To Bonk or Not to Bonk? That is the question...

[Manotea]

Well, naturally nobody wants a full on bonkarama and thats not want I'm suggesting.

The scenario is you've been out all day working hard with say 2hrs/50km to go. You can feel your energy levels dropping and you're slowing up. The matter can be resolved by reaching for the (choose sugary confectionary of choice) which will send the power of the gods flowing through your body in 10 minutes and send you flying down the road all the way home at Warp Factor 10.

Are there any benefits in simply toughing it out and limping home on 1/4 impulse power?

[border-rider]

No

It'll knacker you good and proper - you won't recover properly, and that's a slippery slope.  It's one thing running without food intake as long as you can, but actually bonking is a Bad Idea.

[hellymedic]

+1 to MV.
Bonk takes a while to resolve and will make you feel disproportionately fatigued, possibly for several days.
It also will not enhance you immune system.
Go for the carbo-fix and enjoy the last couple of hours' riding; you know it makes sense!

[Manotea]

Not suggesting running to point of bonking because that's 'game over'.

The question arises because I haven't been getting my nutrition right this year and I tend to hit energy dips. Riding fixed and being, er, heavier than in previous years I seem to burning carbs more than fats, and these need replenishing on a regular basis. After a while one get tired of eating the same 'empty carbs'.  Yet faced with rolling/hilly terrain there's far less scope for reducing work effort to get into the fat burning zone than on a geared bike. Hence the question of whether is any merit in toughing it out for the last couple of hours.

LEL Orgs take note: I will be asking for 'seconds' at every food stop! (I'm sure Steve Abs will be along in a moment...)

[Ian H]

...faced with rolling/hilly terrain there's far less scope for reducing work effort to get into the fat burning zone than on a geared bike. Hence the question of whether is any merit in toughing it out for the last couple of hours.

One of the things about riding fixed is the reduced opportunity for easing up, particularly in lumpy terrain. A couple of hours sounds to me like a very long time in the circumstances you mention.

[hellymedic]

I should imagine most riders tire of 'empty carbs' at some stage on a long ride. I certainly did.
I started my first 600 (WCW 1994) when I had not fully recovered from some sort of vomiting bug. (I was young and foolish enough to believe DNS was for wimps.)
I lived on junk carbs for the first 400k - the hygiene at Prees deterred me from 'proper food' until I felt I could face it.
I found a nice pizza in Evesham, which hit the spot and went on to complete my SR.
If you don't fancy 'empty carbs' they may not help you much.
I'm a great believer in eating what you fancy/crave at any stage.
Running on empty has never worked for me, but others seem to manage fine.

[Really Ancien]

Anticipation is everything in cycling nutrition, especially Audax. We should know when we are likely to experience glycogen defecit and plan our carbohydrate intake carefully. I favour complex carbohydrates with a element of fat combined with sugars and caffeine for an immediate boost at about 200km, if the conditions are hot I will seek to replace lost salt. I find this is best acheived by ingesting two Jumbo Cornish Pasties, a packet of crisps and drinking half a litre of Coca Cola immediately and filling my bottles with the rest of the 2 litres.

Damon.

[Manotea]

A fair point RR. Whilst I'm commtitted to doing LEL on just one cog, thereafter I'm going to start riding gears as I've some rides in the pipeline for next year which will need several cogs. Meanwhile being off the pace doesn't over concern me, I'm quite happy just getting round. Elsewise things will sort themselves out once I get into a more structured training regime. O-er, did I say training.

[andygates]

At this point the long-distance triathlon types will usually pipe up about riding using fat as fuel instead of carbs, and that to do this, you ride on low fuel to train your metabolism to go to fat at higher intensities of work than an untrained rider can do.

I've no idea how credible that is, but humans are exceptionally adaptable.

My bonky flirtations, though, render me a surly thug angry at the world but too weak to destroy it.  I avoid it like the plague.

[Manotea]

At this point the long-distance triathlon types will usually pipe up about riding using fat as fuel instead of carbs, and that to do this, you ride on low fuel to train your metabolism to go to fat at higher intensities of work than an untrained rider can do.

This involves keeping below the hear rate below the carb burning threshold. Right now that's easier said than done!

[rogerzilla]

I don't get proper bonk unless it's really cold.  In summer I can keep running on fat alone (the only food I ate on the Dun Run was a flapjack at Epping, although I also had a bit of apple juice/water mix in one bottle).

In winter I think the combined requirements of keeping warm and turning the pedals are too much, and (when I first started all this many years ago) I had the odd scenario of:

1. I'm slowing down
2. I can't stop thinking about cake
3. I'm cold
4. I can't get off the biggest sprocket

In those cases Lucozade and a Mars Bar got me home pretty easily - you have to find a shop open at 4pm on a Sunday, though.

[Chris S]

At this point the long-distance triathlon types will usually pipe up about riding using fat as fuel instead of carbs, and that to do this, you ride on low fuel to train your metabolism to go to fat at higher intensities of work than an untrained rider can do.

This involves keeping below the hear rate below the carb burning threshold. Right now that's easier said than done!

The transition from fat burning to glycogen burning is pretty linear until you get near the Red Line.

I'm not a "Triathlon Type" (far from it), but I have trained myself to be able to ride 100km, fully fasted, without bonking. This works quite well in East Anglia, less so west of the meridian.

[Manotea]

At this point the long-distance triathlon types will usually pipe up about riding using fat as fuel instead of carbs, and that to do this, you ride on low fuel to train your metabolism to go to fat at higher intensities of work than an untrained rider can do.

This involves keeping below the hear rate below the carb burning threshold. Right now that's easier said than done!

The transition from fat burning to glycogen burning is pretty linear until you get near the Red Line.

I'm not a "Triathlon Type" (far from it), but I have trained myself to be able to ride 100km, fully fasted, without bonking. This works quite well in East Anglia, less so west of the meridian.

Yep, its the 'ills that do the damage (and its not the first 100km that's the problem!)

[Euan Uzami]

Can i admit to something - i've felt a bonk coming on while playing squash before and almost actually enjoyed it, does that make me a perv?

[LEE]

Can i admit to something - i've felt a bonk coming on while playing squash before and almost actually enjoyed it, does that make me a perv?

If you bonk whilst playing squash then, presumably, you aren't more than 100 feet from your car and an easy trip home.  Bonking 50km from home whilst cycling can be a world of grim.

[fred the great]

Can you actually train yourself not to bonk?

[border-rider]

Kind of.

You can train yourself to become adept at "listening" to what your body is doing and to judge reasonably accurately what is a sustainable/fat-burning pace.  And you can definitely train your fat-burning abilities to contribute more at higher power outputs.   what you can't do, of course, is to train yourself to avoid bonking if you deplete your carbohydrate reserves - just delay the onset of that.

[mike]

Can you actually train yourself not to bonk?

getting married did it for me*

IGMC.




*  someone normal might read this thread.

[Chris S]

It would seem my body gives me some early warning signs that I need to eat; almost on a timed scale:

20 mins to bonk: My toes start to go numb. In winter - they go cold first.
10 mins to bonk: I'll suddenly get hunger pangs. I know I've left it too late now.
5 mins to bonk: I stop feeling hungry and start feeling sick instead.
Bonk: All power disappears; granny ring required for any incline >4%. I get light headed and the shakes.

50km is too far from home to ignore it. I've had to stop and eat in the last 15km of a ride - knowing I'd probably fall off into the hedge before the end (Upper Thames 200 which contains a climb in the last 10km). I might be able to get away with ignoring the warning signs if they start when I'm still 10km out - but not 50km.

To my mind, you can't ignore it, anymore than you can ignore running your car out of petrol.

[rae]

You can ride through it and not hit the sugar, but you have to pick up the fact that you are stuffed a long time before the bonk.  If you are close, then every effort you make above what your body can sustain on fat depletes you further - and you don't generally get up hills on fat power.  On the flat, you can tick along at a nice pace (15+ mph) on fat, but as soon as you hit an incline, you'll be toast.   

My first sign is reduced power - if I back off then, I can go on for ages.   If I don't back off, then I get the light headedness, all the way through to tunnel vision.   Being cold makes it much worse.

The only reason I'd not hit the sugar would be if I was deliberately riding long distances (slowly) with the sole intention of burning fat.

[Bigsybaby]

During times of difficulty I like to reach to my back pocket where I have a big bag of Sherbert Lemons, I dont know whether they are good for me but I find sucking them rather jolly. It also entertains me sucking them in different ways on long straight roads

[mike]

that's genius - I read something about the presence of carbohydrate tricks your brane into letting your body work harder than it would normally, so (apparently) time triallists keep a boiled sweetie in their cheek while they're riding.

I would try and find a link but the pub opens in 5 minutes......

[inc]

The scenario is you've been out all day working hard with say 2hrs/50km to go. You can feel your energy levels dropping and you're slowing up. The matter can be resolved by reaching for the (choose sugary confectionary of choice)

If this is training for the LEL would it not be more useful to develop your feeding so you are not bonking with 2 hours to go. Depending on your pace you could either ride at an effort that lets you complete the ride without the negative effects of sugar maybe using a weak matadextrine drink or a faster ride with a stronger mix.  The longer rides without sugar will help your body adapt to mobilising fat stores as energy. Whatever method you use for the ride eating a carbohydrate rich meal within 20 minutes of finishing is the best time to replenish your glycogen stores.

[Jonno]

Can i admit to something - i've felt a bonk coming on while playing squash before and almost actually enjoyed it, does that make me a perv?

No way. The first time I went sailing in the sea, I had the same. I'm no Ellen Macarthur, but you enjoy what you enjoy.

[Hummers]

I will run out of steam around the 80-160k mark for the first 4 months of the year but have accepted this and just keep taking on carbs and manage to ride through it on impulse power.

Then, some time around May, something changes and I don't bonk any more.

H