Internal vs external cam QR

[mrcharly-YHT]

While fettling the Ribble's wheel, I found that the QR cam was gunged up inside (Deore LX).  I could open it, but even copious applications of oil and lots of wiggling would allow me to 'close' the lever.

Fortunately, I had a cheap no-brand skewer in the box - this is an external cam.

For the life of me I can't understand why the 'better' quality skewers are internal cam. External ones are always going the cleanable. Why are internal considered better?

I've read the sheldon brown article on this - he frowns them because they can't be kept as clean and lubricated.

Well, I know the man is a saint, but he obviously didn't have yorkshire weather to contend with.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Classic QRs clamp better and I've always been able to dismantle and clean them.

[Kim]

I've no idea, but agree that internal cam are far better at clamping.  I'm not entirely sure why?

[Efrogwr]

The clamping pressure will be higher with the smaller (internal) cam. Therefore the skewer can exert greater pressure on the dropouts, holding the wheel more securely.

External cam quick releases often have a plastic insert for the cam to bear on. This can deform slightly, reducing the pressure, and, therefore the tension in the skewer.

Old Campagnolo Q/Rs could be dismantled.

[Tim Hall]

I've no idea, but agree that internal cam are far better at clamping.  I'm not entirely sure why?

AUSHTA

[henshaw11]

It depends on the geometry as much as anything I'd have thought - and you can make allowance for any compression in the nylon bearing, subject to it being harder to close

Of the few external cam jobbies I have they do seem harder to close, but that may be related to being ally and brass/nylon for the cam and bearing material respectively, plus having larger bearing surfaces <edit - as in that SB link>. Or me just being more paranoid. The external jobbies do show some wear on the cam after a while, but you can adjust that out anyway.

Shimano QRs have a circlip you can remove to clean them - tho' the don't seem to suffer much from crud buildup anyway

Alledgedly (related to a mention in the SB link) Shimano skewers are less prone to coming loose in relation to disk brakes and normal (downward) facing dropouts.

[TimO]

Hmm, I've never had a skewer gung up to the extent that I can't open or close it, either internal or external cam, and I've never had one come loose either.

Maybe I've just been lucky.  My definition of closing it hard enough, is that the lever should leave a brief imprint on your palm when you close it.  I also tend to lightly grease all the moving parts of a skewer when I assemble a bike, but that shouldn't make a dramatic difference.

External cam skewers do tend to have more plastic in them, possibly reflecting them being more common at the cheaper end of the market.  Plastic in this sort of scenario probably doesn't work as well.

[henshaw11]

When the whole disk/qr loosening thing was around some years ago, there seemed to be a fair bit of anecdotal evidence along the lines of 'well, I was pretty sure my QR was tight but found it undone' (on STW at least). I've had it happen *once*, but it was about the same time and I've been bloomin' careful since - one guy in the UK wound up in a wheelchairs as a result of a fork/QR problem,  mentioned here:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/diary.html

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/admission.html

(via http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/ )

I have managed to knacker a QR once - but that was a seat QR replacing the bolt up version on my P7 - IMO Orange were reaming the seatposts oversize and the shims weren't big enough (I've fitted a larger one since but stuck with the bolt-up clamp - but you can see how much the seat-tube slot's been closed up at the top end). I was using so much force on the QR to stop it slipping that the plastic/nylon bearing eventually split

[Biggsy]

I bypass the quandary altogether by using wind-up skewers - allen key or pentagon key jobs.  They're lighter, there's no cam to worry about, and they provide a little bit of security as well.  I'm not racing so don't need (even) quicker.

[MacB]

I bypass the quandary altogether by using wind-up skewers - allen key or pentagon key jobs.  They're lighter, there's no cam to worry about, and they provide a little bit of security as well.  I'm not racing so don't need (even) quicker.

which type do you use, I keep thinking about them but then find a horror story about lost security fittings or damaged bolt heads.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I bypass the quandary altogether by using wind-up skewers

What is the purpose or advantage of those - I mean, why not just have a normal axle with Allen bolts or nuts, if it's no longer quick release?

[Biggsy]

which type do you use, I keep thinking about them but then find a horror story about lost security fittings or damaged bolt heads.

Mostly Tranz X via eBay.  There are both ordinary allen key and pentagon key versions.  I've been using them for quite a few years with absolutely no problems.  The bolt heads are strong and chunky.  You won't lose any special key if you put it on your key ring with your front door keys.  There are other ways of undoing them anyway in an emergency.  The amount of security is small, but I just prefer them to cam-QRs now anyway.

Avoid the very lightest and thinnest titanium ones if you want decent clamping.

[Biggsy]

I bypass the quandary altogether by using wind-up skewers

What is the purpose or advantage of those - I mean, why not just have a normal axle with Allen bolts or nuts, if it's no longer quick release?

They're pretty-quick release, and I can use nice modern light hubs of my choice, such as Campag Chorus.  I'd only need to save the few extra seconds it takes to use them if I was racing.

[giropaul]

I find the external cam skewers aren't tight enough for a horizontal dropout, especially a chromed one.

The prevailance of the external ones (which can be lighter etc) seems to mirror the almost total swapover to vertical dropouts on most quality frames.

I'm guessing part of this is the US liability situation (which saw Campag and others having to write "open" and "closed" on qr levers). Vertical dropouts are less likely to have problems for less experienced users.

[mrcharly-YHT]

It must be the roads up here. I put new tyres on wed night; one commute and they are covered in crap, absolutely caked. I even get stainless spokes rusting