The Highlands, Glens & Western Isles - Monday, July 21st 2014

[BlackSheep]

I've now attached a GPS of the entire route (individual sections will be sent to entrants in due course) and a kml, so you can view the route using Google Earth.

[eck]

ESCA 24hr TT Clashes

Buggeration.  I had been thinking of the (local for me) ESCA 24hr TT (and no doubt there will some fancy pants foreign adventure for me to be tempted by.  Choices choices)

Hillbilly, ECSA 24 is on 21 JUNE, so you can do both.
Mersey Roads 24 finishes on 20 July, so that means I can finish it on the Sunday afternoon, drive straight up to Arran in time for the start on Monday morning. What could possibly go wrong? 

Actually, maybe I could ECE the whole thing by riding the 24, then riding up to Arran overnight. That would work, wouldn't it?
(I'd ride without valve caps so I could go that bit faster.)

[Hillbilly]

Good (a lesson never to trust internet posted information without checking!).  Although that now clashes with something else I had my eye on.

Alas, I've decided to be sensible and not get caught up in the frenzy over this event.  It is just under a year to go.  If there are places available when I know what else is  on, then I might enter.  Or I might not.  As it's offered as a permanent I don't see this as a particular loss (although I will be envious when I read the accounts and see the photos - North West Scotland is gorgeous in the right weather).

[321up]

"Much of the route has plenty of places to stop and eat as you progress, However the stretch between Durness and Lairg is spartan in every sense - places to eat are very few and far between, I suggest that you consider carring enough sustainence during this part of the ride"

I assumed we would be carrying a stock of provisions to tide us over between watering holes.  With up to 60 cyclist raiding the possibly small community shops on route I wondered about pre-ordering provisions, or at least pre warning them of the potential demand.  I suspect that one difficulty will be getting to the stores when they are open.  It would be a good idea to collectively build up a list of stores and their opening times.

[mattc]

We've entered! 

We will worry about the minor details such as annual leave, ferry's and accommodation later!

Looks like it will be 600k DIY's to Scotland and back.

_{(having worked out who you are, bit slow, sorry ... )}

That's amazing. Google actually comes as 600k dead to Brodick!

I think events over 2000km get a 200km/day speed. Oh hang on:
"or events from 1900 to 2499 km - 10kph; and
for events over 2499 km, 200 km per day"

 So a 600+1300+600 ECE could be quite attractive if you can juggle it right ...

[marcusjb]

You are a terrible influence Matt.

Starts on a Monday yes? So gives a weekend at either end of it. That means only a couple of extra days leave and you could make a real tour of it. Hmmmmmmm.

[simonp]

Under ECE rules the 1300 still has to be done at 12kph, though. So you have to ride a 600k, ride a 1300k at BRM pace, and then ride another 600k. The two 600s can be ridden very slowly but it seems tough to me.

[Dave_C]

I've entered, I hope there are still places left.

[321up]

Under ECE rules the 1300 still has to be done at 12kph, though. So you have to ride a 600k, ride a 1300k at BRM pace, and then ride another 600k. The two 600s can be ridden very slowly but it seems tough to me.

So there may be an advantage of doing one or both of the 600km's as an ECE, then the lower speed kicks in.   

EDIT:  A more sensible approach would be 3 x 200km on the way up, a day or two rest before the 1300km, then a 600km ECE home.

[BlackSheep]

I've entered, I hope there are still places left.

You're in - Just a few places left.

[Greenbank]

Under ECE rules the 1300 still has to be done at 12kph, though. So you have to ride a 600k, ride a 1300k at BRM pace, and then ride another 600k. The two 600s can be ridden very slowly but it seems tough to me.

So there may be an advantage of doing one or both of the 600km's as an ECE, then the lower speed kicks in.   

EDIT:  A more sensible approach would be 3 x 200km on the way up, a day or two rest before the 1300km, then a 600km ECE home.

Indeed.

600+1300 gives you the magic 1900 and 10kph from the start of the 600.

The 1300 has a 12kph min average speed so that's fixed at 108h20m.

But 1900 at 10kph = 190 hours.

So you'd have 81h40m to do the 600 up to the start. That's more than enough time to do a leisurely 50 hour 600 and then have a day and a bit (31h40m) to rest before the start of the 1300.

Gets even better if you do 600+1300+600 as you'll have 12.5 days (300 hours at 200km per day) to do the whole thing. A fixed 108h20m for the 1300km calendar portion leaves 95h50m to do each 600 either side of it.

[mattc]

Or do it as separate 600, 1300 400, 200 [with however many rest-days inbetween as you want]

SR in one trip!

But I think a 1900k (or longer) ride on one's results list would be cooler.

Think I'll book the train both ways and consider an ECE +600 leg home from Ardrossan. (You can always DNS that bit thanks to the wacky wonderful ECE rules.)

[simonp]

Greenbank's gone and done it now - working it out shows that the 600s can be done at a very easy pace. 95h to ride a 600k is just ridiculously easy. Though on the way back, I suspect it won't seem quite that way.

It is about 630km to mum's by direct route. I could probably expect that to be 650 once adding a few controls on the way. So, add 1300km on to make 2600km which is 13 full days at 200km/d. I could post change of clothes to mum's to have clean kit (and have it washed for the return) and stay there before and after the 1300k. So the 650s either side can be done at 6.5kph or so.

 

[Greenbank]

Greenbank's gone and done it now - working it out shows that the 600s can be done at a very easy pace. 95h to ride a 600k is just ridiculously easy. Though on the way back, I suspect it won't seem quite that way.

Even better you can make it lopsided. Give yourself 80h for the first 600 and then have 110h for the final 600.

A 2600km ride would be very audacious and worthy of a very big chapeau.

[mattc]

I think to maintain the spirit of Mr Sheep's fine event, any ECE leg should include a ferry crossing.

[321up]

The risk with an outbound ECE is that you loose the points if you DNF on the calendar.  A home bound ECE carries less risk if you DNF the calendar if you have a backup DIY up your sleve to ride instead (assuming this is permitted?)

[Hillbilly]

I think it is:

• DNF ECE, can still get recognised for calendar event if you finish it
• DNF calendar event, you automatically DNF the ECE

regardless of whether the ECE is in relation to extension before or after the event.

Of course, every time riders take advantage of this loophole, a kitten dies in order to maintain balance in the universe.  Two kittens if a  tandem is involved.  The spirit of audax is an elemental force that runs through the cosmos.

[mattc]

I think it is:

• DNF ECE, can still get recognised for calendar event if you finish it
• DNF calendar event, you automatically DNF the ECE

regardless of whether the ECE is in relation to extension before or after the event.

Of course, every time riders take advantage of this loophole, a kitten dies in order to maintain balance in the universe.  Two kittens if a  tandem is involved.  The spirit of audax is an elemental force that runs through the cosmos.

+1 !

This all makes ECE legs to the START of calendar events rather tricky, as 321 has identified. They were originally conceived as shortish rides to/from events that were quite near to your house - I think - so things* get a bit weird when you start riding 'proper' distances to/from.

Luckily the might of The Holy 50% Rule makes sure the space-time continuum doesn't get too far out of whack (if you ignore a few kittens.)


*No, not The Things.

[Reg.T]

In terms of going over 2500km, does it state anywhere that this is available for ECEs? (The ECE FAQ on here only states the 10kph up to 2499km, I think).

And even if it does, my understanding is that it would be 200km on every day of the ride, not 200km/day average over the period of the ride:

sorry I don't know the answer but would like to echo the question for the "200km per day" time limit obtained on >2500km - is it 200km per day average or >200km every day. (Have asked before I think but don't think there was a definitive answer.)

It must be >200km per day, or you wouldn't get your 2 points per day.

Keith

[Greenbank]

In terms of going over 2500km, does it state anywhere that this is available for ECEs? (The ECE FAQ on here only states the 10kph up to 2499km, I think).

Just ask Martin, it was only recently he updated that from saying 14.3kph based on a question I had about ECEing a 600 into a 1000.

Although it does kind of depend on:-

And even if it does, my understanding is that it would be 200km on every day of the ride, not 200km/day average over the period of the ride:

sorry I don't know the answer but would like to echo the question for the "200km per day" time limit obtained on >2500km - is it 200km per day average or >200km every day. (Have asked before I think but don't think there was a definitive answer.)

It must be >200km per day, or you wouldn't get your 2 points per day.

Keith

Which is interesting, I'd assumed it was just another way of saying 8.33kph rather than a strict "you must do at least 200km per day".

If that was enforced then it'd mean you get a maximum of 72h for the 600's to/from the 1300.

I wonder what Marcus did on his extravaganza? Did he ever do <200km in a day?

[simonp]

If that's the rule, that makes ECEing this much harder than riding a 2600k DIY.

[jsabine]

Doesn't teethgrinder tell a tale of making his way round these fair isles (Grand Triangle I think), getting to Newcastle, deciding to pack, and getting  the train home?

After a week back at work he realised he was still in time by virtue of the 200km a day rule, so got the train back to Newcastle and completed the following weekend.

Only works if it's average, not continuous ...

[mattc]

I've just looked that ride up! in 1998 he rode it without validation. So we're no closer to an answer ...

[Reg.T]

If it is 200/day, you may also need extra PoP, e.g first controls are at 69km and 249km (Tobermory), so if you only got to Oban on day 1 (210km) you'd presumably need PoP there for the ECE but not the Cal. 

[mattc]

If it is 200/day, you may also need extra PoP, e.g first controls are at 69km and 249km (Tobermory), so if you only got to Oban on day 1 (210km) you'd presumably need PoP there for the ECE but not the Cal. 

Yes. Which would be ridiculous, IMO!

ECE really does stretch our rules, perhaps best not to look too hard ...

(click to show/hide)

The first rule of intermediate control times not being enforced is not telling anybody that intermediate control times are not enforced.

Unless your Org decides they are. It's one of those conversations best avoided really...

I'm also not entirely happy with the 200/day min every day interpretation. It almost makes 10kph an easier target on longer rides, cos of the extra flexibility. Not for me to say of course.

Another thing: we'll only do (probably!) 210km on the first day. What if you started a long perm at 6pm? Does the 200k/day rule become 200k-per-24hours?!? This seems creakier and creakier ...