Author Topic: Wheel builder recommendations  (Read 4976 times)

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #25 on: 12 January, 2021, 10:21:11 am »
General question, not strictly related to the OP, so apologies.

Whilst I've been on my bike for a while I've only just started to dabble in wheels.

I see the term 'factory built wheels' all the time, but I have no idea what they are, how to recognise them, what's different about them as compared to hand built wheels, other than the obvious (made in a factory, but even that is pretty nebulous).

Anyone ?

Many thanks.
Rust never sleeps

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #26 on: 12 January, 2021, 10:23:37 am »
When I use the term 'factory wheels' I am refering to wheels with non-proprietory parts, so for example specific hub/spoke combinations, non-standard spokes.

I don't really mean things like Hunt wheels, which are just off the shelf budget chinese/taiwanese hubs and rims, laced up with standard spokes.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #27 on: 12 January, 2021, 10:29:16 am »
General question, not strictly related to the OP, so apologies.

Whilst I've been on my bike for a while I've only just started to dabble in wheels.

I see the term 'factory built wheels' all the time, but I have no idea what they are, how to recognise them, what's different about them as compared to hand built wheels, other than the obvious (made in a factory, but even that is pretty nebulous).

Anyone ?

Many thanks.
Mavic Ksyriums are probably the best known, but all the big manufacturers do them and have done for decades.  Some swear by them, others swear at them.  They do get around the problem of finding a half decent wheelbuilder.

Flatus' point about them being consumables certainly applies to Ksyriums: the alu spokes tend to permanently corrode into the aluminium rim, so repairs are difficult.  And the freehub "bearing" is a nylon bushing which develops the "Mavic howl" after a while (it's actually more like a cow mooing).  Oiling it shuts it up for a while.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #28 on: 12 January, 2021, 01:17:43 pm »
I see the term 'factory built wheels' all the time, but I have no idea what they are, how to recognise them, what's different about them as compared to hand built wheels, other than the obvious (made in a factory, but even that is pretty nebulous).
I'm not sure there's a formal definition, and there are probably grey areas over which wheels are which - I've got some old Tecno ones that are pretty borderline. But, in general terms, traditional wheels are built up from hubs, spokes and rims that may be sourced separately, from different manufacturers, and are quite interchangeable. The actual building may, of course, vary from hand-built by a specialist such as those mentioned here, to mass production in a factory.

"Factory" wheels still usually have hubs, spokes and rims. However, they are designed as single entities, so that the rims and spokes are typically made just for that particular wheel or range of wheels. They may use very small numbers of spokes (perhaps 16, where hand-built wheels are considered ultra-light at 24), and unique lacing patterns. If a spoke breaks, then in many cases (but not all), you're not necessarily just intended to replace it. It may be a case of return to the factory for repair, or replace the wheel. Spokes may screw into the hub or use other proprietary fitting methods, whereas traditional wheels have spokes with bends and heads, that fit into standard drilled holes in the hub flanges.

Factory wheels tend to be lighter than traditional ones, but may not be as durable, nor (see above) as easy to maintain. They can, in some cases, also be phenomenally expensive. So you takes your choice.

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #29 on: 12 January, 2021, 01:37:23 pm »
Thanks all. drossall's explanation clears this up for me.
Rust never sleeps

Geriatricdolan

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #30 on: 12 January, 2021, 01:44:54 pm »
Thanks all. drossall's explanation clears this up for me.

Yes, very clear...

In a nutshell, it is off the shelf generic components that can be mixed and matched, versus proprietary components that can only be used for that specific wheel, of that specific manufacturer and often even of that specific year.
Inevitably, as old stock is cleared and new stock is different, spare parts for older factory wheels become rare as hen's teeth, assuming they existed in the first place.
Occasionally, they can be replaced by generic parts, but it's becoming increasingly difficult and it often require some adaptations.

Personally, I enjoy tinkering with broken factory wheels and finding ways to fix them, but it's difficult to do so commercially, not knowing whether the fix will hold or will kill the customer...  :o

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #31 on: 12 January, 2021, 06:08:57 pm »
spare parts for older factory wheels become rare as hen's teeth, assuming they existed in the first place.


 I suspect my Racing Zero Red Passion wheels are very much in this category! They're very pretty, and they currently sit in my TT frame as 'training wheels'. As I've ridden that bike a grand total of 30km, and I'm unlikely to resurrect my nascent TT career, they'll probably survive long enough to become a worthwhile museum exhibit! ;D

Geriatricdolan

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #32 on: 13 January, 2021, 01:47:24 pm »
spare parts for older factory wheels become rare as hen's teeth, assuming they existed in the first place.


 I suspect my Racing Zero Red Passion wheels are very much in this category! They're very pretty, and they currently sit in my TT frame as 'training wheels'. As I've ridden that bike a grand total of 30km, and I'm unlikely to resurrect my nascent TT career, they'll probably survive long enough to become a worthwhile museum exhibit! ;D

Last year I was looking for a pair of second hand Zero as light wheels for hill climb racing... couldn't get my hands on any, so I ended up building myself a pair of lightweights... spent around 240 pounds in components... 1300 g , not bad for clinchers

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #33 on: 13 January, 2021, 01:58:30 pm »
spare parts for older factory wheels become rare as hen's teeth, assuming they existed in the first place.


 I suspect my Racing Zero Red Passion wheels are very much in this category! They're very pretty, and they currently sit in my TT frame as 'training wheels'. As I've ridden that bike a grand total of 30km, and I'm unlikely to resurrect my nascent TT career, they'll probably survive long enough to become a worthwhile museum exhibit! ;D

Last year I was looking for a pair of second hand Zero as light wheels for hill climb racing... couldn't get my hands on any, so I ended up building myself a pair of lightweights... spent around 240 pounds in components... 1300 g , not bad for clinchers

That's a lot lighter than Zeros. I think they're nominally about 1485g, but mine (without skewers) are around 1510 - pretty similar to Ksyrium Elites, which were half the price! They do look pretty with the red spokes, and the hubs are incredibly smooth, but by god they're stiff.

Geriatricdolan

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #34 on: 14 January, 2021, 12:16:38 pm »
spare parts for older factory wheels become rare as hen's teeth, assuming they existed in the first place.


 I suspect my Racing Zero Red Passion wheels are very much in this category! They're very pretty, and they currently sit in my TT frame as 'training wheels'. As I've ridden that bike a grand total of 30km, and I'm unlikely to resurrect my nascent TT career, they'll probably survive long enough to become a worthwhile museum exhibit! ;D

Last year I was looking for a pair of second hand Zero as light wheels for hill climb racing... couldn't get my hands on any, so I ended up building myself a pair of lightweights... spent around 240 pounds in components... 1300 g , not bad for clinchers

That's a lot lighter than Zeros. I think they're nominally about 1485g, but mine (without skewers) are around 1510 - pretty similar to Ksyrium Elites, which were half the price! They do look pretty with the red spokes, and the hubs are incredibly smooth, but by god they're stiff.

Yes, I managed to find a pair of non-tubeless 380 g rims... they are not very durable, the brake track is probably just over 1 mm thick, but they will be durable enough for a few seasons of hill climb racing.
Unfortunately, with the advent of tubeless, alloy rims have become wider and heavier and carbon rims are still too expensive to be a viable option for me.
I was looking for a pair of Zero on Ebay, but everything got snatched up at premium prices... people prepared to pay 400 quid for second hand pair of alloy wheels, madness.
On balance, I did spend less, I have wheels that I can repair and they are even lighter... win win

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #35 on: 17 January, 2021, 09:01:45 pm »
Alloy wheels for tubulars are pretty cheap  Kysriums etc as few use tubs, and those that do “ need” carbon
They’re typically a fair bit lighter than the clincher ones as well.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #36 on: 18 January, 2021, 02:21:44 pm »
There's a reason they're cheap - few people can face dealing with tubs.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #37 on: 23 March, 2021, 12:20:41 am »
Closest topic I could find: Years ago (years!) I got pointed to a wheel building e-book, which was written and sold by a reputable (older) wheel builder.
I'm trying to convince one of my friends to build his new wheels, but I cannot remember the name. This is like 12-14 years ago.
In lieu of that, are there any other good wheel building guides?

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #38 on: 23 March, 2021, 01:36:15 am »
Closest topic I could find: Years ago (years!) I got pointed to a wheel building e-book, which was written and sold by a reputable (older) wheel builder.
I'm trying to convince one of my friends to build his new wheels, but I cannot remember the name. This is like 12-14 years ago.
In lieu of that, are there any other good wheel building guides?
Sounds like Wheelpro
https://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php

Re: Wheel builder recommendations
« Reply #39 on: 23 March, 2021, 05:47:17 am »
That looks extremely familiar, thanks!!

Edit: Not just familiar. This enabled me to find the original email recept (from 2006!) and use that to grab the latest edition.