Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => Topic started by: Blodwyn Pig on 17 September, 2023, 08:57:13 am
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Currently in That France, avec le tandem, cycling long along the Loire, but not touring. Attempting to follow the various velo routes. These I find very frustrating, as the number on the route sheet, rarely corresponds with the number on the sign, then the destination will disappear from the sign altogether , and there will be a completely different number, and when looking at the route sheet, this route s nowhere near where we are. Many kms retracing and double checking.
Also I am astonished at the sheer number of bikes on these velo routes , that are e- bikes. Seeming fit healthy ( even young) individuals, and not all rental bikes either. What is the cycling world going to look like in 10 years, I think that actual non e bikes will be a cute weird niche market. I’d say that around 90-95% are e bikes. I feel quite proud to actually be using leg power only x 4 on the tandem. I can’t say this, but I am thinking this ….” lazy f#ckers.
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I agree. When I toured across the flat parts of Belgium and the Netherlands even there I saw lots of more mature cyclists using them as well as younger ones so that they make up a significant proportion of all the bikes around. They're taking over the world and slightly negate the positive aspects of cycling as far as man made climate change and exercise benefits are concerned.
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On the positive side: friends of mine who have had to adopt "e" inorder to continue their cycling would otherwise not be out on a bicycle and possibly would be out in a car.
Age is not always a defining factor either. I have no problem with responsible e-bikes and e-bikers.
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Met someone on the towpath earlier with a lovely e-bike: Rear hub motor that could pass for a Nexus, battery tastefully integrated into the downtube of a tidy looking hybrid, single-speed belt-drive transmission, disc brakes that were hopefully hydraulic. Shocking absence of lights, mudguards or luggage capability, but we can't expect miracles; this is BRITAIN. Older rider, who used the assistance sparingly as an antidote to hills and was generally loving it.
I reckon e-assist as an alternative to gears is a decent chunk of the future of cycling...
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Almost all bikes sold here are e-bikes now and I understand why - you get to your destination faster and with less sweat. As lots of people here commute by bike that’s a useful thing as on-site showers less common in smaller companies.
I have a motor but I keep it switched off for my commute except for crossing the one busy road (velomobile hard to accelerate in a hurry with my leg power alone).
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"Actual non e-bikes" have been "a cute weird niche market" for at least 70 years. There are a few exceptions worldwide, like the Netherlands, or China until about 20 years ago, but almost everywhere, bikes have long been for enthusiasts of various stripes. If electric power helps make transport more bike shaped, bike sized and bike speed, that's good.
Obviously they do partially negate some of the positive aspects of cycling, not just in the ways alfapete mentions but I'd add in the way the rider interacts with the bike (not only when riding it). These might be outweighed by the positive aspects of prolonging cycling lifetimes, but it depends what people would have done otherwise. They only really become a problem when they're too fast and allow/encourage greater recklessness, something that began when we tamed the first horse.
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Back yesterday from That France, for work.
I wanted to hire a bike for my day off on Saturday- so obviously it rained all day after being high 20s for the factory visits on Thursday and Friday.
I discovered that the Ville (Chalon sur Saone) subsidises long term hire of e-bikes for commuting residents.
I can only see this as good.
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Currently in That France, avec le tandem, cycling long along the Loire, but not touring.
What's the differene between a holiday with a bike and touring? Do you mean you were staying in one place and going for day rides?
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I agree. When I toured across the flat parts of Belgium and the Netherlands even there I saw lots of more mature cyclists using them as well as younger ones so that they make up a significant proportion of all the bikes around. They're taking over the world and slightly negate the positive aspects of cycling as far as man made climate change and exercise benefits are concerned.
I would disagree with that - I don't think they are replacing normal cycling, I think they are replacing car based journeys.
I now use an e-bike for all my commuting. It shortens the journey time by about 4 mins (31ish mins vs 35ish mins) but saves lots of time in that I don't need to get changed when I get to work, as I don't sweat as much. It's not as knackering, so I use my e-bike every day I go into work, as opposed to a couple of times a week for my normal bike. And my Garmin informs me that I use about 60 calories less on the eBike vs normal bike, but still burn a significant number of calories using the eBike.
It makes chaining trips easier - adding extra miles to an eBike journey isn't a big deal as it would be on a normal bike. Tomorrow I will do about 30 miles to, from and for work and will think nothing of it - I wouldn't attempt that on a normal bike and would have driven those miles.
That said, I do live in a reasonably cycle friendly town (Cambridge).
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Currently in That France, avec le tandem, cycling long along the Loire, but not touring.
What's the differene between a holiday with a bike and touring? Do you mean you were staying in one place and going for day rides?
Yep. Up to 90 km, my lovely stoker only started riding 4 weeks ago. Quick 55 km this morning before lunch, via a delightful terraced bar, high up, overlooking the river Loire.
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That's not a short ride for someone who only started four weeks ago!
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That's not a short ride for someone who only started four weeks ago!
No, but she is willing, and I’m up front. ;D
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I would disagree with that - I don't think they are replacing normal cycling, I think they are replacing car based journeys.
In the Netherlands they have replaced more normal cycling (both short tours on a nice day, commuting (most notably teenagers going to school) and shopping around town) than they have replaced journeys by car.
At least, that is my perception.
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I would disagree with that - I don't think they are replacing normal cycling, I think they are replacing car based journeys.
In the Netherlands they have replaced more normal cycling (both short tours on a nice day, commuting (most notably teenagers going to school) and shopping around town) than they have replaced journeys by car.
At least, that is my perception.
I can't speak for all of France but in Limoges, where the municipal bike hire scheme is more than 95% electric (due principally to the local geography, not much flat unless you follow the river; most people need to go at right angles to the river!) the e-bike is a replacement not for cars (70% of commuters!) but for buses (which have been partly electric for the last 80 years). For leisure cycling e-bikes count for a very high proportion of mtbs, particularly on organised rides. Slightly less on road rides (we are macho, ladies follow 5m behind the hubby on his racer, on an e-bike. No it's not really like that but one could be forgiven for being a little bit cynical - I hope!)
From observation of Bordeaux the flatter the town the more likely is the probability that a given bike will be assisted. If one added in e-scooters, magic wheels etc the role of the bike as we know it is very much in decline (which gives problems when user groups have to decide who is to have the ear of local politicians for influencing road transport policy - and the investment that goes with it!).
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I would disagree with that - I don't think they are replacing normal cycling, I think they are replacing car based journeys.
In the Netherlands they have replaced more normal cycling (both short tours on a nice day, commuting (most notably teenagers going to school) and shopping around town) than they have replaced journeys by car.
At least, that is my perception.
I can't speak for all of France but in Limoges, where the municipal bike hire scheme is more than 95% electric (due principally to the local geography, not much flat unless you follow the river; most people need to go at right angles to the river!) the e-bike is a replacement not for cars (70% of commuters!) but for buses (which have been partly electric for the last 80 years). For leisure cycling e-bikes count for a very high proportion of mtbs, particularly on organised rides. Slightly less on road rides (we are macho, ladies follow 5m behind the hubby on his racer, on an e-bike. No it's not really like that but one could be forgiven for being a little bit cynical - I hope!)
From observation of Bordeaux the flatter the town the more likely is the probability that a given bike will be assisted. If one added in e-scooters, magic wheels etc the role of the bike as we know it is very much in decline (which gives problems when user groups have to decide who is to have the ear of local politicians for influencing road transport policy - and the investment that goes with it!).
Interesting. I wonder if it's because in hilly towns, only cyclists have been cycling previously, and they're not going to use e-bikes, whereas in flat town, people have been using bikes for commuting and shopping and such like, rather than pay for parking, buy a car, wait for the bus, and they've no inhibitions about a cheap, reliable transport aid.
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I would disagree with that - I don't think they are replacing normal cycling, I think they are replacing car based journeys.
In the Netherlands they have replaced more normal cycling (both short tours on a nice day, commuting (most notably teenagers going to school) and shopping around town) than they have replaced journeys by car.
At least, that is my perception.
I can't speak for all of France but in Limoges, where the municipal bike hire scheme is more than 95% electric (due principally to the local geography, not much flat unless you follow the river; most people need to go at right angles to the river!) the e-bike is a replacement not for cars (70% of commuters!) but for buses (which have been partly electric for the last 80 years). For leisure cycling e-bikes count for a very high proportion of mtbs, particularly on organised rides. Slightly less on road rides (we are macho, ladies follow 5m behind the hubby on his racer, on an e-bike. No it's not really like that but one could be forgiven for being a little bit cynical - I hope!)
From observation of Bordeaux the flatter the town the more likely is the probability that a given bike will be assisted. If one added in e-scooters, magic wheels etc the role of the bike as we know it is very much in decline (which gives problems when user groups have to decide who is to have the ear of local politicians for influencing road transport policy - and the investment that goes with it!).
Interesting. I wonder if it's because in hilly towns, only cyclists have been cycling previously, and they're not going to use e-bikes, whereas in flat town, people have been using bikes for commuting and shopping and such like, rather than pay for parking, buy a car, wait for the bus, and they've no inhibitions about a cheap, reliable transport aid.
That's my observation, not an official survey! Bordeaux also has quite a decent tram system from what I could see, and fairly heavy car usage as well. An interesting comparison would be Bordeaux and Nantes (which is a good bit hillier than Bordeaux and also has fairly chaotic car circulation). But I live in Limoges!
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Interestingly, our final ride was yesterday,. We stopped off for a couple of nights in Amiens, and cycled from Amiens to Abbeville and back on the tandem. Well my stoker did us proud,as we managed a ride of 105 km!. But, same thing in this neck of the woods, 95 % e-bikes, one acoustic recumbent trike, and a few bikes. Another funny thing tho, you can spot an e-bike at 400 paces, HOW? by the clothing. E-bikers seem to wear much more substantial clothing, ie thick waterproof jackets, full gloves, and scarves, whilst I'm bashing away at the front, with a s/s YACF top,shorts and sandals and no socks. They look at me as if i'm mad. Because they put so little effort into what they are doing,they are obviously cold.
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I would disagree with that - I don't think they are replacing normal cycling, I think they are replacing car based journeys.
In the Netherlands they have replaced more normal cycling (both short tours on a nice day, commuting (most notably teenagers going to school) and shopping around town) than they have replaced journeys by car.
At least, that is my perception.
I can't speak for all of France but in Limoges, where the municipal bike hire scheme is more than 95% electric (due principally to the local geography, not much flat unless you follow the river; most people need to go at right angles to the river!) the e-bike is a replacement not for cars (70% of commuters!) but for buses (which have been partly electric for the last 80 years). For leisure cycling e-bikes count for a very high proportion of mtbs, particularly on organised rides. Slightly less on road rides (we are macho, ladies follow 5m behind the hubby on his racer, on an e-bike. No it's not really like that but one could be forgiven for being a little bit cynical - I hope!)
From observation of Bordeaux the flatter the town the more likely is the probability that a given bike will be assisted. If one added in e-scooters, magic wheels etc the role of the bike as we know it is very much in decline (which gives problems when user groups have to decide who is to have the ear of local politicians for influencing road transport policy - and the investment that goes with it!).
Interesting. I wonder if it's because in hilly towns, only cyclists have been cycling previously, and they're not going to use e-bikes, whereas in flat town, people have been using bikes for commuting and shopping and such like, rather than pay for parking, buy a car, wait for the bus, and they've no inhibitions about a cheap, reliable transport aid.
That's my observation, not an official survey! Bordeaux also has quite a decent tram system from what I could see, and fairly heavy car usage as well. An interesting comparison would be Bordeaux and Nantes (which is a good bit hillier than Bordeaux and also has fairly chaotic car circulation). But I live in Limoges!
Yep and that was my musing on your observation.
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Currently in That France, avec le tandem, cycling long along the Loire, but not touring. Attempting to follow the various velo routes. These I find very frustrating, as the number on the route sheet, rarely corresponds with the number on the sign, then the destination will disappear from the sign altogether , and there will be a completely different number, and when looking at the route sheet, this route s nowhere near where we are. Many kms retracing and double checking.
Also I am astonished at the sheer number of bikes on these velo routes , that are e- bikes. Seeming fit healthy ( even young) individuals, and not all rental bikes either. What is the cycling world going to look like in 10 years, I think that actual non e bikes will be a cute weird niche market. I’d say that around 90-95% are e bikes. I feel quite proud to actually be using leg power only x 4 on the tandem. I can’t say this, but I am thinking this ….” lazy f#ckers.
I am oft chopped down with my opinion on e bikes which is if disabled or like a couple on here where the lady had a damaged foot and couldn't have done the ride without e assist then brilliant, use the technology but (always a but) there seems a growing majority of e bike users that are fit and able bodied and are using e assist instead of complying with the expense of buying, insuring and taxing a moped. This will of course backfire with collateral damage to genuine disabled users as government will bounce on all.
I have been cycling for 70 years (I'm 76) using solo, tandem, tandem trike, recumbent trike and on one awful occasion a unicycle (it wasn't pretty) I believe that unless needed a e bike is not in the true spirit of that beautiful invention - The Bicycle