Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: LEE on 18 July, 2011, 08:58:01 am
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Cav has 19 stage wins now (and far more appreciated abroad than in the UK).
Realistically how many will he have by the end of his career?
He's been fortunate to work for a team which focusses on stage wins rather than GC so his main rivals have not had the unquestioned support of a 9-man train. If he can keep a similar setup then I can see him getting #3 in the all-time list, possibly #2 if he gets very lucky and can stay motivated to ride four more times.
If he ends up in a "normal" team then I can see his strike rate going down to 1 or 2 wins per tour as it becomes more of an open bunch sprint with his rivals.
1. Eddy Merckx, BEL- - - - - 34
2. Bernard Hinault, FRA- - - 28
3. Lance Armstrong, USA- - - 25
3. Andre Leducq, FRA - - - - 25
5. Andre Darrigade, FRA- - - 22
6. Nicolas Frantz, LUX - - - 20
7. Francois Faber, LUX - - - 19
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The most interesting number in that list is Armstrong. It is numbers like that coupled with the comparison to this years tour that demonstrate just how dominant he was.
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At current strike rate ( 4 or 5 stages a tour) he only needs 2 more tours with an 8 man lead out train to be around #2. and would make #1 in 3-4 tours. Whether he can maintain current form and a supportive team is the key to it and Sky won't be that team. Yes, GT, EBH and BS would make a good leadout train for the last 1.5km, but the remaining team members would be climbers to help BW in the mountains and therefore would not be chasing down the breakaways in the manner of Einsel etc.
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The most interesting number in that list is Armstrong. It is numbers like that coupled with the comparison to this years tour that demonstrate just how dominant he was.
Although it was just the one stage win, a time trial, one year.
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Realistically, how much longer will his career last? What's the lifespan of a top sprinter? Petacchi may not be quite the force he once was, but he still seems to have a decent turn of pace at 37 - enough to beat most of his rivals on his day. And Zabel kept winning races into his late 30s - and probably would have won more if Cav hadn't come along...
Even if Cav retired at 32, he only has to average 2-3 wins per Tour to overhaul Merckx's total.
d.
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Whilst he's a good little lad, unless he wins 5 tours as well, he won't make the top three on Lee's list. ;)
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At current strike rate ( 4 or 5 stages a tour) he only needs 2 more tours with an 8 man lead out train to be around #2. and would make #1 in 3-4 tours. Whether he can maintain current form and a supportive team is the key to it and Sky won't be that team. Yes, GT, EBH and BS would make a good leadout train for the last 1.5km, but the remaining team members would be climbers to help BW in the mountains and therefore would not be chasing down the breakaways in the manner of Einsel etc.
That's true. But he does seem to be developing as a rider, winning stages that nobody would expect him to with uphill finishes. He'll never get on the podium IMO. He does need his team. I think it's a matter of whether he need Renshaw on his team, or whether he could grab the wheel of another rider from another team instead. His former team mate who beat him the other week might cause him problems though. He's a great sprinter too.
Heseems to be better known that Wiggins, so it looks as if stage wins trump overall placings in the GC. but if Wiggins should wear yellow in Paris, I think Cavendish would either fall to the wayside or enter the limelight as a sideshow to Wiggins.
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Have there ever been a world champion Madison pair go on to take home top honours at the tour in the overall and green I wonder?
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Merckx and Sercu were a top Six-Day pairing. Sercu was an Amateur Sprint World Champ and won the Tour's Green Jersey.
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He will get 33. Nobody is allowed to beat Merckx!
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Well, I know I can't push out 80kph after a 200km audax. Not before, either. But then I am >50.
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That's true. But he does seem to be developing as a rider, winning stages that nobody would expect him to with uphill finishes.
I wonder if he'll go the same way as Thor as he gets older - maybe lose a little of his top-end speed but develop into more of an all-rounder.
Who knows? Maybe one day he'll even be able to go up mountains without a tow off the team car. ;)
d.
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Whilst he's a good little lad, unless he wins 5 tours as well, he won't make the top three on Lee's list. ;)
On the other hand, he's already won 7 more stages than Miguel Indurain. 19 more, if you don't count time trials.
I did wonder if Cav was already the best sprinter ever - apparently not. I had to look up Andre Darrigade as I know nothing about him. Sounds like quite a character.
d.
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His lead out train is very important to Cav BUT, as he has proved in the past, he can win stages by doing a McEwan and latching on the what he percieves to be the most beneficial wheel when his train lets him down. If he does go to Sky (which seems to be a given now), he will still win, even with less team support.
If he can keep his form/ avoid serious injury, Merckx tally will be at risk I think.
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Well, I know I can't push out 80kph after a 200km audax. Not before, either. But then I am >50.
same here & as you say it's an age thing ;)
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I tweeted last night "When does the campaign start to get Cav named Sports Personality of the Year?"
It's already had ten times more RTs than anything else I've ever posted!
And the Telegraph are on board:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/8655145/Tour-de-France-Mark-Cavendish-deserves-fame-for-all-that-pain.html
(Never imagined a day would come when I'd post two Telegraph articles for positive reasons!)
d.
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I tweeted last night "When does the campaign start to get Cav named Sports Personality of the Year?"
But it's not cycling's turn until about 2051 :-[
1965 Simpson, T
<43 years>
2008 Hoy, C
<43 years>
2051....
Seriously, Cav is already probably the greatest sprinter ever.
Whether he manages to widen his skill set to become a great climber, time-triallist or barouder remains to be seen. It's all-rounders that win grand tours.
There is a precedent - Laurent Jalabert: Ace sprinter>Nasty accident with policeman>Ace climber (although I wouldn't wish collisions with policemen on anyone).
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/8655145/Tour-de-France-Mark-Cavendish-deserves-fame-for-all-that-pain.html
Cavendish, a man about as adept at cycling up mountains as my brother-in-law
The author's brother in law must be a pretty good cyclist then, probably good enough to turn pro.
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Cavendish, a man about as adept at cycling up mountains as my brother-in-law
The author's brother in law must be a pretty good cyclist then, probably good enough to turn pro.
Us ordinary mortals tend to forget that even the Lanterne Rouge would leave us standing in any terrain.
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Us ordinary mortals tend to forget that even the Lanterne Rouge would leave us standing in any terrain.
Not to mention the other team members who failed to make the squad and the kids who never got signed up by the team at all.
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Forgetting number of wins for a moment, how would Cav do against Cipollini if Cav went back in a time machine and raced Cipo at his best?
I find it remarkable that such relatively small riders, such as Mark Cavendish and Victoria Pendleton, repeatedly outsprint bulging-muscled big powerhouses. I know part of it is down to aerodynamics (and Cav gets into particularly aero position for a sprinter), but what else is itt? How do they physically do it?
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Cavendish, a man about as adept at cycling up mountains as my brother-in-law
The author's brother in law must be a pretty good cyclist then, probably good enough to turn pro.
Us ordinary mortals tend to forget that even the Lanterne Rouge would leave us standing in any terrain.
I read somewhere that only the 4 fastest riders in the Etape would have made the cut on the equivalent TdF stage.
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Forgetting number of wins for a moment, how would Cav do against Cipollini if Cav went back in a time machine and raced Cipo at his best?
I find it remarkable that such relatively small riders, such as Mark Cavendish and Victoria Pendleton, repeatedly outsprint bulging-muscled big powerhouses. I know part of it is down to aerodynamics (and Cav gets into particularly aero position for a sprinter), but what else is itt? How do they physically do it?
I did a marshalling stint at the prologue in London. My duties were to stand next to the T-Mobile pit area all day. Cav may be relatively small but when he warmed up on the turbo he put out more power than any of his team mates. The thing was shaking all over the place.
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Picking up the comment from the telegraph article again
(Cavendish) ..a man about as adept at cycling up mountains as my brother-in-law,
Just shows how little people comprehend about the speed of a Pro cyclist. Cavendish finished in a group of 80 riders, presumably 80 of the most accomplished riders on the planet.
As a cyclist myself I still find it hard to comprehend (because TV doesn't do the gradients or the speeds justice) just how superhuman the Tour cyclists are.
When I'm descending a 1:7 local hill, the wind tearing at my jersey and roaring in my ears, I glance, quickly and nervously, at my trip computer to find I'm travelling about 15km/hr slower than Cavendish manages on the flat.
I heard that Thor Hushovd was clocked at 112km/hr on a descent this week.
I'd love to meet this journalist's brother in law.
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Whether he manages to widen his skill set to become a great climber, time-triallist or barouder remains to be seen.
Top sports(wo)men rarely acquire new skills without compromising the ones they've already got.
A tennis player with a great backhand works on the forehand, improves it, but loses the killer edge on the backhand - etc etc.
(I can't believe I'm contributing to a thread on Cavendish, who I regard as a prize tit.)
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Forgetting number of wins for a moment, how would Cav do against Cipollini if Cav went back in a time machine and raced Cipo at his best?
You can't ignore the stats. I'd have thought the relative number of stage wins answers that question. Cav is regularly beating the likes of Greipel and Farrar, who are no slouches themselves.
Anyone who thinks Cav is a rubbish climber should look at how he compares to Cipo, who always quit the Tour at the first sniff of a gradient.
I find it remarkable that such relatively small riders, such as Mark Cavendish and Victoria Pendleton, repeatedly outsprint bulging-muscled big powerhouses. I know part of it is down to aerodynamics (and Cav gets into particularly aero position for a sprinter), but what else is itt? How do they physically do it?
Power-to-weight ratio?
d.
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Picking up the comment from the telegraph article again
(Cavendish) ..a man about as adept at cycling up mountains as my brother-in-law,
Just shows how little people comprehend about the speed of a Pro cyclist. Cavendish finished in a group of 80 riders, presumably 80 of the most accomplished riders on the planet.
Yep. if the organisers had stuck to the rules they'd've lost the world champion, current and past national champions, the Green Jersey and his likely runner-up and half the stage winners.
As a cyclist myself I still find it hard to comprehend (because TV doesn't do the gradients or the speeds justice) just how superhuman the Tour cyclists are.
When I'm descending a 1:7 local hill, the wind tearing at my jersey and roaring in my ears, I glance, quickly and nervously, at my trip computer to find I'm travelling about 15km/hr slower than Cavendish manages on the flat.
Me too. And as for uphill, even Cav and the Big Lads probably don't use their bottom gear (39x24?) in the interests of making the time cut.
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Yep. if the organisers had stuck to the rules they'd've lost the world champion, current and past national champions, the Green Jersey and his likely runner-up and half the stage winners.
The organisers did stick to the rules. The rules allow them to extend the time limit at their discretion where >20% of the field come in outside the time limit.
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Cav must have better muscles than the bulging powerhouses - but ultimately they are the same - fast twitch fibres. Perhaps his programme is better so as to avoid bulking up too much as that is excess weight?
I think mindset and preparation have a lot to do with his performance too. He is meticulous by his own admission.
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TBH, speed on the flat is determined by power to aerodynamic drag, not weight. Cipo has been quoted as saying that Cav doesn't train properly throughout the winter and that if Cipo followed Cav's off season plan, he'd never have won anything.
To give an idea of power, I've seen the 10 second max power numbers for some of the top guys as being about 2 horsepower!
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I find it somewhat puzzling that Cav, being so slight is such a rubbish climber. He's no heavyweight (the podium girls tower over him) and his power output is not under question.
However, in a recent interview he himself hinted at the reason - his muscles must be heavily weighted towards the fast-twitch type, possibly at the extreme end of the bell-curve.
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Nice blogpost from a former colleague of mine about Cavendish, here (http://www.markpack.org.uk/23239/mark-cavendish-has-achieved-more-in-four-years-than-english-football-team-in-last-forty/?utm_campaign=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter).
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I find it somewhat puzzling that Cav, being so slight is such a rubbish climber. He's no heavyweight (the podium girls tower over him) and his power output is not under question.
However, in a recent interview he himself hinted at the reason - his muscles must be heavily weighted towards the fast-twitch type, possibly at the extreme end of the bell-curve.
To be fair most of the sprinters do the minimum possible to get over the mountains. What's the point of them slogging over an HC climb to come 30th? Let's not forget that Cav has won Milan-San Remo so he can climb quickly when he wants/needs to.
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I think it unlikely that anyone will surpass Merckx, not because I think Merckx is unsurpassable but because the Tour has changed. In Merckx's days the tour had many split stages with very short timetrials in the afternoons that Merckx was also able to win, we don't get that now and I doubt we will during Cavendish's career.
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I find it somewhat puzzling that Cav, being so slight is such a rubbish climber. He's no heavyweight (the podium girls tower over him) and his power output is not under question.
However, in a recent interview he himself hinted at the reason - his muscles must be heavily weighted towards the fast-twitch type, possibly at the extreme end of the bell-curve.
To be fair most of the sprinters do the minimum possible to get over the mountains. What's the point of them slogging over an HC climb to come 30th? Let's not forget that Cav has won Milan-San Remo so he can climb quickly when he wants/needs to.
I've just been looking at the course for the World Championship in Copenhagen in September, which Cav has stated is his next target. The final 1km or so is along a dead straight road with a bit of a gradient. OK, so it only gains about 20m but it's enough of a climb to make it interesting. Not unlike last year's finish, but a longer finishing straight and a longer climb.
The 14km finishing circuit has a couple of small bumps in it too.
Can Cav do it? Hard to say, but I'm not sure I'd bet against him.
d.
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Can we nail one myth. Cav is *NOT* a rubbish climber. He is not one of the better climbers in the peloton but he is far from poor. It is just the company he keeps who make him look sub par. Sub 45 mins on the Alpe de Huez is *not* bad climbing.
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There was (at least) one day this week when Cav only just made it within the maximum time allowed. I'm not concluding anything from that, apart from it being consistent with a relatively rubbish climber.
EDIT: This is irrelevant. Please ignore.
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There was (at least) one day this week when Cav only just made it within the maximum time allowed. I'm not concluding anything from that, apart from it being consistent with a relatively rubbish climber.
There was two days when he didn't.The time cut off is calculated as 120% of the winners time so if the winner goes very fast it gives less time for the others to make it back. Not really a good indicator of a riders ability since those in autobus try to predict the winners time, then calculate their cutoff and try to ride accordingly to meet the cut off. They usually get it right bu they know that the organisers will not eliminate 50% of the race, even before the current regs. were introduced (the points deduction). In past times they'd simple extend the cutoff.
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Can we nail one myth. Cav is *NOT* a rubbish climber. He is not one of the better climbers in the peloton but he is far from poor. It is just the company he keeps who make him look sub par. Sub 45 mins on the Alpe de Huez is *not* bad climbing.
I didn't say he was a rubbish climber compared to you and me David! I was just noticing that at 1.75m and 69kg he's not that far off the build of a good climber - by pro rider standards.
BTW the cutoff time is more complicated than that - it varies from day to day and the average speed of the winner. The driver of the autobus needs to be adept at mental arithmetic.
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There was (at least) one day this week when Cav only just made it within the maximum time allowed. I'm not concluding anything from that, apart from it being consistent with a relatively rubbish climber.
That's meaningless.
He deliberately rode the mountain stages as slowly as he could get away with because there's a negative side to riding them any faster.
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The driver of the autobus needs to be adept at mental arithmetic.
Won't he get help from someone in a team car with a computer?
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There was (at least) one day this week when Cav only just made it within the maximum time allowed. I'm not concluding anything from that, apart from it being consistent with a relatively rubbish climber.
That's meaningless.
He deliberately rode the mountain stages as slowly as he could get away with because there's a negative side to riding them any faster.
You're quite right. Sorry I didn't think it through. Obviously I'm not a proper sports fan.
Bit risky to cut it fine, though, isn't it?
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The driver of the autobus needs to be adept at mental arithmetic.
Won't he get help from someone in a team car with a computer?
I suspect the computer is calculating the cut off dynamically based on the leaders projected finish time. It's probably why the judges don't have room of error now, the riders have no excuse for being late other than being too slow !
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There was (at least) one day this week when Cav only just made it within the maximum time allowed. I'm not concluding anything from that, apart from it being consistent with a relatively rubbish climber.
That's meaningless.
He deliberately rode the mountain stages as slowly as he could get away with because there's a negative side to riding them any faster.
You're quite right. Sorry I didn't think it through. Obviously I'm not a proper sports fan.
Bit risky to cut it fine, though, isn't it?
They know that more than 20% of the competitors will not be eliminated so for most riders it's not risky if the group is big enough. Being out of time carries a 20 point penality though which is only meaningful if you are contesting the points jersey.
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It depends on the winner's average speed, so it's only determined after he crosses the line - at which point the autobus may be 25 minutes down the road. Obviously they'll be radioed the result and the implications, and I suppose they must have an idea whether the pace has been ok or frantic that day - at least up until the last climb.
But as LEE says - the sprinters play a game of brinkmanship based on saving their energy for the next flat day, and often rely on the "there's 70 of us in this group, they can't send all of us home" argument.
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They know that more than 20% of the competitors will not be eliminated so for most riders it's not risky if the group is big enough. Being out of time carries a 20 point penality though which is only meaningful if you are contesting the points jersey.
Veering off topic, but I thought this a bit harsh. Is there a similar way to loose 20 KOM points on the flat?
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They know that more than 20% of the competitors will not be eliminated so for most riders it's not risky if the group is big enough. Being out of time carries a 20 point penality though which is only meaningful if you are contesting the points jersey.
Veering off topic, but I thought this a bit harsh. Is there a similar way to loose 20 KOM points on the flat?
There is logic to it as it is the green jersey contenders who consistently flirt with the cut-off time. The similar situation just doesn't occur on flat stages.
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It does seem a bit perverse - if you don't make an effort on GC you should be penalised on GC - not the points competition. But yes - it's the green jersey boys who try and get away with it.
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It depends on the winner's average speed, so it's only determined after he crosses the line - at which point the autobus may be 25 minutes down the road. Obviously they'll be radioed the result and the implications, and I suppose they must have an idea whether the pace has been ok or frantic that day - at least up until the last climb.
I suppose there also comes a point where if the front runners have put a spurt in to break away or try and win the stage, then the average speed needed for the "bus" to get home in time jumps massively over such a short distance left to make it impossible (or at least without blowing up).
Team car: "It's ok Cav don't worry you'll piss it, at current estimate the front runners will finish in 10 minutes, giving you an average of just XXkph to make the cut off"
Team car 9 minutes later: "Shit, they've gone for it and now you have to double your average for the last 5k to make the cut off"
Cav: "fuck off"
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Well put Doosh :thumbsup: ;D
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No the DS in the car should have all that factored in
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How can he predict who will make a break towards the end and how fast it will be?
What happens if he predicts a fast finish and tells Cav (or someone like him) to up his effort to make the time, then the break doesn't come and Cav/Joe Sprinter is unduly bollocksed for the next days sprint?
I think they can only predict so much, the rest they have to leave to chance.
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They know what coefficient will be used for each stage (see the main TdF thread), so as soon as the winner has crossed the line, the DS can work out the exact cutoff time to the second. Presumably it's then trivial to relay that info to the riders and tell them to go faster/slower accordingly.
d.
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But as LEE says - the sprinters play a game of brinkmanship based on saving their energy for the next flat day, and often rely on the "there's 70 of us in this group, they can't send all of us home" argument.
Interestingly, Cav himself didn't appear to be on the limit on Friday's stage - not judging by the way he sprinted for the line - and Thor was in that group too, even though he'd been climbing respectably well.
I'm sure they made every effort to get home inside the time limit though - no way would Cav have been content to lose those points.
d.
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They know what coefficient will be used for each stage (see the main TdF thread), so as soon as the winner has crossed the line, the DS can work out the exact cutoff time to the second. Presumably it's then trivial to relay that info to the riders and tell them to go faster/slower accordingly.
d.
Yes, but that goes back to my original point. If the finishing time is quicker than anticipated, and the average speed needed to make the cut off isn't realistic over such a short distance left to the finish, then they're not going to make the effort are they? To significantly increase your average speed over a short distance requires a big effort, it would be simple if they knew at the start, but if your speed needs to increase between short amount of time of the stage winner crossing the line and your current point on the road, then it's too much effort to make it worthwhile.
Also, doesn't the coefficient alter not only on the stage but the actual average speed of the stage winner? So that leaves even more room for cocking it up.
Edit: Just spotted your last reply- I didn't think anyone in the bus sprinted for the line on Friday, didn't Magnus Backstedt even comment on it? something like "I'm surprised they didn't make an effort to sprint for the line considering they were only 20 odd seconds short of the cut off"
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I think in general the coefficient increases with stage length, so they all knew that Friday's stage would be close, whatever the winner's average speed - the "non-climbers" were all worried about this.
They didn't sprint on Friday because they knew the organisers couldn't kick all of them out (what was it - 60-70 riders?) Also, Rojas was in the group, so any points deductions would affect all the main contenders equally.
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To significantly increase your average speed over a short distance requires a big effort, it would be simple if they knew at the start, but if your speed needs to increase between short amount of time of the stage winner crossing the line and your current point on the road, then it's too much effort to make it worthwhile.
This is all supposition and guesswork on my part, I admit I don't know how it actually works in practice, but it seems obvious to me that they must have a reasonable idea in advance of when the winner is going to finish to be able to come in so close to the cutoff time.
Also, doesn't the coefficient alter not only on the stage but the actual average speed of the stage winner? So that leaves even more room for cocking it up.
Yeah, it goes up by 1% for every kilometre per hour faster the winner rides. For Friday's stage, that means they would have had around 4 minutes less time to reach the finish if the winner had got there 1km/h faster than expected. On Thursday, if the winner had been 1km/h faster than expected, it would have reduced the cutoff time by around 9 minutes.
Given that they were only 17 seconds outside the cutoff on Friday, and a bit over two minutes outside the cutoff on Thursday, I'd say it looks like they had a pretty good idea what time the winner was expected in. Those are tiny margins in the context of the length of the race each day.
Like I say, it's only supposition and guesswork, but this is what the figures suggest to me. And I don't know how feasible it would be for a lone rider or a small breakaway group to ride 1km/h faster than expected over a mountain stage, but surely it would take a significant amount of extra effort on their part? I know the peloton sometimes ride that much faster than expected on flat stages, but that's a whole different ball game.
Edit: Just spotted your last reply- I didn't think anyone in the bus sprinted for the line on Friday, didn't Magnus Backstedt even comment on it? something like "I'm surprised they didn't make an effort to sprint for the line considering they were only 20 odd seconds short of the cut off"
Well, maybe "sprinting" is too strong a word for it but it looked to me watching it on telly like Cav was at the front of the pack and among those pushing hard to get to the line as quick as possible. But I bow to Maggie's superior knowledge and understanding of these things.
d.
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I think in general the coefficient increases with stage length
In the case of mountain stages, the opposite is true. Thursday's ~200km stage had a +6% cutoff based on a winning time of 30km/h, while Friday's ~100km stage had a +9% cutoff.
As per previous post, the cutoff increases by 1% for every 1km/h faster the winner rides (Rolland rode a shade under 34km/h on Friday so they were given a +12% cutoff).
d.
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You can't ignore the stats. I'd have thought the relative number of stage wins answers that question. Cav is regularly beating the likes of Greipel and Farrar, who are no slouches themselves.
Of course, if you take the stats into account, I suppose you have to consider Cipo's 42 wins in the Giro, a race that he did complete several times, hills and all.
And he was beating the likes of Robbie McEwen in his prime...
It all becomes a bit less clear-cut when you stop to actually think about it carefully...
d.
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I've just been looking at the course for the World Championship in Copenhagen in September, which Cav has stated is his next target. The final 1km or so is along a dead straight road with a bit of a gradient. OK, so it only gains about 20m but it's enough of a climb to make it interesting. Not unlike last year's finish, but a longer finishing straight and a longer climb.
The 14km finishing circuit has a couple of small bumps in it too.
Can Cav do it? Hard to say, but I'm not sure I'd bet against him.
d.
The course profile is nothing to worry about - British Cycling have had this one pencilled-in for Cav since it was announced. The big worry will be whether GB have a big enough team to control the race because if everyone knows it's a course that suits Cav, every other team will not want a "bunchy" at the end.
Anyway I'll be in Copenhagen cheering him on so he'd better boody do it! ;D
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The driver of the autobus needs to be adept at mental arithmetic.
Won't he get help from someone in a team car with a computer?
They've been successfully beating the cut for years, since before there were computers and team radios. The autobus needs someone good at arithmetic to lead it.
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A large photo of Cav is on the front page of today's Daily Telegraph. Good to see a British cyclist getting that big into mainstream media.
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Changing tack somewhat ...
Just watched the fluff before Sunday's stage. Didn't Peta Todd come across well in the trackside interview?
I found her comments - about Cav's nerves, and being proud of him struggling over the Alpine stages - really touching.
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I like David Millar's comments (from what I remember)
Interviewer "I suppose if he were French, Spanish or Italian he'd be like David Beckam"
Millar "He is like David Beckham in France, Spain and Italy, just not in Britain"
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The course profile is nothing to worry about - British Cycling have had this one pencilled-in for Cav since it was announced. The big worry will be whether GB have a big enough team to control the race because if everyone knows it's a course that suits Cav, every other team will not want a "bunchy" at the end.
Sounds promising. And he seems pretty focussed on it judging by his post-race interview yesterday... GB get six places, don't they? If they can control the race, Wiggo and Thomas should make pretty good leadout men. Who else are they likely to take? Kennaugh, Swift & Downing?
d.
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The course profile is nothing to worry about - British Cycling have had this one pencilled-in for Cav since it was announced. The big worry will be whether GB have a big enough team to control the race because if everyone knows it's a course that suits Cav, every other team will not want a "bunchy" at the end.
Sounds promising. And he seems pretty focussed on it judging by his post-race interview yesterday... GB get six places, don't they? If they can control the race, Wiggo and Thomas should make pretty good leadout men. Who else are they likely to take? Kennaugh, Swift & Downing?
d.
If GB are ranked in the UCI top ten they get 10 places. The rankings will be updated soon but as of June they were 9th.
Wiggins and either Millar or Dowsett will also be riding the TT. Not sure if Dowsett still qualifies for the U23 event.
Cav, Thomas, Stannard, Swift, Downing, Millar, Wiggins, and Hunt for sure. Then there's Blythe from Omega Pharma - a sprinter who could form part of the lead-out, Hammond and Lloyd from Garmin-Cervelo - very experienced guys who can ride all day. Maybe Kennaugh too but not sure he's got the power for a flatt-ish course. They'll need big powerful riders to stop breakaways getting too far ahead while keeping the likes of Wiggins and Thomas for the big lead-out at the end.
They all had a two day get-together before the British Nationals to "bond" and plan for the race. They don't want anyone else "doing a Wegelius".
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If GB are ranked in the UCI top ten they get 10 places. The rankings will be updated soon but as of June they were 9th.
Excellent. I didn't realise they'd climbed that high in the rankings.
Cav, Thomas, Stannard, Swift, Downing, Millar, Wiggins, and Hunt for sure.
Can't believe I forgot about Millar. He'll be handy in the Tony Martin-type role.
Looks like they've got the makings of a good, strong team. :thumbsup:
d.
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If GB are ranked in the UCI top ten they get 10 places. The rankings will be updated soon but as of June they were 9th.
Excellent. I didn't realise they'd climbed that high in the rankings.
Cav's 5 stage wins at the Tour should keep them up there too.
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Changing tack somewhat ...
Just watched the fluff before Sunday's stage. Didn't Peta Todd come across well in the trackside interview?
I found her comments - about Cav's nerves, and being proud of him struggling over the Alpine stages - really touching.
She seemed very sensible and knowledgeable. cf football WAGs.
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In my job, I meet a lot of women in her line of work and it's always been obvious that she's very intelligent, and a thoroughly decent person with it. I mean, most of them are charming young ladies but she's got more brain cells than most of the rest of them put together. Plus she was keen on cycling even before she met Cav - that alone should show that she's a cut above the average WAG material.
d.
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I like David Millar's comments (from what I remember)
Interviewer "I suppose if he were French, Spanish or Italian he'd be like David Beckam"
Millar "He is like David Beckham in France, Spain and Italy, just not in Britain"
that neatly sums up the apathy this country(& it's media) have towards the sport
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Yes, but this country and its media is slowly coming round. The sport of cycling and its cyclists gets mentioned on television more than than it did some years ago, and as I mentioned above, "the green giant" is on the front page of today's Daily Telegraph.
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I like David Millar's comments (from what I remember)
Interviewer "I suppose if he were French, Spanish or Italian he'd be like David Beckam"
Millar "He is like David Beckham in France, Spain and Italy, just not in Britain"
that neatly sums up the apathy this country(& it's media) have towards the sport
It's coz cycling is for plebs who can't afford cars, innit.
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Yes, but this country and its media is slowly coming round. The sport of cycling and its cyclists gets mentioned on television more than than it did some years ago, and as I mentioned above, "the green giant" is on the front page of today's Daily Telegraph.
It's great that the Telegraph are getting behind him.
Unfortunately, the front of the Guardian sports section is more typical - it has Cav and Amir Khan below the fold, with Lewis Hamilton and Matt Prior above. FFS, Hamilton won one poxy race (after being a bit shit all season), and the England cricket team haven't even finished their current match yet, never mind winning it (haven't seen the current score but I'm predicting it'll end in a draw).
d.
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As for the campaign to get Cav voted Sports Personality of the Year, I know it's doomed to fail cos a couple of lovable Irish rogues with golf bats have each won a competition that only requires them to perform for four days over the same course, as opposed to 21 days over a different course each day.
Frankly, I've never much cared for the Sports Personality of the Year competition, largely because most of its winners have had very little in the way of personality. But Cav is both supremely excellent at his sport and has oodles of personality. So even though I don't care about the competition, I'm wracked with a sense of injustice that he won't get a look in. >:(
I know, let's give it to some footballing charisma vacuum who later turns out to be a philandering Welsh arsehole.
d.
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You never know, the cyclists' lobby might be bigger than the golfists'.
I think the term Sports Personality was coined back in the day when "personality" was used to mean "celebrity". The sports person isn't required to have any particular outgoing personality, really.
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You never know, the cyclists' lobby might be bigger than the golfists'.
Don't know about that, but fingers crossed the golfing vote might be split, especially since there are two Nornirish candidates.
d.
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The sports person isn't required to have any particular outgoing personality, really.
As demonstrated when a snooker table narrowly lost to Nigel Mansell in 1992 ;)
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a couple of lovable Irish rogues with golf bats have each won a competition that only requires them to perform for four days over the same course
You call that "performing"?
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I am struggling to think of a sport that requires so much effort on the part of the participant.
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I am struggling to think of a sport that requires so much effort on the part of the participant.
I don't think there is one - perhaps until venturing into whacky extreme alternative stuff. Quadruple Iron Man?
But the amount of total physical effort need not have anything to do with Sports Personality of the Year. Give it to a dartist. :demon:
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The course profile is nothing to worry about - British Cycling have had this one pencilled-in for Cav since it was announced. The big worry will be whether GB have a big enough team to control the race because if everyone knows it's a course that suits Cav, every other team will not want a "bunchy" at the end.
Sounds promising. And he seems pretty focussed on it judging by his post-race interview yesterday... GB get six places, don't they? If they can control the race, Wiggo and Thomas should make pretty good leadout men. Who else are they likely to take? Kennaugh, Swift & Downing?
d.
If GB are ranked in the UCI top ten they get 10 places. The rankings will be updated soon but as of June they were 9th.
Wiggins and either Millar or Dowsett will also be riding the TT. Not sure if Dowsett still qualifies for the U23 event.
Cav, Thomas, Stannard, Swift, Downing, Millar, Wiggins, and Hunt for sure. Then there's Blythe from Omega Pharma - a sprinter who could form part of the lead-out, Hammond and Lloyd from Garmin-Cervelo - very experienced guys who can ride all day. Maybe Kennaugh too but not sure he's got the power for a flatt-ish course. They'll need big powerful riders to stop breakaways getting too far ahead while keeping the likes of Wiggins and Thomas for the big lead-out at the end.
They all had a two day get-together before the British Nationals to "bond" and plan for the race. They don't want anyone else "doing a Wegelius".
I don't think it's quite as simple as that. I'm pretty sure that, as well as needing to finish in the top 10, it also depends on how many individual riders from any given country have scored points in World Tour races, and I have a feeling GB will need something like 9 riders to score in order to qualify a full team of 9 riders. From memory, Thomas, Wiggins, Cav, Swift & Millar have all scored WT points, but can't think of anyone else. Looks like Messrs Blythe, Stannard, Hammond & Co will need to pull their collective fingers out...
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mattslater/2011/07/mark_cavendish_is_david_beckha.html
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Some of those comments on that article are depressingly retarded, little wonder it's a minority sport over here...
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Watching his quick chat with Chris Boardman after the Champs-Elysées win - in the background you see young fans absolutely beaming. One ( with the yellow lanyard around his neck ) actually reaches out to touch Cav - in awe. That was nice to see - the joy he can bring others from what he does and enjoys doing, again and again.
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Some of those comments on that article are depressingly retarded, little wonder it's a minority sport over here...
At least they're arguing about sport (even though half of them haven't a clue) rather than posting anti-cyclist rants.
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I am struggling to think of a sport that requires so much effort on the part of the participant.
I don't think there is one - perhaps until venturing into whacky extreme alternative stuff. Quadruple Iron Man?
But the amount of total physical effort need not have anything to do with Sports Personality of the Year. Give it to a dartist. :demon:
There is ALWAYS someone nuttier out there:
http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35410
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There's a lot of comparing apples with oranges in the comments on that BBC blog, but it got me thinking. If you want to put it in terms that the average British lay punter could understand, then team HTC are Barcelona and Cav is Lionel Messi.
I've definitely noticed a shift in the popularity and general awareness of pro road cycling this year - even my mum has been watching coverage of the Tour and getting excited about it. Maybe there is a chance that Cav could win SPOTY.
d.
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Thomas, Millar, Swift, Wiggins - what more support do you need - Wiggins to get in the break away. Millar to put the hammer down when needed. Swift to look after his man, and Thomas to lead out. Especially as the Italians have decided that it suits a rouleur rather than a sprinter.
Cav will need to win the World's to have a chance on SPOTY, especially how well (my original sporting love) the England Cricket Team are going at the moment.
But - if you can cast your mind back 5 years - and remember watching sprints out of academic rather than patriotic interest.....?
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You never know, the cyclists' lobby might be bigger than the golfists'.
Don't know about that, but fingers crossed the golfing vote might be split, especially since there are two Nornirish candidates.
d.
I can remember a cyclist winning SPOTY. ::-)
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I suspect Engerland's exploits in the Crikkit have put paid to any slim hopes Cav had of repeating that feat.
d.
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Funny mirror, or exceptionally small body in relation to 'ead?
http://yfrog.com/nzc5avj