Author Topic: Shorter cranks?  (Read 5429 times)

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #25 on: 15 January, 2022, 01:06:02 pm »
I dropped down to a 170 crank for my Rando/endurance bike build. The gearing is a good bit lower than the other rigs too and I find it very comfortable humming away with the smaller cranks. The BB is also lower so frankly a longer crank would be hazardous with pedal strike what with big flat pedals and heading off the tarmac..
My partner is about your height and has 165's on her Rando. Low gears like you too. Loves it.
As others have mentioned,  Ive found age related knee damage is more niggly with larger cranks. Not sure of the mechanics regards to that.
I do still road race with longer cranks, but accept there will be a price to be paid. Endurance stuff though, when power output is dialled way back Im loving the shorter cranks.

This is my experience. I appreciate that a sample group of one is not good and that others might have different experiences - but:
In my experience the biomechanics are relatively simple. As the cartiledge in the knee wears up to the point where there isn't any and you're running on bone-bone interface the angle through which your knee can bend reduces dramatically. In my case before joint replacement I was down to 90°. I don't know what my knee angle was when I was young and spinning 175 cranks since I only learnt about this during physio after the op and with a replacement joint you're not supposed to go beyond 135° ('cos that's the design limit of the joint). What happens is that when the angle reduces eventually you can't bend the knee enough at the top of the stroke to go over the top. You get round this by pushing a bit with the other leg (at a not particularly efficient part of the stroke) giving pain in the bad joint and fatigue in the good one (and it often appears to affect one knee long before the other). Raising the saddle means that your good leg is less efficient and the bad leg, having an articulation that is stiffer than it should be, ,doesn't want to go round at the bottom of the stroke. If you can't get the bars up to balance the new saddle height your back can suffer as well! (I know all this because at the time I was piloting tandems in a club for visually handicapped and at the end I had the seatpost over the limit marks and the bars about 15-20cm too low - i stopped doing the tandemming!)
After the joint replacement I continued with 165 cranks and they were wonderful, 170's were just a bit too tight. After 3 years 170's have become more useable and now after 4 years, while I prefer the shorter cranks, if nothing else were available I could quite happily ride 170's (although not 175 mtb cranks though).
For the record I am 1m80 now but I've lost at least 5cms due to wear in the lumbar vertebrae. Don't ask the leg length, I haven't a clue but the height reduction is due to the back so the leg length won't have changed that much in the last half century.

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #26 on: 16 January, 2022, 11:29:23 pm »
Rode 175's today on the tandem.  tbh, I didnt feel any diff in crank length (in spite of last 450km being on 170's) due to the big difference in feel on being on the tandem.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #27 on: 16 January, 2022, 11:34:53 pm »

Excellent thread necromancy team!

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #28 on: 18 January, 2022, 04:21:21 pm »
People obsess over leg length when considering cranks.

Isn't foot length more important?  (if you have long legs, you probably have longer feet)
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #29 on: 18 January, 2022, 04:42:11 pm »
People obsess over leg length when considering cranks.

Isn't foot length more important?  (if you have long legs, you probably have longer feet)


. My legs are 910 mm and my feet are size 48; my cranks are 185mm.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #30 on: 18 January, 2022, 05:19:57 pm »
Surely it should be related to stride length? For which leg length and foot length are factors but not the sole ones. Also, it's (obviously) not constant, so any crank length has to be a compromise.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #31 on: 18 January, 2022, 06:50:17 pm »
Surely it should be related to stride length? For which leg length and foot length are factors but not the sole ones. Also, it's (obviously) not constant, so any crank length has to be a compromise.
Could screw in-out cranks be rigged up as a way gearing a single speed, or varying the repetitive nature of pedalling on long rides? I bet there’s some biomechanics to justify (in the Biopace sense of the word) automatic variation depending on cadence, or something. Maybe I should patent it, get a leg up on the supply of fancy bike parts?

Also, groan at the _sole_ factors. :)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #32 on: 18 January, 2022, 07:23:41 pm »
Also, groan at the _sole_ factors. :)
Accident! Hadn't even noticed it. But as you did, I assume we can't say the same about "get a leg up"...

As to the automatic variation of crank length depending on cadence (or power or gearing or... ), doubtless it could be justified and some people could be persuaded to part with large sums of money for the chance to lose more in mechanical efficiency than they gained in biomechanical.  ;)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #33 on: 18 January, 2022, 07:25:48 pm »
I've just invented the crank version of a dropper seatpost.  For extra leverage when you're getting gnarly...  What could *possibly* go wrong?

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #34 on: 18 January, 2022, 07:44:58 pm »
Don't worry about that, put it up on Kickstarter and sort out any problems in production!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #35 on: 18 January, 2022, 09:42:38 pm »
Crank length has no effect on efficiency unless you are doing an all out sprint from a standing start. You should pick whatever length works for you.
https://cyclingtips.com/2017/09/crank-length-forget-leverage-power-fit/
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #36 on: 19 January, 2022, 10:07:40 am »
That is a great article.

Strong suggestion that if you are concerned about, or suffer from, overuse injuries, you can benefit from shorter cranks (and higher cadence).
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #37 on: 19 January, 2022, 11:45:28 am »
I'm surprised that no-one has yet challenged the assumption that both cranks have to be the same size.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #38 on: 19 January, 2022, 12:39:06 pm »
I'm surprised that no-one has yet challenged the assumption that both cranks have to be the same size.

Only if both your legs are the same...

BFC

  • ACME Wheelwright and Bike Fettler
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #39 on: 20 January, 2022, 12:30:16 pm »
I'm surprised that no-one has yet challenged the assumption that both cranks have to be the same size.

Only if both your legs are the same...
I'm surprised that everyone so far has assumed that the crank arms are straight.... http://pardo.net/bike/pic/mobi/d.pmp-cranks/

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #40 on: 20 January, 2022, 12:45:34 pm »
I'm surprised that no-one has yet challenged the assumption that both cranks have to be the same size.
[/quote[

Only if both your legs are the same...
I'm surprised that everyone so far has assumed that the crank arms are straight.... http://pardo.net/bike/pic/mobi/d.pmp-cranks/



Even those cranks are effectively straight...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #41 on: 20 January, 2022, 01:23:38 pm »
Does anyone here have any experience of using cranks of differing sizes left and right? Or know anyone who does so?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #42 on: 20 January, 2022, 01:55:27 pm »
HK has spent quite a bit of time pedalling with 165 LH cranks and 170mm RH cranks (lots of brevets) as partial compensation for a leg length difference. The remainder is made up with custom CF orthotics but cycling shoes tend to be too tight to compensate for the full length difference. Nowadays she tends to use a 5mm shim under the LH cleat instead of different crank lengths but has no real preference for either method.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #43 on: 20 January, 2022, 02:00:02 pm »
I've been using a 10mm shorter left crank for a couple of years, to compensate for a corresponding discrepancy in femur length.  It completely stopped the Achilles pain I was suffering.  It took a while to get used to pushing a different gear with each leg, but I suppose I was effectively pushing a different gear with each leg already.

I could probably have achieved a similar result with orthotics or cleat shims, but given my style of riding I preferred to make the bike fit the rider rather than make the rider fit the bike: I didn't want to lose the walkability of SPD sandals.

Given that crank length appears to be non-critical for performance, this seems like something anyone could adapt to.  Though you're only likely to want to if you have a mismatch in your leg or foot sizes, or range of motion.

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #44 on: 20 January, 2022, 03:55:43 pm »
Interesting.  I've got 6mm of shim under my left cleat.  Maybe I should try it!

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #45 on: 20 January, 2022, 04:45:05 pm »
Hmm, don't shims and crank lengths do different things?

With a 5mm shim, your foot will be 5mm higher at both BDC and TDC.
With a 5mm shorter crank, your foot will be 5mm higher at BDC, but 5mm *lower* at TDC.

Is it just at the BDC end that 'counts'?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #46 on: 20 January, 2022, 04:48:26 pm »
If you want to get the most aero position possible or reduce the range of joint motion, go with short cranks. Cleat shims and suchlike are generally cheaper than buying an extra crank.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #47 on: 20 January, 2022, 04:48:44 pm »
Depends what you're trying to achieve.  The BDC end is what matters for preventing over-extension with the short leg, for which a shim will suffice (but turn your MTB shoes into road shoes).  A shorter crank also reduces the range of motion needed by the knee and hip.

I've seen some people argue that lower-leg discrepancies are best dealt with using shims and upper leg discrepancies using crank length, but I'm not convinced of the biomechanics.

The other use for short cranks is that you need less space for feet and knees inside a fairing.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #48 on: 20 January, 2022, 06:30:52 pm »
Even without a fairing, shorter cranks will reduce toe overlap, which bothers some people not at all and some quite a bit.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Shorter cranks?
« Reply #49 on: 22 January, 2022, 08:25:46 am »
Anybody got different pedal axle length?  My right leg always feels as if it is too close to the crank arm. I was thinking about getting a longer axle for the pedal.