the overall mechanical advantage in a useful range." but it isn't clear to me from this whether the V-brake with matching lever ends up giving the same or better braking than the frogs-legs cantis.

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #33 on:** 16 May, 2012, 11:06:18 am »

Quote from: clarion on 16 May, 2012, 09:53:15 am

Heels?

Either you have your brakes on the chainstay or use clown shoes to ride.

I will concede that (in a very few cases) pannier clearance can be an issue, but I'd be more concerned about heelstrike (on the pannier, not the brake) if it were that far forward.

Low profile cantilever brakes were developed for the seatstays of MTBs which have severely sloping top tubes, short chainstays and long cranks. Heels of big folk easily overlap with cantilever brakes in those circumstances. Not everybody plods around on a Dawes Galaxy with horizontal top tube and long chainstays.

clarion · « **Reply #34 on:** 16 May, 2012, 11:09:11 am »

Well, they should!

mcshroom · « **Reply #35 on:** 16 May, 2012, 11:24:31 am »

My tourer's oryxs would fall in the nasty camp, but (other than removing the crap OEM pads and fitting decent ones) I've never had a problem with them, even stoping while going down silly hills on the KTTR. I can't tell much difference between them and the long drop DPs on the raleigh tbh.

alexb · « **Reply #36 on:** 16 May, 2012, 11:26:16 am »

I agree with the poster above. Fit Magura rim brakes using flat bar levers, you can fettle them to work with bullhorns, and move on.
They're not that expensive, the pads move straight towards the rims, so always wear exactly the same way, evenly right to the end of the life of the pad and then you simply wind back the adjuster, pop in the new pad, no tools required, and ride on.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #37 on:** 16 May, 2012, 11:27:16 am »

Quote from: PloddinPedro on 16 May, 2012, 10:48:55 am

whether the V-brake with matching lever ends up giving the same or better braking than the frogs-legs cantis.

I'm a fan on frogleggs, but V brakes (with the correct levers) are more powerful.

*however* I have had V brakes (deore) fail - the noodle breaking.

tiermat · « **Reply #38 on:** 16 May, 2012, 01:53:10 pm »

Surely this is all you need to improve the braking?

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #39 on:** 16 May, 2012, 02:07:19 pm »

Quote from: tiermat on 16 May, 2012, 01:53:10 pm

Surely this is all you need to improve the braking?

A cobbler?

Somnolent · « **Reply #40 on:** 16 May, 2012, 02:10:37 pm »

I'm in the

camp for Suntour SE !
They require careful setting up (as in reading and following the instructions - not as in assuming you kow how brakes works

) but once correctly fitted, and especially combined with Koolstop Salmon (or Dual-Compound) Eagle II pads (with the canti post) they are just as effective, and easy to adjust, as ~~tiermat's suggestion~~ modern dual pivots. Actually I think they are better than the very long drop Alhongas which lack the QR lever. Certainly they are strong enough to make tyre/road friction the limiting factor on 25mm tyres.

frankly frankie · « **Reply #41 on:** 16 May, 2012, 04:49:54 pm »

Quote from: PloddinPedro on 16 May, 2012, 10:48:55 am

My education about the physics of this is inadequate; I suspect it all comes down to the science of levers and fulcrums as to which design is the more powerful. Or perhaps they're about the same?

I think the difference is mainly down to cable stretch (the yoke cable on cantis) and in some cases cable hanger flex (cantis again). The irony is that many V-brakes are shop-fitted with sprung noodles in the cable to replicate the canti 'feel'.

The only thing wrong with (unsprung) V-brakes is they are undeniably ugly.

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #42 on:** 16 May, 2012, 05:09:15 pm »

Quote from: frankly frankie on 16 May, 2012, 04:49:54 pm

.................... The irony is that many V-brakes are shop-fitted with sprung noodles in the cable to replicate the canti 'feel'.

The only thing wrong with (unsprung) V-brakes is they are undeniably ugly.

I have to reveal my ignorance here, never actually having had any V-brakes as yet, but what's meant by the "sprung noodle" ?

TimC · « **Reply #43 on:** 16 May, 2012, 06:00:39 pm »

I'm another that's managed to get Suntour SEs to work well on MrsC's commuting Dawes Vantage. Much better than the supplied Tektro Oryx.

GrahamG · « **Reply #44 on:** 17 May, 2012, 11:54:10 am »

Only just remembered that the OP is female! Having experimented with many different bikes/brakes for the wife, I've come to the conclusion that when using drop bars ladies with small hands need the best brakes possible just to make up for the disadvantage of having smaller/less strong hands. Levers as well as brakes can make a difference... here's a summary of few combo's we've tried or have in use (all with koostop pads):

Campag ergos + unbranded calipers = passable in dry, terrifying when wet
Campag ergos + Shimano br650's = Excellent in dry, midly scary wet
SRAM levers + shimano br650's = noticeable improvement in braking power from hoods over campag levers
SRAM levers + Avid BB7's = Superb whatever the weather
Avid V-brakes + flat bar levers = Better than the BB7's + drop lever in the dry, perfectly OK when wet (even fully loaded).

I'm betting that decent canti's but with flat bar levers would not be too far off the V-brake experience.

clarion · « **Reply #45 on:** 17 May, 2012, 12:08:00 pm »

I don't think Polar Bear is female, unless something drastic has happened since we last met him.

I think your point about small hands => short throw on brakes is a good one. Cantis do tend to need a decent length of pull, but they are much more effective than dps or even discs at easing off from speed. I find both very effective for stopping, but rather grabby - a kind of on/off for the discs, which I don't find useful or comfortable. I prefer better control.

Biggsy · « **Reply #46 on:** 17 May, 2012, 12:28:25 pm »

Blame PB for giving his bike a female name.

Polar Bear · « **Reply #47 on:** 17 May, 2012, 12:39:11 pm »

Hang on ......

< checks >

Still got all the dangly bits. PHEW!!!

The esteemed Margaret Hilda came already named being a Roberts painted in blue. Being of a non-conservative persuasion this irks me but also it amuses me that I place my arse onto her, grip firmly and take control.

There has been much discussion of what is good and bad. What is clear from this and previous canti brake threads is that there is large range of success, or indeed lack of when setting up and using cantis. My disappointments come from using Avid Shorty 6, Tektro Oryx and Suntour including SE's. To my mind, that lot represents a significant sample of the stuff out there.

I am prepared to give it one more try. I am even prepared to give the Suntour's another benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately I've mislaid my fitting instructions for the Suntours so can anybody point me to some please? My google fu finds lots of discussion but no actual links.

If my perseverance fails to bring success then I'm going to try Froglegs.

GrahamG · « **Reply #48 on:** 17 May, 2012, 03:03:42 pm »

I get so easily confused.

zigzag · « **Reply #49 on:** 17 May, 2012, 04:18:47 pm »

Quote from: frankly frankie on 16 May, 2012, 04:49:54 pm

I think the difference is mainly down to cable stretch (the yoke cable on cantis) and in some cases cable hanger flex (cantis again). The irony is that many V-brakes are shop-fitted with sprung noodles in the cable to replicate the canti 'feel'.

The only thing wrong with (unsprung) V-brakes is they are undeniably ugly.

"sprung" noodles are usually fitted to the front v-brake on cheap bikes, to prevent newbie cyclists from locking up the front wheel and going over the bars. (why replicate what's inferior?..

)