Liggett and Sherwinisms TdF 2012

[teethgrinder]

I'm just pathetically grateful that we get any cycling coverage at all on free "mainstream" telly and will put up with the inanities without so much as a wince.

Precisely this.

I'd go further and say I actually like the Liggett and Sherwin commentary and I like the Boardman info about each stage as he rides/walks the finish.

I don't like any adverts, that's why I start watching 20 minutes after the start and use my PVR to jump through them.

Hats off to ITV4 for covering it live and for the extended highlights show.

Same here. It's a big highlight of my day watching the tour on i-player.
I think that what they do is a very hard thing to do and I'm not surprised they get tongue twisted and mess things up now and then. I know I couldn't do it.
I like to hear what Boardman and Sherwin have to say too. They've both been there and got the shirt and I know that they talk the truth and not just say what they think how it is.

[Thor]

I don't think you need to translate that, Phil, tu va gagner, you are going to win! 

[Biff]

"Don't forget Phil, Evans comes from a track background". That'll be the track bikes with fat knobbly tyres then Paul 

[Auntie Helen]

How many times did they tell us that Kesiakoff (sp) was from a mountain-biking background???

[Karla]

On a further East African theme, "Chris Frome was born in Nairobi, Kenya, in Africa."  Yes I know that Kenya's in Africa, for crying out loud!  Do they think that cycling fans are terminally stupid?

(No, please don't anyone answer that question.)

[tiermat]

How many times did they tell us that Kesiakoff (sp) was from a mountain-biking background???

Once a minute, and again whenever something happens (like the back end sliding out on that downhill corner in he last 20K or so).

[Biff]

They're a pair of daft tw@ts who I avoid at all costs. I'd rather listen to Robert Peston.

Robert Peston and Eddy Mair. That's a commentary team I'd like to hear 

[Rainmaker]

Posted by: Mr Bunbury: Yesterday at 09:28:25 PM
  Do they think that cycling fans are terminally stupid

I think that is the trouble with the ITV4 coverage, the coverage is "dumbed down"for their opinion of the general public. 

[Si]

I think that what they do is a very hard thing to do and I'm not surprised they get tongue twisted and mess things up now and then. I know I couldn't do it.

I agree....however British sporting commentary has a long and proud history of commentators making ridiculous and ill-thought out comments in the heat of the moment, and spotting them and having a chuckle about them is all part of the rich experience.  But they are not quite up t the level of Duffers yet, Liggers and Shers just make mistakes whereas Duffers used to generate his own personal alternative reality with his comments    whatever, in both cases these 'mistakes' add another level of engagement to the race and make it better for their being there.

[Rhys W]

I think that is the trouble with the ITV4 coverage, the coverage is "dumbed down"for their opinion of the general public.

I had the misfortune to catch some live Tour coverage in the USA a couple of years ago, and it was Phil & Paul doing that. That's why it's dumbed down, and it also explains the constant reference to distances and speeds in the antiquated "miles" system.

[David Martin]

It was pointed out onthe Eurosport coverage that more than 50% of their audience are non cyclists and the only event they watch is the TdF. That is why they have so much  'dumbing down' - it is not that it is dumbed down, it is that it doesn't exclude all but the elite.

[Veloman]

So turn the volume down!

I think we have to remember they are commentating for a wider audience than just ourselves, who of course are all subject matter experts with an encyclopaedic knowledge of everything cycling related, or anything for that matter, and we could all do the job far better.

I'm just grateful I can watch it live without the pain of having to subscribe to Sky/Eurosport etc, especially as all the coverage is the same picture feed.  As for the Phil/Paul show, yes they do commentate for the USA as well and that may have an effect on the approach they take.

If not them, then who would we prefer?  I recall listening to Duffers and Kelly one year and the bits I could understand/translate were very tedious at times.

[Cudzoziemiec]

It was pointed out onthe Eurosport coverage that more than 50% of their audience are non cyclists and the only event they watch is the TdF. That is why they have so much  'dumbing down' - it is not that it is dumbed down, it is that it doesn't exclude all but the elite.

You don't have to be a 'non-cyclist' to appreciate this, just someone who doesn't follow racing. I'm sure the same happens with World Cup football, Wimbledon and Olympic athletics coverage, compared to an average league game and any other tournament.

[mattc]

So turn the volume down!

I think we have to remember they are commentating for a wider audience than just ourselves, who of course are all subject matter experts with an encyclopaedic knowledge of everything cycling related, or anything for that matter, and we could all do the job far better.

Yes, quite. (and they deliver far more intelligent comment than UK football pundits, so I'm pretty grateful.)
It's live - people make mistakes. Especially when they have to rattle on for 4 hours non-stop.

On a personal note, I was rather pleased yesterday with a comment about a rider recovering from the small-but-nasty crash.
"He's got a very big retard there!"

(Hope you're reading this, Ross!)

[Mr Larrington]

It didn't take them long to revert to their original pronunciation of Morkov

[LEE]

So turn the volume down!

I think we have to remember they are commentating for a wider audience than just ourselves, who of course are all subject matter experts with an encyclopaedic knowledge of everything cycling related, or anything for that matter, and we could all do the job far better.

I'm just grateful I can watch it live without the pain of having to subscribe to Sky/Eurosport etc, especially as all the coverage is the same picture feed.  As for the Phil/Paul show, yes they do commentate for the USA as well and that may have an effect on the approach they take.

If not them, then who would we prefer?  I recall listening to Duffers and Kelly one year and the bits I could understand/translate were very tedious at times.

Exactly my point(s).

We should remember that the YACF default position on such matters is a sort of moaning pedantry ("ha! Sherwin said that was a 105 front mech but it's clearly Dura Ace")

Ideally there wouldn't be any cycling on terrestrial TV at all, this would give the prefect opportunity for some weapons-grade moaning.  However, ITV4 came along and ruined that opportunity so it only leaves room for complaining about the adverts (which pay for the coverage to take place at all, and are an opportunity for a cuppa) and the pronunciation of some foreign names/places (which, if you asked 100 YACFers to pronounce, you'd get at least 50 different pronunciations).

Half of me wishes the coverage would be cancelled and replaced with more Big Brother live coverage, just so I could see proper moaning about the good old days of Liggett and Sherwin.

My TV remote control has 2 optional (I assume they must be optional) features of "Mute" and "Off" buttons.  I use them instead of moaning about TV programs.

Look, they get a feed from French TV, without any cues and are asked to talk about it for 5 hours on live TV.  They see 100 riders from a helicopter shot one moment and then a random group of riders from a motorcycle the next.  It strikes me as a tough job.

Like I said before, I like the coverage and it could be worse (although I wouldn't mind listening to Chris Kamara have a go at the TdF...just for the giggles)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/qGaR6hqRbWY&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/qGaR6hqRbWY&rel=1</a>

[rafletcher]

^^Wot 'e says. And just because "one" knows Kenya is in Africa, doesn't mean the totality of the audience will.

[Karla]

It seems like an extension of Bill Bryson's "London, England" phenomenon.  If their commentary also goes to America, that could explain it.

[Cudzoziemiec]

"51 minutes 59.59, that's under 52 minutes." That made me laugh.

In contrast, I find Phil's (or is it Paul's?) constant pronunciation of Denis Menchov's first name as if he were French not Russian niggling, but it's understandable - unless we expect sports commentators to be polylingual.*

As for the way one will mention "NEE-bali" only to be followed by the other's "Ni-BALi" or even "NEE-bu-li", well I'd prefer them to pick one and stay with it but I don't know which (if any) of those is correct, and even if I did it's hardly a big deal. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

*As opposed to merely multilingual - I understand one or other of the pair does speak excellent French.

[citoyen]

David Harmon read out one of my tweets on Sunday. I was most amused at his exotic pronunciation of my twitter handle.

d.

[Toady]

"He's punctured.  Mick Rogers,  it's a front wheel or a back wheel, that's why he couldn't get round the corner."

Quite sure it's not the middle wheel?

[Honest John]

"Looking into the eyes of..."

Or when the rider's got shades on

"Looking into the sunglasses of..."

Aaaargh!

[Nuncio]

In contrast, I find Phil's (or is it Paul's?) constant pronunciation of Denis Menchov's first name as if he were French not Russian niggling, but it's understandable

I think his nickname is 'Denny' - perhaps that's what they're saying rather than giving it a French slant.

[Auntie Helen]

Anyone else hear Chris Boardman say 'dick head' and then quickly correct it to 'dig in' during the piece to camera at the end of the highlights programme?

[Honest John]

Anyone else hear Chris Boardman say 'dick head' and then quickly correct it to 'dig in' during the piece to camera at the end of the highlights programme?

Hope so.